When you have the facilities to VT it is just damn lazy poor radio to put back to back. I agree audiences are not great at noght but at least put some effort into it. Surely with 10pm-5am sponsored by Mcdonalds there must be some money in the kitty....I also wonder is 5am-6am live, I bet it is VT.... Local is not the be all these days..in past days when Pirate did have well know personality presenters it would do ok but the names on air are nothing special, quite run of the mill in my humble opinion. radio on the cheap and it sounds it......
Up until last year, I would have said the same thing, but it turns out, in some time that I spent with Radio Plymouth that listeners do not like voice tracking. They prefer back to back music over a voice tracked programme. I would never have called that.
Oh and by the way 5am to 6am is live. Let's face it, it wouldn't make much sense to voice track the Monday 5am hour on Friday morning, would it? Radio Cornwall is live at the same time, hence why Pirate FM is also live at that time.
Oh and by the way 5am to 6am is live. Let's face it, it wouldn't make much sense to voice track the Monday 5am hour on Friday morning, would it? Radio Cornwall is live at the same time, hence why Pirate FM is also live at that time.
5am-10am is a long time for a Breakfast show. Most stations that do 5am-10am voicetrack the first hour. The Pirate FM Public File states that two hours of daytime output is automated; 2pm-3pm is one but which is the other?
Like others, I think Heart will do just fine in Cornwall. It's had no problems in other areas where local identity is important, in particular North Wales.
Like others, I think Heart will do just fine in Cornwall. It's had no problems in other areas where local identity is important, in particular North Wales.
Thanks to bespoke output for the Welsh speaking part of the former Champion 103 TSA.
Global have acknowledged that Cornwall should have at least one local show at drivetime, although they could've simply networked the current Devon drive.
I think the arguments about Pirate's advantage here have got slightly confused. I won't deny that Heart WILL do well in Cornwall, as it has in Devon and Dorset. But, as an established heritage station I think Pirate will maintain the upper hand.
As for automation at off peak times, it makes perfect business sense in a market like Cornwall to do this. As others have suggested, there is nothing to say Pirate won't extend some live hours if they think there's something to be gained.
I think you're underestimating Global a bit. Heart Cornwall will still be able to drop in local news, travel, info and links for the county by smart networking. These are the essential local elements for the under-44s, Heart's target audience.
I think you're underestimating the local feeling around here. And I think Global have not understood a very important dynamic round here. It's amazing how many people come down here to Cornwall to live, even if they've been on holiday before, and totally underestimate and do not expect the huge difference in attitudes around here. It takes people a while to adjust. Some parts of Devon are very much the same. It's something that most people thought was dying out, but it doesn't seem to be the case. No amount of marketing can overcome that.
5am-10am is a long time for a Breakfast show. Most stations that do 5am-10am voicetrack the first hour. The Pirate FM Public File states that two hours of daytime output is automated; 2pm-3pm is one but which is the other?
Like others, I think Heart will do just fine in Cornwall. It's had no problems in other areas where local identity is important, in particular North Wales.
I'm not sure how accurate the Public File is. James Martin used to be 9am to 2pm rather than 10am to 2pm, with Neil Caddy doing a 5am to 9am breakfast show. I will check what they're currently doing, but last time I heard it, my strong impression was the 5am hour was live.
I think you're underestimating the local feeling around here. And I think Global have not understood a very important dynamic round here. It's amazing how many people come down here to Cornwall to live, even if they've been on holiday before, and totally underestimate and do not expect the huge difference in attitudes around here. It takes people a while to adjust. Some parts of Devon are very much the same. It's something that most people thought was dying out, but it doesn't seem to be the case. No amount of marketing can overcome that.
However, all the summer tourists that are used to listening to heart in other parts of the country will, I guess, continue to tune in when in Cornwall. If you were the guy running the tourist attraction where would you advertise your business? The station that the tourists are familiar with? That's got to hurt Pirate somehow?
I think you're underestimating the local feeling around here. And I think Global have not understood a very important dynamic round here. It's amazing how many people come down here to Cornwall to live, even if they've been on holiday before, and totally underestimate and do not expect the huge difference in attitudes around here. It takes people a while to adjust. Some parts of Devon are very much the same. It's something that most people thought was dying out, but it doesn't seem to be the case. No amount of marketing can overcome that.
if heart can do well in N west wales its got no problem down there!
