Wasn't Nyssa an ethnic minority of one? Not to mention Katarina, Vicki, Adric, Jack, Turlough... we've had black, white, male, female, Timelord, Gallifreyan, from the past, from the future, from e-space, mechanical, from other planets, Australian - seems to me a lot of minorities have been included!
To really wind up the Daily Heil the next Doctor should be a left wing disabled black female lesbian muslim illegal immigrant who cheats on her benefits and avoids paying tax
Baroness Sayeeda Warsi for next companion then. Does lack of ability count as a disability?
Joe,
I agree with you that TV shows should reflect diversity, and as opposed to other posters here I also believe that a certain level of so called positive discrimination can be acceptable to further equality.
Yet I see no flaws regarding this matter with DW, they are doing a very good job IMO.
I think you see discrimination where there is none, because you are not taking certain aspects into consideration:
1.) DW goes back to the 1960s, when racial diversity was not part of the BBC agenda, or even anything TV producers bothered thinking about. Having main characters on a children's TV show played by actors from ethnic minorties would have possibly even caused a small outrage back then - that's the sad truth. Therefore, when taking about inclusion on TV, you can really only go back about 20-30 years max.
2.) DW is not a soap or serial drama with 50+ regular characters. The main figures are very limited, basically consisting of the Doctor + companion + one or two recurring figures.
In this limited set of people, you have Martha and her family in S2, Mickey/Ricky for several seasons, and of course Captain Jack and Madame Vastra as gay/lesbian characters. You also have lots of supporting cast members who represent ethnic minorities, such as the companion in "the Next Doctor", Rita in "The God Complex", Dr. Moon and Dave in "Silence in the Library", Donna's husband, the stewardess in "Midnight", etc.
3.) Inclusion / Equality is not only about showing people from diverse ethnic minorites. The "mix" of characters also means using older characters (Wilfried, Jackie), characters from diverse social backgrounds (Rose from the council estate vs. Martha the doctor) etc. DW is way ahead of most American any even many English shows when it comes to using actors who are not supermodel-types.
An old female lesbian black disabled doctor, please. The recent doctors have seriously under-represented older people.
Surely including the qualifier of doctor implies a qualification or level of ability and as such is a none all inclusive term, especially for those of a lesser ability (but equal potential, naturally). Dropping this would leave a problematic Who in the title, which could be solved with either a question mark or something in Esperanto.
Surely including the qualifier of doctor implies a qualification or level of ability and as such is a none all inclusive term, especially for those of a lesser ability (but equal potential, naturally). Dropping this would leave a problematic Who in the title, which could be solved with either a question mark or something in Esperanto.
But surely that would mean that people who didn't know Esperanto wouldn't feel included??
One of the things I admired and noticed about the RTD era was the regular use black and asian actors. This seems to be reduced since SM took over, maybe I notice this because because I'm from that demographic. Personally I don't have any desire to have a black Doctor or a deliberate quota of minority representations but I do think what RTD did was just make the inclusion of non-white, non-straight just matter a fact. I hate how the term political correctness has become this tabloid punchline. It implies that the need from sections of the community to have a voice or be seen is taking something from the majority.
..and the actor Rudolph Walker (Patrick from Eastenders) who has appeared in a few Doctor Who stories said that black actors got much more work in the 60's and 70's. In fact David Harewood (from Homeland) who starred in David Tenant's swan song was encouraged by Idris Elba (Luther) to move to the USA because of the diversity of parts for non-white actors. America is way ahead of the UK when it comes to diversity casting and they don't seem to be suffering from it. Just saying
..and the actor Rudolph Walker (Patrick from Eastenders) who has appeared in a few Doctor Who stories said that black actors got much more work in the 60's and 70's. In fact David Harewood (from Homeland) who starred in David Tenant's swan song was encouraged by Idris Elba (Luther) to move to the USA because of the diversity of parts for non-white actors. America is way ahead of the UK when it comes to diversity casting and they don't seem to be suffering from it. Just saying
The UK/USA difference is potentially a fair point. I don't know the racial breakdown comparison between population and television representation. But in the UK's defence I will say that it is only a recent change; in the sixties British television was actively dissuaded from using ethnic actors because it would harm the sales potential to the USA.
The UK/USA difference is potentially a fair point. I don't know the racial breakdown comparison between population and television representation. But in the UK's defence I will say that it is only a recent change; in the sixties British television was actively dissuaded from using ethnic actors because it would harm the sales potential to the USA.
In the states most TV dramas are actively encouraged to show diversity. I know its changing in the Uk but judging the reaction of some of the posters on this subject, its still seems theirs a ways to go.
In the states most TV dramas are actively encouraged to show diversity. I know its changing in the Uk but judging the reaction of some of the posters on this subject, its still seems theirs a ways to go.
You're judging a whole United Kingdom based on the throwaway sarcastic remarks of a few bored internet users who you don't know and implying we should be more like America in regards to racial equality? Errrrr...
You're judging a whole United Kingdom based on the throwaway sarcastic remarks of a few bored internet users who you don't know and implying we should be more like America in regards to racial equality? Errrrr...[/QUOTE
I wasn't judging the whole of the UK! That's the thing about forums, You can only react to the impact those posting have on yourself as an individual,sarcastic or otherwise.
