Ten's regeneration was actually the one scene I enjoyed out of a story I otherwise hated. And yes, I even liked the farewell tour, even if it wasn't really needed (we'd already got what would have been a nice send-off for the RTD era companions in Journey's End).
I can totally understand why some feel it was overblown and melodramatic, but to me it made a lot of sense that Ten was so reluctant to "go". Everything that made that incarnation unique to that incarnation was about to be lost forever. I imagine that would be pretty difficult to deal with. This especially applies when one takes into account that Ten was around for a mere four years, whereas the other incarnations were generally around a lot longer from an in-universe perspective.
Also, whether we like it or not, Ten was one of the more "human" incarnations, so it seems the way his regeneration was handled was suitable for the character.
Nevertheless I would prefer something more akin to Nine's regeneration for Eleven i.e. low-key with a glimmer of hope. Eleven is clearly a different character to Ten emotionally and it wouldn't make sense to give him a similar send-off.
Agreed. That one scene with Wilf in the radiation box absolutely wrecked 10's exit for me. 10 could have risen to the occasion like 5 did, but instead he threw an uncharacteristic tantrum. Ending it with "I don't want to go!" was just the icing on the cake for a bad exit (but of course it didn't stop there, we had to have a regeneration absolutely destroy the TARDIS interior for no reason at all as well). Funny how the Master's regeneration didn't blow up the TARDIS interior. Or 9's.
I guess that could be something to do with the radiation he'd absorbed, or perhaps because he had been holding off his regeneration the effect was more violent than normal?
I think a dying man is allowed a moment to rage against the unjustness of his predicament.
Yes, but this dying man has died 9 times before and rarely (if at all) made a fuss - a couple of times because he didn't have a chance to...
That's San Francisco gang wars for you...
Although Ten having an emotional breakdown does make sense in relation to the unique nature of his character. I suppose, considering Nine didn't last that long, he was the first post-Time War Doc to lose companions and friends, and the pangs of failure, guilt and regret are probably far more exaggerated after such a supposedly traumatic period in his life.
This has carried on in Eleven in a way ("He doesn't like endings..." etc)
Actually, those would make good last words for Eleven, I think.
CLARA: "Is this the end?"
DOCTOR: "Nah...I don't like endings."
:)I thought it was odd too and sorry funny , though it wwas meant to be serious like he was suffering from a bad curry , dr who can be so bad , its funny ax
Except the vital point is whether he kicks and screams about it he does it in end.
EXACTLY He was no more a wimp then any other incarnation of the Doctor. He knew what he had to do and what the result would be. Anyone who thinks regeneration is easy hasn't been watching the programme. He liked his current incarnation and quite rightly did'nt want it to end. Don't forget there is no cast iron guarantee that a severly injured Timelord will definately regenerate. If he/she is too far gone they may just die.In the end he did the correct,brave thing to do and sacrificed himself to save Wilf. I really don't understand why some people think that was the slightest bit wimpy.Who on here would have the guts to do that ?
It was perfectly fitting that the most 'human' of Doctors had the most human of endings. Plus it wasn't as if he was suddenly shot by a dalek again or caught unawares. The way RTD wrote it was almost akin to a terminal illness for Tens incarnation with him basically being told his time was running out some time soon. The clock was ticking from S4 right through to the end of time and as such it would account for Tens erratic behavior in The Waters of Mars etc. Also the massive mood swings, raging against the dying of the light,feeling sorry for himself one minute then being stoical the next, screaming at the unfairness of it, refusing to accept it and then reaching a place of relative peace where it was clear his time had come was captured perfectly by Tennant. Moving stuff indeed.
Of course you can still argue that a centuries old Timelord should be a bit more pragmatic but then that wasn't really Ten's nature.
I think a dying man is allowed a moment to rage against the unjustness of his predicament.
The problem for me was that Ten wasn't 'a man' He was a vastly powerful alien who had already lived about 13 times more than the human 'three score years and ten'. He had seen more than everybody on this planet he was so fond of. It still wasn't enough for Doctor 'me, me, me', so it was impossible to sympathise.