However, all the summer tourists that are used to listening to heart in other parts of the country will, I guess, continue to tune in when in Cornwall. If you were the guy running the tourist attraction where would you advertise your business? The station that the tourists are familiar with? That's got to hurt Pirate somehow?
You might have a point, but those tourists don't tick Rajar diaries, and Heart will have no accurate listening figures of who those visitors are to show the guy who runs the attraction.
Up until last year, I would have said the same thing, but it turns out, in some time that I spent with Radio Plymouth that listeners do not like voice tracking. They prefer back to back music over a voice tracked programme. I would never have called that.
Oh and by the way 5am to 6am is live. Let's face it, it wouldn't make much sense to voice track the Monday 5am hour on Friday morning, would it? Radio Cornwall is live at the same time, hence why Pirate FM is also live at that time.
If VT is done properly, with time checks etc it can sound totally live and nobody would notice any difference. |It is when it is done quickly and cheaply and using many generic links that it sounds awful.
You might have a point, but those tourists don't tick Rajar diaries, and Heart will have no accurate listening figures of who those visitors are to show the guy who runs the attraction.
Exactly - no radio station targets tourists as they don't show up in Rajar.
Heart is aimed at 25 to 44-year-old women. And they like Take That and I've Had The Time Of My Life whether they're in Cornwall, London or Norfolk. They really don't care where the presenter is - but even if they do, they won't be able to tell Toby's in London for all the split links he'll do in the early days. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Heart sounds more local than Pirate at first. WE know he's in London, but most normal listeners won't, and even if they do they won't care as long as he plays their favourite songs, which he will.
I think you're underestimating the local feeling around here. And I think Global have not understood a very important dynamic round here. No amount of marketing can overcome that.
So if local pride is so strong, why has Atlantic performed so badly?
People listen to a radio station because they like what it sounds like, not because of where the studios are. Atlantic's as local as you can get, but the people of Cornwall clearly don't care because they're not listening to it.
If VT is done properly, with time checks etc it can sound totally live and nobody would notice any difference. |It is when it is done quickly and cheaply and using many generic links that it sounds awful.
Sorry, but you can tell the difference. The energy is lacking in recorded material, compared to live material. It's not possible to capture the live energy in a recorded link or programme. It's a subtle difference, but it is detectable.
The only time that energy can be present in recorded form, is in a recording of an actual live transmission. Otherwise, that energy just cannot be manufactured for pre-recorded material.
So if local pride is so strong, why has Atlantic performed so badly?
71,000 listeners out of 455,000 in the Total Survey Area? That's hardly bad, compared to both Radio Cornwall and Pirate FM. Where they more significantly underperform is on average hours per listener per week. 6 hours for Atlantic compared to 10 hours for Pirate and 12 hours for BBC Radio Cornwall. As far as ratings went, they were performing relatively well, even with room for improvement.
What let Atlantic down? Basically, revenue. Not making enough of it to cover the costs. My suspicion, based upon experience, is that they were basically trying to undercut Pirate FM by being cheaper, without actually having done the sums to make sure they were making a profit.
Don't forget, BBC Radio Cornwall has been around since 1983, Pirate FM since 1992. There was room in the market for Atlantic, but there was very little margin for error. Add to that tough economic conditions since 2008, and really that just about sums it up.
People listen to a radio station because they like what it sounds like, not because of where the studios are. Atlantic's as local as you can get, but the people of Cornwall clearly don't care because they're not listening to it.
As I said, 71,000 listeners out of 455,000, doesn't sound like people aren't listening to it, to my eyes and ears. I'd hear Atlantic being played in a number of local shops. So people were listening, they're just weren't listening to it for any prolongued length of time. Atlantic hadn't been failing to get listeners in the past couple of years, in fact its audience had been growing, very slowly, but it had been growing.
There's a lot of dynamics at play in Devon and Cornwall, that do not exist anywhere else in the UK. I've lived down here for 39 years, all my life. I've seen them every day, no matter what I might be doing. Doesn't matter where else in the country I go, for business or holiday, no set of dynamics I've encountered ever comes close to the passion, intensity, and sometimes, downright hostility to England and London that is present in some parts of Cornwall. I find some of it really shameful, but I know that it exists, and I know that Global haven't factored those dynamics in to their plans.