As for me implying the UK be more like the U.S? I'm not sure I did,I just pointed out how TV and diversity works. Never mentioned racial equality, that said someone considered to be from a minority has occupied the white House for while now. Its not all bad:rolleyes:
Lets keep PC out of it thanks. I don't want it to get ruined after some genius decides to have a female lesbian black Doctor. :rolleyes:
Can we stop using the term "political correctness", please?
It was a term favoured by the likes of the late
Bernard Manning to make their bigoted rantings sound "daring" and "subversive". ("Oh,the "PC brigade" won't let me say the N-Word!") :mad:
As for non-white companions, well I don't have a problem with the Doctor having black or Asian companions, as long as they are good actors and aren't cast solely for their
ethnicity.
Noel Clarke was pretty good as Mickey, and Freema was okay even though she wasn't the world's greatest actress.
Can we stop using the term "political correctness", please?
It was a term favoured by the likes of the late
Bernard Manning to make their bigoted rantings sound "daring" and "subversive". ("Oh,the "PC brigade" won't let me say the N-Word!") :mad:
As for non-white companions, well I don't have a problem with the Doctor having black or Asian companions, as long as they are good actors and aren't cast solely for their
ethnicity.
Noel Clarke was pretty good as Mickey, and Freema was okay even though she wasn't the world's greatest actress.
I was with you up until the Freema comment...lol:rolleyes: I love her
Whatever your opinion on the relative merits of the various stories one thing that is undeniable is that the casting of Doctor Who has always been uniformly brilliant. They choose the best person for the role, regardless of ethnicity. It should never become a game of numbers and percentages or tokenistic gestures.
Comments
Baroness Sayeeda Warsi for next companion then. Does lack of ability count as a disability?
How loudly can she scream?
I agree with you that TV shows should reflect diversity, and as opposed to other posters here I also believe that a certain level of so called positive discrimination can be acceptable to further equality.
Yet I see no flaws regarding this matter with DW, they are doing a very good job IMO.
I think you see discrimination where there is none, because you are not taking certain aspects into consideration:
1.) DW goes back to the 1960s, when racial diversity was not part of the BBC agenda, or even anything TV producers bothered thinking about. Having main characters on a children's TV show played by actors from ethnic minorties would have possibly even caused a small outrage back then - that's the sad truth. Therefore, when taking about inclusion on TV, you can really only go back about 20-30 years max.
2.) DW is not a soap or serial drama with 50+ regular characters. The main figures are very limited, basically consisting of the Doctor + companion + one or two recurring figures.
In this limited set of people, you have Martha and her family in S2, Mickey/Ricky for several seasons, and of course Captain Jack and Madame Vastra as gay/lesbian characters. You also have lots of supporting cast members who represent ethnic minorities, such as the companion in "the Next Doctor", Rita in "The God Complex", Dr. Moon and Dave in "Silence in the Library", Donna's husband, the stewardess in "Midnight", etc.
3.) Inclusion / Equality is not only about showing people from diverse ethnic minorites. The "mix" of characters also means using older characters (Wilfried, Jackie), characters from diverse social backgrounds (Rose from the council estate vs. Martha the doctor) etc. DW is way ahead of most American any even many English shows when it comes to using actors who are not supermodel-types.
4.) Half the cast are aliens.
Surely including the qualifier of doctor implies a qualification or level of ability and as such is a none all inclusive term, especially for those of a lesser ability (but equal potential, naturally). Dropping this would leave a problematic Who in the title, which could be solved with either a question mark or something in Esperanto.
But surely that would mean that people who didn't know Esperanto wouldn't feel included??
..and the actor Rudolph Walker (Patrick from Eastenders) who has appeared in a few Doctor Who stories said that black actors got much more work in the 60's and 70's. In fact David Harewood (from Homeland) who starred in David Tenant's swan song was encouraged by Idris Elba (Luther) to move to the USA because of the diversity of parts for non-white actors. America is way ahead of the UK when it comes to diversity casting and they don't seem to be suffering from it. Just saying
The UK/USA difference is potentially a fair point. I don't know the racial breakdown comparison between population and television representation. But in the UK's defence I will say that it is only a recent change; in the sixties British television was actively dissuaded from using ethnic actors because it would harm the sales potential to the USA.
In the states most TV dramas are actively encouraged to show diversity. I know its changing in the Uk but judging the reaction of some of the posters on this subject, its still seems theirs a ways to go.
You're judging a whole United Kingdom based on the throwaway sarcastic remarks of a few bored internet users who you don't know and implying we should be more like America in regards to racial equality? Errrrr...
Can we stop using the term "political correctness", please?
It was a term favoured by the likes of the late
Bernard Manning to make their bigoted rantings sound "daring" and "subversive". ("Oh,the "PC brigade" won't let me say the N-Word!") :mad:
As for non-white companions, well I don't have a problem with the Doctor having black or Asian companions, as long as they are good actors and aren't cast solely for their
ethnicity.
Noel Clarke was pretty good as Mickey, and Freema was okay even though she wasn't the world's greatest actress.
I was with you up until the Freema comment...lol:rolleyes: I love her
Then don't go near the thread in "Broadcasting" about "why are the no non-white pundits on Match of the Day" !!!
If you looked up "Po-Faced" in a dictionary it would just link to that thread !!