In spite of a healthy chance of regenerating, thus cheating death altogether, Ten whined so much that he made Wilf feel bad - despite the fact that he was only trapped because he'd saved someone else in the same predicament. I'll never rewatch it, but didn't he tell Ten to forget about him because he was old? Well what would that make Ten? I know he was written as a teen hero, to make it feasible that he and Rose could share the love of the century :rolleyes: but he was ancient. Would that whole relationship have appealed so much to a certain type of fan (and Rose herself) if it had been William Hartnell, instead of David Tennant? After all, Ten was centuries older than One, about twice as old. Somehow I doubt it, though (imo) it had all the romance of a slow teen seduced by her manipulative pensioner school caretaker. However the fans (and Rose) liked his hair and he looked young, so apparently it wasn't creepy at all.
I hope Moffat is inspired by Nine's departure which was both classic and classy, as well as raising a smile.
The problem for me was that Ten wasn't 'a man' He was a vastly powerful alien who had already lived about 13 times more than the human 'three score years and ten'. He had seen more than everybody on this planet he was so fond of. It still wasn't enough for Doctor 'me, me, me', so it was impossible to sympathise.
If you've already decided that that is what Ten was, then there's no way that you could like any emotional reaction he could have.
And why the diversion into ranting about Rose? She wasn't even there!
Apart from the cringy "I don't want to go" line I thought 10's exit was wonderful. Not wimpy in the slightest. That line let him down badly though. Self indulgent dross.
I thought 9's exit was short and to the point. I think 11's will be more emotional though - 9 had only Rose to say goodbye to, 11 will have Clara, Madame Vastra, Jenny, Strax and most likely, River.
I could never work out why the Tenth Doctor got so upset over the fact his time was up, I mean, it's not as the forthcoming regeneration was his first. I suppose as has been said it was just part of his character than he was such an emotional Doctor but it was a shame we saw very little of the normal Tenth Doctor in this bar a few lighter moments at the beginning of The End Of Time.
My interpretation of that is that he thought he'd cheated death and the prophecy only for the four knocks to be Wilf. Hence his outburst. And we have seen that kind of outburst before from the classic Doctors. Doctor 1 could really become angry and Doctor 4 in his last season looked really pissed off and started shouting at Adric at times. And don't get me started on Doctor 6!
:pCome on leave the past alone , his exit is done now , i liked him and rose and glad he isss theree forr the 50th , letsss eenjoy dw as it is a family show
ok at times ittt wanes off , sso does corrie etc , thats tv for u
read a book if tv pisses u off ax
"The End of Time" did have a pretty bad exit for the Doctor, but in my opinion, the Doctor's exit was actually back in "The Waters of Mars" where he had that mental breakdown toward the end. Series 2-4 had the Doctor fighting against his "darker side", but then when "The Waters of Mars" came around, that dichotomy flipped and he was mostly "the Valeyard" (for lack of a better name) with his "Doctor" side trying to push its way through at various points (e.g. when he was raging about having to save Wilf before "the Doctor" took over and just saved him without any further complaint), until it forced its way all the way through during the regeneration (hence Matt's screaming - and it's in this sense that "regeneration" isn't just physical rejuvenation, but a rejuvenation of everything that makes him the Doctor). "The End of Time" was a bad exit for the Doctor, but that's because it wasn't an exit for the Doctor; it was an exit for "the Valeyard" and the full return of the Doctor (as the whole story was about the Doctor struggling to be "the Doctor" again).
Mentioned it many times before, and probably will after this.:D I thought this regeneration was awful. Ten is the only Doctor who has compared regeneration to death,and I didn't believe it for a minute, especially as Ten kept referring to events which concerned previous incarnations as his own experiences, surely very shabby writing.
The problem for me was that Ten wasn't 'a man' He was a vastly powerful alien who had already lived about 13 times more than the human 'three score years and ten'. He had seen more than everybody on this planet he was so fond of. It still wasn't enough for Doctor 'me, me, me', so it was impossible to sympathise.
And whose morality says that Ten has to give up his life for one of many humans? A human who yes was old and looking at the twilight years of his life. Compared to the last as you "vastly powerful" alien who yes had lived more years than most humans but could also live a heck of a lot longer. Why should 10 have to give up his thousands of years - especially when you know he is that important the stars go out when he dies - compared to a few more years for Wilf?
I actually think it is incredible the Doctor even contemplates doing it never mind does because there are a lot of humans who would think twice.