It doesn't matter if you've not encountered anything similar in your area, this is how it is down here, and there is nothing Global can do in terms of marketing, that will change that.
Let's make no mistake. Global WILL have a strategy for Cornwall - but the bits we actually know about (separate drive, news etc) is just the tip of the iceberg. There'll be loads of strategic stuff going on behind the scenes, and doubltess a big visible presence this summer. That's how Global do things. Then, once any initial moaning about the changes has happened, Heart will be just as much a part of daily life as BBC Cornwall or Pirate.
The county is just about big enough to sustain two commercial players, provided the wider advertising market recovers.
Hailing from Penzance myself, and having lived there up until a year ago, I feel confident in saying that Cityprod is overestimating Cornish patriotism somewhat.
He's made lots of sweeping statements about 'Cornish pride' with little more than weak anecdotal evidence to back it up.
Yes, there are people down there fiercely proud of their Cornish roots, just as there are proud Mancunians, Londoners, Scots, Welsh etc... It is not something that is exclusive to Cornwall, though it may seem more prevalent in a small County where not much else happens.
What Cityprod, and anyone else adopting the 'Cornish-people-won't-stand-for-a-local-station-being-piped-in-from-London argument, seem to be overlooking is that Heart will actually be something of a unique presence in Cornwall. This will be the first time a semi-national station has been heard on FM in the County, and rather than rejecting it, I imagine many will give it a go on that novelty alone. We are talking about commercial radio listeners here after all.
Hailing from Penzance myself, and having lived there up until a year ago, I feel confident in saying that Cityprod is overestimating Cornish patriotism somewhat.
He's made lots of sweeping statements about 'Cornish pride' with little more than weak anecdotal evidence to back it up.
Yes, there are people down there fiercely proud of their Cornish roots, just as there are proud Mancunians, Londoners, Scots, Welsh etc... It is not something that is exclusive to Cornwall, though it may seem more prevalent in a small County where not much else happens.
Well, when I've encountered these feelings, expressed to me in places like Penzance, Torpoint, Bude and many other points in between, at varying levels from mild to positively vitriolic, I always get the impression that people underestimate it, and if I were Global right now, I'd rather over-estimate negative feeling against you than underestimate it
You might see it as anecdotal, to me, I've heard it straight from people's mouths. It's real. And I'll tell it like I see it and hear it.
What Cityprod, and anyone else adopting the 'Cornish-people-won't-stand-for-a-local-station-being-piped-in-from-London argument, seem to be overlooking is that Heart will actually be something of a unique presence in Cornwall. This will be the first time a semi-national station has been heard on FM in the County, and rather than rejecting it, I imagine many will give it a go on that novelty alone. We are talking about commercial radio listeners here after all.
Unique, yes, but I think it compares very unfavourably to Radio Cornwall and Pirate FM. Not merely in the localness department, but from listening to the Plymouth version on DAB, the coverage of local travel, weather and news is very poor compared to other stations. The music mix is ok, but the station is just lacking in content value. Pirate FM is much better content wise, and Radio Cornwall is very strong on content. That's why I don't think they've got a chance, without seriously improving the product.
Unique, yes, but I think it compares very unfavourably to Radio Cornwall and Pirate FM. Not merely in the localness department, but from listening to the Plymouth version on DAB, the coverage of local travel, weather and news is very poor compared to other stations. The music mix is ok, but the station is just lacking in content value. Pirate FM is much better content wise, and Radio Cornwall is very strong on content. That's why I don't think they've got a chance, without seriously improving the product.
Heart are not going to do live and local all day for Cornwall, it wouldn't make any money.
Pirate FM made an operating loss for the year to 30 September 2010 (the last available figures - source: Companies House). The advertising revenue isn't there to support live and local round the clock, especially since the COI funding was slashed in June 2010.
As are most UKRD stations, its dire, they dont even do VT...back tio back music..cheap and nasty.
