I think CBS are the best of the US networks and I quite like the idea of them buying Five. But they must NOT be allowed to water down the regulations on UK content or the limits on the amount of advertising that can be shown. ....
AFAIK there aren't any regulations on the production of UK content. I think C5 produce a load of children's content to try and butter up Ofcom when it comes to PSB commitments.
As regards any potential buy-out and what Ofcom would do, judging by the way that they cave in to the radio operators, they will probably simply roll over.
surely there is some kind of legal limit to how far Ofcom can go in letting PSB's off, before the government has to step in and say they are all sacked then set up a new stricter regulator?
It depends on the financial circumstances. Before Ofcom "caved in" to radio operators in 2009 around 80% of commercial radio stations were making losses and several licences had already been handed back. One of them was Valleys Radio in South Wales - the owners wanted to run it from Neath Business Park but Ofcom said no so the station was needlessly closed down and not replaced. Sometimes over-regulating leads to a worse service for viewers and listeners.
For Channel 5 the situation is different because at the moment it's a profitable business and there will be interested parties even with the current regulatory requirements. The 2012 loss incurred by Channel 5 was largely due to a Diamond Jubilee, Euro 2012 and a London Olympics all in the same year (none of them on Channel 5) which will not happen again in our lifetime.
Not really a surprise to see this. Desmond has achieved what he wanted to. He bought for a song, cut back on costs and increase profitability - now he can sell for a very tidy sum for himself.
Don't really see where the buyers are coming from, to be quite honest. It seems pointless (and another regulatory burden) for ITV, it doesn't really fit BT's business plan of flogging broadband and it seems a bit too tentative a step for a genuinely massive international player like one of the US networks. They could just go straight out for ITV.
Not really a surprise to see this. Desmond has achieved what he wanted to. He bought for a song, cut back on costs and increase profitability - now he can sell for a very tidy sum for himself.
Don't really see where the buyers are coming from, to be quite honest. It seems pointless (and another regulatory burden) for ITV, it doesn't really fit BT's business plan of flogging broadband and it seems a bit too tentative a step for a genuinely massive international player like one of the US networks. They could just go straight out for ITV.
Agree. I struggle to see the USP of Five that would make it attractive as a long term buy. It's almost totally reliant on advertising income and doesn't have any significant in house production. In 5-10 years won't this model be on its last legs? Surely the best you can get out of Five is a reasonable profit stream from advertising in the next few years dependent on the state of the economy. As the economy had picked up then obviously Five is worth more but I struggle to see how it's worth more than £300-400 m maximum.
Of course the real genius will be if someone spots a gap in the current tv market and the potential to take Five in a totally different direction and make a mint by doing so. If I could figure out what that would be I would be a lot richer than i am now though.
Many could not. ITV is currently valued at some £7.6bn so would perhaps be taken over for about £9bn so probably out of the range of companies like CBS (market cap $38bn/£23bn) and AMC Networks (market cap $4.8bn/£2.9bn)but feasible for TimeWarner (market cap $62bn/£37bn).
Many could not. ITV is currently valued at some £7.6bn so would perhaps be taken over for about £9bn so probably out of the range of companies like CBS (market cap $38bn/£23bn) and AMC Networks (market cap $4.8bn/£2.9bn)but feasible for TimeWarner (market cap $62bn/£37bn).
The question is what would TimeWarner gain from buying ITV? A few shows, that don't necessarily do well internationally (Downton Abbey is produced by Comcast's Carnival Films) and a few formats they can sell on. And the UK largest commercial TV network.
It doesn't seem like there's enough to keep them interested in either channel.
The question is what would TimeWarner gain from buying ITV? A few shows, that don't necessarily do well internationally (Downton Abbey is produced by Comcast's Carnival Films) and a few formats they can sell on. And the UK largest commercial TV network.
It doesn't seem like there's enough to keep them interested in either channel.
Don't necessarily disagree, was just pointing out why some US companies might be interested in Channel 5 as oppose to ITV, namely because it's affordable.
Don't necessarily disagree, was just pointing out why some US companies might be interested in Channel 5 as oppose to ITV, namely because it's affordable.
I reckon the buyer will be somebody who already has some stake in the UK (or possibly another European) market. My guess would be there's a smaller media group or mini-conglomerate that wants to step up and C5 could be a good choice for them, it's in a big market, one that's likely to be similar to their other territories, but it isn't a massive commitment and it's probably not very expensive.
