I'm starting to wonder if the West coast of Scotland should also have a separate referendum to remain in the UK. Many of us are of Gaelic descent and we all know where Gaelic comes from. Maybe the West of Scotland wants to remain under British rule or join up with Dublin? We can't be described as Scots in any meaningful sense. Culturally we're more Irish or English than Scottish.
So if people are arguing that Berwick should be given a vote to rejoin Scotland, should Edinburgh be given a vote to rejoin England like it was in 1237?
It was not part of England. Methinks you have entered the land of fantasy here. Berwick , on the other hand, has every right to be given the chance to rejoin Scotland.
You're being pedantic. But, if you want to discuss these relationships, Scotland joined England and co by consent, the Orkneys and Shetlands were sold to Scotland by a Norwegian king. Some would say that gives them a stronger case for independence than Scotland.
Well since they were Scottish before the Norwegians took them by force.....
Who knows what might happen if the Nats win. Due to the great uncertainty and possibly social unrest, more than one region bordering the UK may decide to stay a part of it for the stability it provides The most likely part of Scotland to hold a snap referenfum vote and devide to stay in the UK is The Shetlands. The Shetlanders are in a very strong position and nobody is going to argue with them if the chose this path.
Maybe not in a currency Union, but I have a bet going elsewhere that there will at least be negotiations on one, even if it doesn't happen in the end........but we will still be using sterling, in the short/medium term at least. What else did anyone think we'd use?
Use Sterling yes, but it'd still be a separate currency from that of rUK, so it's value we can only speculate on.
Nah.....Scotland did not join the Union by mutual consent.....of the populations of either country. Scotland joined the Union because of the Alien Act 1705 and the back-handers to some members of the Scottish Parliament, who were making sure they'd be OK...so not a lot different to Orkney and Shetland, really.
Fair enough, Can't trust politicians, or kings and aristocrats, wherever they come from.
That's my ancestors you're talking about! They were just trying to expand their property portfolio. I don't see the problem.
And gave us great seafaring skills, something that the Scots have excelled in ever since. That is the beauty of being a mongrel race, we take the best from our various antecedents and mould it into something new.
And gave us great seafaring skills, something that the Scots have excelled in ever since. That is the beauty of being a mongrel race, we take the best from our various antecedents and mould it into something new.
Shame more of us didn't sail today. We must be one the people who take advantage our surroundings less than any other. English folk have the good sense to come up for sailing, skiing and the outdoors generally but most of the Scots don't have a clue!
It was not part of England. Methinks you have entered the land of fantasy here. Berwick , on the other hand, has every right to be given the chance to rejoin Scotland.
It was part of Northumbria which was recognised as part of England in the Anglo-Scotish treaty of York 1237. But maybe Edinburgh was not part of Northumbria at that point. Apologies if I'm mistaken.
Well since they were Scottish before the Norwegians took them by force.....
Thought you said they were Picts. We should remember Scotland did not become a country by entirely peacable means, maybe if there's a yes vote, areas that voted no might say their not Scottish, so are staying in the UK.
I'm starting to wonder if the West coast of Scotland should also have a separate referendum to remain in the UK. Many of us are of Gaelic descent and we all know where Gaelic comes from. Maybe the West of Scotland wants to remain under British rule or join up with Dublin? We can't be described as Scots in any meaningful sense. Culturally we're more Irish or English than Scottish.
Thought you said they were Picts. We should remember Scotland did not become a country by entirely peacable means, maybe if there's a yes vote, areas that voted no might say their not Scottish, so are staying in the UK.
Thought you said they were Picts. We should remember Scotland did not become a country by entirely peacable means, maybe if there's a yes vote, areas that voted no might say their not Scottish, so are staying in the UK.
Aye and maybe Nessie will decide to move south for tax reasons.
It was part of Northumbria which was recognised as part of England in the Anglo-Scotish treaty of York 1237. But maybe Edinburgh was not part of Northumbria at that point. Apologies if I'm mistaken.
"Edin", the root of the city's name, is most likely of Brittonic Celtic origin, from the Cumbric language or a variation of it that would have been spoken by the earliest known people of the area, an Iron Age tribe known to the Romans as the Votadini, and latterly in sub-Roman history as the Gododdin. It appears to derive from the place name Eidyn mentioned in the Old Welsh epic poem Y Gododdin.[12][13][14]
The poem names Din Eidyn as a hill fort (Din meaning "dun") in the territory of the Gododdin.[15] The change in nomenclature, from Din Eidyn to Edinburgh, reflects changes in the local language from Cumbric to Old English, the Germanic language of the Anglian kingdom of Bernicia that permeated the area from the mid-7th century and is regarded as the ancestor of modern Scots. The Celtic element din was dropped and replaced by the Old English burh.[16] The first documentary evidence of the medieval burgh is a royal charter, c.1124–1127, by King David I granting a toft in "burgo meo de Edenesburg" to the Priory of Dunfermline.[17]
""STERLING A MILLSTONE ROUND SCOTLAND'S NECK" SAYS SALMOND
Speaking at the Centre of European Policy Studies in Brussels before his visit to the United States Alex Salmond MSP, Leader of the Opposition in the Scottish Parliament, outlined why he thought sterling was damaging to Scotland.