Hardly most - 6 stations (2BR, The Bee, KL FM. Mix96, Spirit FM, Pirate FM) whereas both Wessex FM and Minster FM VT or live until midnight, Sun FM, Star NE, Stray FM, Yorkshire Coast Radio and Spire FM until 10pm, and 96.4 The Eagle to 8pm while Star Cambridge has variable extents of VT/live evening broadcasting. Think the extent of evening broadcasting depends on how profitable or not the station is.
Ahead of Heart's arrival next Monday, Pirate have introduced new imaging this morning. Several new cuts and remixes to supplement the existing Wise Buddah package. There are also new mixes of the news and travel beds and several new trails along the Love Cornwall, Love Pirate FM theme.
Ahead of Heart's arrival next Monday, Pirate have introduced new imaging this morning. Several new cuts and remixes to supplement the existing Wise Buddah package. There are also new mixes of the news and travel beds and several new trails along the Love Cornwall, Love Pirate FM theme.
Comments
Up until last year, I would have said the same thing, but it turns out, in some time that I spent with Radio Plymouth that listeners do not like voice tracking. They prefer back to back music over a voice tracked programme. I would never have called that.
Oh and by the way 5am to 6am is live. Let's face it, it wouldn't make much sense to voice track the Monday 5am hour on Friday morning, would it? Radio Cornwall is live at the same time, hence why Pirate FM is also live at that time.
5am-10am is a long time for a Breakfast show. Most stations that do 5am-10am voicetrack the first hour. The Pirate FM Public File states that two hours of daytime output is automated; 2pm-3pm is one but which is the other?
Like others, I think Heart will do just fine in Cornwall. It's had no problems in other areas where local identity is important, in particular North Wales.
Thanks to bespoke output for the Welsh speaking part of the former Champion 103 TSA.
Global have acknowledged that Cornwall should have at least one local show at drivetime, although they could've simply networked the current Devon drive.
As for automation at off peak times, it makes perfect business sense in a market like Cornwall to do this. As others have suggested, there is nothing to say Pirate won't extend some live hours if they think there's something to be gained.
I think you're underestimating the local feeling around here. And I think Global have not understood a very important dynamic round here. It's amazing how many people come down here to Cornwall to live, even if they've been on holiday before, and totally underestimate and do not expect the huge difference in attitudes around here. It takes people a while to adjust. Some parts of Devon are very much the same. It's something that most people thought was dying out, but it doesn't seem to be the case. No amount of marketing can overcome that.
I'm not sure how accurate the Public File is. James Martin used to be 9am to 2pm rather than 10am to 2pm, with Neil Caddy doing a 5am to 9am breakfast show. I will check what they're currently doing, but last time I heard it, my strong impression was the 5am hour was live.
However, all the summer tourists that are used to listening to heart in other parts of the country will, I guess, continue to tune in when in Cornwall. If you were the guy running the tourist attraction where would you advertise your business? The station that the tourists are familiar with? That's got to hurt Pirate somehow?
if heart can do well in N west wales its got no problem down there!
You might have a point, but those tourists don't tick Rajar diaries, and Heart will have no accurate listening figures of who those visitors are to show the guy who runs the attraction.
If VT is done properly, with time checks etc it can sound totally live and nobody would notice any difference. |It is when it is done quickly and cheaply and using many generic links that it sounds awful.
Exactly - no radio station targets tourists as they don't show up in Rajar.
Heart is aimed at 25 to 44-year-old women. And they like Take That and I've Had The Time Of My Life whether they're in Cornwall, London or Norfolk. They really don't care where the presenter is - but even if they do, they won't be able to tell Toby's in London for all the split links he'll do in the early days. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Heart sounds more local than Pirate at first. WE know he's in London, but most normal listeners won't, and even if they do they won't care as long as he plays their favourite songs, which he will.
So if local pride is so strong, why has Atlantic performed so badly?
People listen to a radio station because they like what it sounds like, not because of where the studios are. Atlantic's as local as you can get, but the people of Cornwall clearly don't care because they're not listening to it.
Cornish Pastie , cold so no vat.
Sorry, but you can tell the difference. The energy is lacking in recorded material, compared to live material. It's not possible to capture the live energy in a recorded link or programme. It's a subtle difference, but it is detectable.
The only time that energy can be present in recorded form, is in a recording of an actual live transmission. Otherwise, that energy just cannot be manufactured for pre-recorded material.