I reckon the buyer will be somebody who already has some stake in the UK (or possibly another European) market. My guess would be there's a smaller media group or mini-conglomerate that wants to step up and C5 could be a good choice for them, it's in a big market, one that's likely to be similar to their other territories, but it isn't a massive commitment and it's probably not very expensive.
What about RTE they are thinking about a UK channel? Could they make a go of being a UK PSB too?
What about RTE they are thinking about a UK channel? Could they make a go of being a UK PSB too?
I would say no, because they're first and foremost an Irish public service broadcaster, buying a major channel in another country makes no sense. And I thought RTE had monetary issues, so even if they wanted to, they probably couldn't afford it.
With the amount of expert opinion on digital spy in relation to broadcasting , im sure someone out there in ds land would know how to turn 5 around, maybe we should have a whip round all the ds members and put a bid in for the channel.
And if The CW was going to launch in the UK would it not be aiming for the ITV2 type market? And therefore anything with prior PSB commitments, like news and to a lesser extent children's content, would be a no.
CW has a children's block, called Vortexx, which is run by Saban. Channel 5 having kids shows is no obstacle.
CW has a children's block, called Vortexx, which is run by Saban. Channel 5 having kids shows is no obstacle.
I knew they had something, but I'm still not entirely convinced the CW expanding is anything more than wishful thinking. But it would put them in a prime position to obtain all of Warner Bros. Television's content, and possibly a bit of HBO, and I certainly wouldn't object to all of that appearing free to air.
With the amount of expert opinion on digital spy in relation to broadcasting , im sure someone out there in ds land would know how to turn 5 around, maybe we should have a whip round all the ds members and put a bid in for the channel.
Lol...I'll give you a Fiver...sorry bad pun.
I think there could be something in this for ITV if the current regulation is amended...perhaps the scrapping of the PSB side of Channel 5's Licence in exchange for a stronger ITV PSB licence (more National News updates, a better Regional News service and more British Children's content) on the main ITV channel and CITV. Amongst other conditions of course such as channel sell offs of the higher numbered channels etc. A stronger ITV means better competition for the BBC and Sky surely?
I think there could be something in this for ITV if the current regulation is amended...perhaps the scrapping of the PSB side of Channel 5's Licence in exchange for a stronger ITV PSB licence (more National News updates, a better Regional News service and more British Children's content) on the main ITV channel and CITV. Amongst other conditions of course such as channel sell offs of the higher numbered channels etc. A stronger ITV means better competition for the BBC and Sky surely?
So how do you see the channel make up if ITV buy C5?
I would see it as
Channel 3 licence ITV (as now)
Channel 5 licence ITV 2 or 5
Milkshake programs put onto CITV as a pre-school kids slot (unless they have the money to have a full Milkshake channel (with the over night part sold off like with CITV now.
Programs form 5* and 5USA distributed amongst the 4 or 5 ITV channels there would be!
Maybe with ITV owning the Channel 5 licence that channel would become to ITV what BBC 2 is to BBC!
I agree about the news commitments ect, I do think though that instead of ITV putting kids stuff on the main channels, that Ofcom should just stipulate that say ITV 2 and ITV +1 on PSB 2 MUX looses bandwidth and goes 540*576 res during the day and gives it to CITV, then when it closes ITV 2 and ITV +1 bandwidth and res increases back to what it is now.
It would then be a true rival to the BBC's kids channels on all of freeview.
They would also have the space on the COM MUX for another channel during the day, which they could potentially use for a Milkshake channel?
I think what will be interesting to see is if he goes through with a sale.
Indeed. Of course there may be no intention on Desmond's part for a sale at all. He could be just trying to find out what Ch5 is worth and the way to do that is see what someone else is prepared to pay for it.
Of course the real genius will be if someone spots a gap in the current tv market and the potential to take Five in a totally different direction and make a mint by doing so. If I could figure out what that would be I would be a lot richer than i am now though.
Some ideas have already been posted in this thread on this.
The milkshake brand is strong thanks to some good kids shows which were around even when I was a kid like Mr Men and Rupert the Bear. I would expand on this and launch the rumoured Milkshake channel.
Ch5 has Neighbours and Home and Away, why not make it the home of all Aussie/Kiwi tv in the UK? I seem to recall CH5 used to show Aussie/Kiwi kids/teen shows in the mornings which were pretty good. With Wentworth being shown, Ch5 should do a deal with all the major Aussie channels and show their best on the channel.