His speech was part of a visit to Brussels for a series of meetings. Mr Salmond visited Scotland House and Scotland Europa, and also met M Giovanni Ravasio, Director General of Economics and Finance for the European Commission, with whom he discussed the issue of Scottish bank notes.
In his speech, entitled 'Scotland in Europe', Mr Salmond said:
"Scotland is a trading nation and our main trading partner is the EU. At present, over 60% of our manufactured exports are to the EU, and it is to Europe that we must look to secure Scottish prosperity and Scottish jobs.
"Businesses in Scotland recognise this simple fact, and that is why Scottish business people are more pro-euro than their counterparts in any other part of the UK. To compete successfully, to protect and develop markets, and to secure Scottish jobs we should join the Euro.
"At present, sterling is seriously overvalued and according to the Scottish Council for Development and Industry: 'the certainty remains that the continuing strength of the pound is hitting business hard'. A recent SCDI survey of Scottish exporters found that the high value of sterling adversely affected 87% of all businesses surveyed; that 69% lost exports; and 31% said it had led to redundancies.
"Parties, like the Tories, that cling to the British fallacy of 'splendid isolation' are not supporting Scotland's economic interests. Indeed by their backward-looking attitudes to Europe and the Euro, the Tories have become the anti-business party in Scotland.
"And Scotland's interest involves joining the Euro sooner rather than later. For many years now, the pound sterling has been a millstone round Scotland's neck. Sterling is costing Scotland jobs and prosperity in manufacturing, agriculture and tourism. Yet far from addressing the high value of sterling, the Bank of England push up interest rates to 5.5%, putting more pressure on exports and jobs.
"This is economic policy made in the south-east of England by the south-east of England and for the south-east of England. An independent Scotland, positively in Europe and in the Euro, is the real future for the people of Scotland. The SNP want to see Scotland fulfil its destiny and its potential as a full and active member of the EU - we cannot allow ourselves to be held back by clinging on to sterling." "
Shetland (/ˈʃɛtlənd/; Scottish Gaelic: Sealtainn), also called the Shetland Islands, is a subarctic archipelago of Scotland that lies north-east of mainland Britain.
The islands' motto, which appears on the Council's coat of arms, is Með lögum skal land byggja. This Icelandic phrase is taken from Njáls saga and means "By law shall the land be built up".
The expanding population of Scandinavia led to a shortage of available resources and arable land there and led to a period of Viking expansion, the Norse gradually shifting their attention from plundering to invasion.[43] Shetland was colonised during the late 8th and 9th centuries,the fate of the existing indigenous population being uncertain.
"Edin", the root of the city's name, is most likely of Brittonic Celtic origin, from the Cumbric language or a variation of it that would have been spoken by the earliest known people of the area, an Iron Age tribe known to the Romans as the Votadini, and latterly in sub-Roman history as the Gododdin. It appears to derive from the place name Eidyn mentioned in the Old Welsh epic poem Y Gododdin.[12][13][14]
The poem names Din Eidyn as a hill fort (Din meaning "dun") in the territory of the Gododdin.[15] The change in nomenclature, from Din Eidyn to Edinburgh, reflects changes in the local language from Cumbric to Old English, the Germanic language of the Anglian kingdom of Bernicia that permeated the area from the mid-7th century and is regarded as the ancestor of modern Scots. The Celtic element din was dropped and replaced by the Old English burh.[16] The first documentary evidence of the medieval burgh is a royal charter, c.1124–1127, by King David I granting a toft in "burgo meo de Edenesburg" to the Priory of Dunfermline.[17]
Wiki
Thanks.
I've done some more reading and it seems Edinburgh did leave Northumbria sometime between 800AD and 1087 so before the 1237 treaty. So ignore my previous comment
Comments
In the West End of Glasgow we were actually I think you'll find.
It was not part of England. Methinks you have entered the land of fantasy here. Berwick , on the other hand, has every right to be given the chance to rejoin Scotland.
Well since they were Scottish before the Norwegians took them by force.....
But they want to be Scottish and have said so
That's my ancestors you're talking about! They were just trying to expand their property portfolio. I don't see the problem.
Really did it spring out of the ether in the Middle Ages. You seem to be mixing up geopolitical with geographic
Use Sterling yes, but it'd still be a separate currency from that of rUK, so it's value we can only speculate on.
Fair enough, Can't trust politicians, or kings and aristocrats, wherever they come from.
Nope, the genetic markers in the northern isles are exactly the same as the rest of Scotland.
Got a map of the neolithic country[ of Scotland?