71,000 listeners out of 455,000 in the Total Survey Area? That's hardly bad, compared to both Radio Cornwall and Pirate FM. Where they more significantly underperform is on average hours per listener per week. 6 hours for Atlantic compared to 10 hours for Pirate and 12 hours for BBC Radio Cornwall. As far as ratings went, they were performing relatively well, even with room for improvement.
What let Atlantic down? Basically, revenue. Not making enough of it to cover the costs. My suspicion, based upon experience, is that they were basically trying to undercut Pirate FM by being cheaper, without actually having done the sums to make sure they were making a profit.
Don't forget, BBC Radio Cornwall has been around since 1983, Pirate FM since 1992. There was room in the market for Atlantic, but there was very little margin for error. Add to that tough economic conditions since 2008, and really that just about sums it up.
As I said, 71,000 listeners out of 455,000, doesn't sound like people aren't listening to it, to my eyes and ears. I'd hear Atlantic being played in a number of local shops. So people were listening, they're just weren't listening to it for any prolongued length of time. Atlantic hadn't been failing to get listeners in the past couple of years, in fact its audience had been growing, very slowly, but it had been growing.
There's a lot of dynamics at play in Devon and Cornwall, that do not exist anywhere else in the UK. I've lived down here for 39 years, all my life. I've seen them every day, no matter what I might be doing. Doesn't matter where else in the country I go, for business or holiday, no set of dynamics I've encountered ever comes close to the passion, intensity, and sometimes, downright hostility to England and London that is present in some parts of Cornwall. I find some of it really shameful, but I know that it exists, and I know that Global haven't factored those dynamics in to their plans.
It doesn't matter if you've not encountered anything similar in your area, this is how it is down here, and there is nothing Global can do in terms of marketing, that will change that.
The county is just about big enough to sustain two commercial players, provided the wider advertising market recovers.
He's made lots of sweeping statements about 'Cornish pride' with little more than weak anecdotal evidence to back it up.
Yes, there are people down there fiercely proud of their Cornish roots, just as there are proud Mancunians, Londoners, Scots, Welsh etc... It is not something that is exclusive to Cornwall, though it may seem more prevalent in a small County where not much else happens.
What Cityprod, and anyone else adopting the 'Cornish-people-won't-stand-for-a-local-station-being-piped-in-from-London argument, seem to be overlooking is that Heart will actually be something of a unique presence in Cornwall. This will be the first time a semi-national station has been heard on FM in the County, and rather than rejecting it, I imagine many will give it a go on that novelty alone. We are talking about commercial radio listeners here after all.
Well, when I've encountered these feelings, expressed to me in places like Penzance, Torpoint, Bude and many other points in between, at varying levels from mild to positively vitriolic, I always get the impression that people underestimate it, and if I were Global right now, I'd rather over-estimate negative feeling against you than underestimate it
You might see it as anecdotal, to me, I've heard it straight from people's mouths. It's real. And I'll tell it like I see it and hear it.
Unique, yes, but I think it compares very unfavourably to Radio Cornwall and Pirate FM. Not merely in the localness department, but from listening to the Plymouth version on DAB, the coverage of local travel, weather and news is very poor compared to other stations. The music mix is ok, but the station is just lacking in content value. Pirate FM is much better content wise, and Radio Cornwall is very strong on content. That's why I don't think they've got a chance, without seriously improving the product.
Heart are not going to do live and local all day for Cornwall, it wouldn't make any money.
Pirate FM made an operating loss for the year to 30 September 2010 (the last available figures - source: Companies House). The advertising revenue isn't there to support live and local round the clock, especially since the COI funding was slashed in June 2010.
Hardly most - 6 stations (2BR, The Bee, KL FM. Mix96, Spirit FM, Pirate FM) whereas both Wessex FM and Minster FM VT or live until midnight, Sun FM, Star NE, Stray FM, Yorkshire Coast Radio and Spire FM until 10pm, and 96.4 The Eagle to 8pm while Star Cambridge has variable extents of VT/live evening broadcasting. Think the extent of evening broadcasting depends on how profitable or not the station is.
New male V/O too.
Shorten the travel, or run the line at the beginning?
Radios 1 and 2 do ok down there don't they?
Heart will be what it will be and it will win audience on that basis, as is the case everywhere else.
It's just radio.