If CH5 are going to show US shows, it should be exclusive. Make CH5 the sole place to see NCIS, CSI etc
CH5 should just offer something different to what the others aren't doing and to be fair with a little work, their not that far off now. Afternoon films when others are showing game and chat shows. Aussie soaps when others are showing the news. They just need some strong home grown dramas and comedies to anchor the schedules.
I'd imagine BT Sports is more an attempt to boost their pay TV operation, than a desire to go into broadcasting.
But it is broadcasting none the less. They have tv presenters, tv cameras, studios, sounds like broadcasting to me. But I think Ch5 is too small for BT to be interested.
I said before on forums, I think the UK will end up with 3 or 4 vertically integrated media companies which will each consist of a terrestrial tv channel, network/delivery platform of some sort, broadband and mobile.
Whether vodafone buys VM, or someone else, we'll have to wait and see, but I reckon the media landscape will look something like this in a few years:
Company 1 - BT, ITV, EE, Guardian Media Group, Pinewood film studios
Company 2 - Vodafone, CH5, Virgin Media, Express Newspapers
Company 3 - Murdoch empire, BskyB, Sky 1 becomes Ch6, Three, Times/Sun etc
Company 4 - Yank company (maybe Comcast/Disney etc, Ch4 (if privatised), Talk Talk, Associated Newspapers.
BT is the most fascinating possibility I suppose, not that they are officially interested in any way but I can certainly think of reasons why they might be. The cost would be small fry to them and it could pave the way for the Europa League to return to Five, previously one of the most successful programmes on the channel. They could use it as a shop window for their other sports coverage like Champions League and Premier League football. The rest could stay largely the same as it is now.
If they were worried about the general perception of the Channel 5 brand they could always rebrand to BT TV or something. Then it really would be a fresh start.
Sky could buy it and launch Sky Australia or Sky Oceania with soaps, Wentworth, kath & kim, shortland street etc. if not, the US programming could be reassigned to Sky1/Living with channel 5 replaced with improved Pick!
BT is the most fascinating possibility I suppose, not that they are officially interested in any way but I can certainly think of reasons why they might be. The cost would be small fry to them and it could pave the way for the Europa League to return to Five, previously one of the most successful programmes on the channel. They could use it as a shop window for their other sports coverage like Champions League and Premier League football. The rest could stay largely the same as it is now.
If they were worried about the general perception of the Channel 5 brand they could always rebrand to BT TV or something. Then it really would be a fresh start.
That would be very interesting as to most people CH5 would be closing and BT TV would appear to launch in its place!
This would be 'like' a whole new channel in most people's eyes! even though it would be the same channel just with a new name and new owner!
Comments
Do BT actually want to get into broadcasting?
I'd imagine BT Sports is more an attempt to boost their pay TV operation, than a desire to go into broadcasting.
I wonder if ITV would get past the competition thing? Surely if Sky were allowed Livings channels there would be no issues?
AFAIK there aren't any regulations on the production of UK content. I think C5 produce a load of children's content to try and butter up Ofcom when it comes to PSB commitments.
It depends on the financial circumstances. Before Ofcom "caved in" to radio operators in 2009 around 80% of commercial radio stations were making losses and several licences had already been handed back. One of them was Valleys Radio in South Wales - the owners wanted to run it from Neath Business Park but Ofcom said no so the station was needlessly closed down and not replaced. Sometimes over-regulating leads to a worse service for viewers and listeners.
For Channel 5 the situation is different because at the moment it's a profitable business and there will be interested parties even with the current regulatory requirements. The 2012 loss incurred by Channel 5 was largely due to a Diamond Jubilee, Euro 2012 and a London Olympics all in the same year (none of them on Channel 5) which will not happen again in our lifetime.
Don't really see where the buyers are coming from, to be quite honest. It seems pointless (and another regulatory burden) for ITV, it doesn't really fit BT's business plan of flogging broadband and it seems a bit too tentative a step for a genuinely massive international player like one of the US networks. They could just go straight out for ITV.
Agree. I struggle to see the USP of Five that would make it attractive as a long term buy. It's almost totally reliant on advertising income and doesn't have any significant in house production. In 5-10 years won't this model be on its last legs? Surely the best you can get out of Five is a reasonable profit stream from advertising in the next few years dependent on the state of the economy. As the economy had picked up then obviously Five is worth more but I struggle to see how it's worth more than £300-400 m maximum.
The question is what would TimeWarner gain from buying ITV? A few shows, that don't necessarily do well internationally (Downton Abbey is produced by Comcast's Carnival Films) and a few formats they can sell on. And the UK largest commercial TV network.