Shame more of us didn't sail today. We must be one the people who take advantage our surroundings less than any other. English folk have the good sense to come up for sailing, skiing and the outdoors generally but most of the Scots don't have a clue!
Yeah but it's pretty heavy.
It was part of Northumbria which was recognised as part of England in the Anglo-Scotish treaty of York 1237. But maybe Edinburgh was not part of Northumbria at that point. Apologies if I'm mistaken.
Thought you said they were Picts. We should remember Scotland did not become a country by entirely peacable means, maybe if there's a yes vote, areas that voted no might say their not Scottish, so are staying in the UK.
And, of course, Dublin was a Viking enclave.
Who do you think the Picts were?
Aye and maybe Nessie will decide to move south for tax reasons.
"Edin", the root of the city's name, is most likely of Brittonic Celtic origin, from the Cumbric language or a variation of it that would have been spoken by the earliest known people of the area, an Iron Age tribe known to the Romans as the Votadini, and latterly in sub-Roman history as the Gododdin. It appears to derive from the place name Eidyn mentioned in the Old Welsh epic poem Y Gododdin.[12][13][14]
The poem names Din Eidyn as a hill fort (Din meaning "dun") in the territory of the Gododdin.[15] The change in nomenclature, from Din Eidyn to Edinburgh, reflects changes in the local language from Cumbric to Old English, the Germanic language of the Anglian kingdom of Bernicia that permeated the area from the mid-7th century and is regarded as the ancestor of modern Scots. The Celtic element din was dropped and replaced by the Old English burh.[16] The first documentary evidence of the medieval burgh is a royal charter, c.1124–1127, by King David I granting a toft in "burgo meo de Edenesburg" to the Priory of Dunfermline.[17]
Wiki
And of course the Dalriada question as well. Scotland has got enclaves and dependencies flying out it's arse!
""STERLING A MILLSTONE ROUND SCOTLAND'S NECK" SAYS SALMOND
Speaking at the Centre of European Policy Studies in Brussels before his visit to the United States Alex Salmond MSP, Leader of the Opposition in the Scottish Parliament, outlined why he thought sterling was damaging to Scotland.
His speech was part of a visit to Brussels for a series of meetings. Mr Salmond visited Scotland House and Scotland Europa, and also met M Giovanni Ravasio, Director General of Economics and Finance for the European Commission, with whom he discussed the issue of Scottish bank notes.
In his speech, entitled 'Scotland in Europe', Mr Salmond said:
"Scotland is a trading nation and our main trading partner is the EU. At present, over 60% of our manufactured exports are to the EU, and it is to Europe that we must look to secure Scottish prosperity and Scottish jobs.
"Businesses in Scotland recognise this simple fact, and that is why Scottish business people are more pro-euro than their counterparts in any other part of the UK. To compete successfully, to protect and develop markets, and to secure Scottish jobs we should join the Euro.
"At present, sterling is seriously overvalued and according to the Scottish Council for Development and Industry: 'the certainty remains that the continuing strength of the pound is hitting business hard'. A recent SCDI survey of Scottish exporters found that the high value of sterling adversely affected 87% of all businesses surveyed; that 69% lost exports; and 31% said it had led to redundancies.
"Parties, like the Tories, that cling to the British fallacy of 'splendid isolation' are not supporting Scotland's economic interests. Indeed by their backward-looking attitudes to Europe and the Euro, the Tories have become the anti-business party in Scotland.
"And Scotland's interest involves joining the Euro sooner rather than later. For many years now, the pound sterling has been a millstone round Scotland's neck. Sterling is costing Scotland jobs and prosperity in manufacturing, agriculture and tourism. Yet far from addressing the high value of sterling, the Bank of England push up interest rates to 5.5%, putting more pressure on exports and jobs.
"This is economic policy made in the south-east of England by the south-east of England and for the south-east of England. An independent Scotland, positively in Europe and in the Euro, is the real future for the people of Scotland. The SNP want to see Scotland fulfil its destiny and its potential as a full and active member of the EU - we cannot allow ourselves to be held back by clinging on to sterling." "
Sure?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shetland
Shetland (/ˈʃɛtlənd/; Scottish Gaelic: Sealtainn), also called the Shetland Islands, is a subarctic archipelago of Scotland that lies north-east of mainland Britain.
The islands' motto, which appears on the Council's coat of arms, is Með lögum skal land byggja. This Icelandic phrase is taken from Njáls saga and means "By law shall the land be built up".
The expanding population of Scandinavia led to a shortage of available resources and arable land there and led to a period of Viking expansion, the Norse gradually shifting their attention from plundering to invasion.[43] Shetland was colonised during the late 8th and 9th centuries, the fate of the existing indigenous population being uncertain.
I've done some more reading and it seems Edinburgh did leave Northumbria sometime between 800AD and 1087 so before the 1237 treaty. So ignore my previous comment