It doesn't seem like there's enough to keep them interested in either channel.
I reckon the buyer will be somebody who already has some stake in the UK (or possibly another European) market. My guess would be there's a smaller media group or mini-conglomerate that wants to step up and C5 could be a good choice for them, it's in a big market, one that's likely to be similar to their other territories, but it isn't a massive commitment and it's probably not very expensive.
What about RTE they are thinking about a UK channel? Could they make a go of being a UK PSB too?
I would say no, because they're first and foremost an Irish public service broadcaster, buying a major channel in another country makes no sense. And I thought RTE had monetary issues, so even if they wanted to, they probably couldn't afford it.
Rte is deep in debt and has to make more redundancies to break even by 2014 as ordered by the government
I knew they had something, but I'm still not entirely convinced the CW expanding is anything more than wishful thinking. But it would put them in a prime position to obtain all of Warner Bros. Television's content, and possibly a bit of HBO, and I certainly wouldn't object to all of that appearing free to air.
BT another not ruling out seeing they dived into these sporting channels.
Lol...I'll give you a Fiver...sorry bad pun.
I think there could be something in this for ITV if the current regulation is amended...perhaps the scrapping of the PSB side of Channel 5's Licence in exchange for a stronger ITV PSB licence (more National News updates, a better Regional News service and more British Children's content) on the main ITV channel and CITV. Amongst other conditions of course such as channel sell offs of the higher numbered channels etc. A stronger ITV means better competition for the BBC and Sky surely?
So how do you see the channel make up if ITV buy C5?
I would see it as
Channel 3 licence ITV (as now)
Channel 5 licence ITV 2 or 5
Milkshake programs put onto CITV as a pre-school kids slot (unless they have the money to have a full Milkshake channel (with the over night part sold off like with CITV now.
Programs form 5* and 5USA distributed amongst the 4 or 5 ITV channels there would be!
Maybe with ITV owning the Channel 5 licence that channel would become to ITV what BBC 2 is to BBC!
I agree about the news commitments ect, I do think though that instead of ITV putting kids stuff on the main channels, that Ofcom should just stipulate that say ITV 2 and ITV +1 on PSB 2 MUX looses bandwidth and goes 540*576 res during the day and gives it to CITV, then when it closes ITV 2 and ITV +1 bandwidth and res increases back to what it is now.
It would then be a true rival to the BBC's kids channels on all of freeview.
They would also have the space on the COM MUX for another channel during the day, which they could potentially use for a Milkshake channel?
Some ideas have already been posted in this thread on this.
The milkshake brand is strong thanks to some good kids shows which were around even when I was a kid like Mr Men and Rupert the Bear. I would expand on this and launch the rumoured Milkshake channel.
Ch5 has Neighbours and Home and Away, why not make it the home of all Aussie/Kiwi tv in the UK? I seem to recall CH5 used to show Aussie/Kiwi kids/teen shows in the mornings which were pretty good. With Wentworth being shown, Ch5 should do a deal with all the major Aussie channels and show their best on the channel.
If CH5 are going to show US shows, it should be exclusive. Make CH5 the sole place to see NCIS, CSI etc
CH5 should just offer something different to what the others aren't doing and to be fair with a little work, their not that far off now. Afternoon films when others are showing game and chat shows. Aussie soaps when others are showing the news. They just need some strong home grown dramas and comedies to anchor the schedules.
But it is broadcasting none the less. They have tv presenters, tv cameras, studios, sounds like broadcasting to me. But I think Ch5 is too small for BT to be interested.
I said before on forums, I think the UK will end up with 3 or 4 vertically integrated media companies which will each consist of a terrestrial tv channel, network/delivery platform of some sort, broadband and mobile.
Whether vodafone buys VM, or someone else, we'll have to wait and see, but I reckon the media landscape will look something like this in a few years:
Company 1 - BT, ITV, EE, Guardian Media Group, Pinewood film studios
Company 2 - Vodafone, CH5, Virgin Media, Express Newspapers
Company 3 - Murdoch empire, BskyB, Sky 1 becomes Ch6, Three, Times/Sun etc
Company 4 - Yank company (maybe Comcast/Disney etc, Ch4 (if privatised), Talk Talk, Associated Newspapers.
If they were worried about the general perception of the Channel 5 brand they could always rebrand to BT TV or something. Then it really would be a fresh start.
That would be very interesting as to most people CH5 would be closing and BT TV would appear to launch in its place!
This would be 'like' a whole new channel in most people's eyes! even though it would be the same channel just with a new name and new owner!