Regeneration is death though. Every incarnation is a different person (while being the same man... or woman as the case may be). As Five said in The Five Doctors, "a man is the sum of his memories". Once an incarnation is gone, it is gone and will never exist again. That specific combination of physical looks and personality is a one-time deal. I know if I were to wake up one day with a different body and personality, I wouldn't consider myself the same as the person I was the previous day; I'd just be a new person with the same memories, carrying on my own legacy.
:pCome on leave the past alone , his exit is done now , i liked him and rose and glad he isss theree forr the 50th , letsss eenjoy dw as it is a family show
ok at times ittt wanes off , sso does corrie etc , thats tv for u
read a book if tv pisses u off ax
Isn't the point of being on a forum to debate things to relive things and voice opinions? We may not agree with each other but that makes the debate better
Several posters have mentioned that towards the end of his time Doctor 10 was actualy or acting like, the Valyard. I don't think for one moment that RTD had even thought of that character and I'm still not convinced that the "Valyard" is indeed the last incarnation of the Doctor.
"The Valeyard" is just what I used in place of "the Doctor's dark side", because that's what the Valeyard is. Are you telling me that RTD had never thought of the dark side of the Doctor's character?
If ''I don't wan't to go'' became, ''I don't want to change'', then actually, that would make more sense.
But the problem with the episode is that it seems to be heavily impying that the he's actually replaced by the new man, rather than him becoming the new man, that for me was my only major issue with TEOT.
The way it's presented in the episode makes you think that the 11th doctor has somehow taken the 10th doctors life from him.
If ''I don't wan't to go'' became, ''I don't want to change'', then actually, that would make more sense.
But the problem with the episode is that it seems to be heavily impying that the he's actually replaced by the new man, rather than him becoming the new man, that for me was my only major issue with TEOT.
The way it's presented in the episode makes you think that the 11th doctor has somehow taken the 10th doctors life from him.
Well no, Regeneration must NEVER be portrayed as easy as trying on a new suit. It has to be something traumatic that the Doctor wants to avoid at all costs, otherwise there's no drama in it at all
(Witness how easy Romana tried on a new body and how no-one ever makes a big deal of her change as a big moment in Who history, just a quasi-embarrasing moment where she tries on a new body of someone she already met as if that was a good idea.....)
One thing you miss too. Ten put the TARDIS in flight before regenerating. I mean the process never goes smoothly for the doctor at the best of times. What was wrong with just getting in the TARDIS and regenerating? Why complicate an already dodgy and potentially dangerous scenerio
Well, in the real world, this was requested of RTD by Moffat who already had his "crashing through London into Amy's Garden" intro to The 11th Hour written.
In universe, he knew he was going to explode big stylee and decided to make sure he was well away from causing any harm.
I've no issue with Ten's reluctance to go, but I did find the "reward", his tour of companions, over long and not necessary as we'd said goodbye to his companions in Journey's End.
"The Valeyard" is just what I used in place of "the Doctor's dark side", because that's what the Valeyard is. Are you telling me that RTD had never thought of the dark side of the Doctor's character?
I'm sure he did, but there is no evidence to suggest that RTD was implying that it was "The Valyard" coming through that made the tenth Doctor act the way he did. I personaly thought the character of The Valyard was a terrible idea, certainly to suggest that he was an incarnation of the dark side of The Doctor didn't make much sense, but then not much of Trial Of A Timelord did.
Comments
I can totally understand why some feel it was overblown and melodramatic, but to me it made a lot of sense that Ten was so reluctant to "go". Everything that made that incarnation unique to that incarnation was about to be lost forever. I imagine that would be pretty difficult to deal with. This especially applies when one takes into account that Ten was around for a mere four years, whereas the other incarnations were generally around a lot longer from an in-universe perspective.
Also, whether we like it or not, Ten was one of the more "human" incarnations, so it seems the way his regeneration was handled was suitable for the character.
Nevertheless I would prefer something more akin to Nine's regeneration for Eleven i.e. low-key with a glimmer of hope. Eleven is clearly a different character to Ten emotionally and it wouldn't make sense to give him a similar send-off.
I guess that could be something to do with the radiation he'd absorbed, or perhaps because he had been holding off his regeneration the effect was more violent than normal?
Yes, but this dying man has died 9 times before and rarely (if at all) made a fuss - a couple of times because he didn't have a chance to...
That's San Francisco gang wars for you...
Although Ten having an emotional breakdown does make sense in relation to the unique nature of his character. I suppose, considering Nine didn't last that long, he was the first post-Time War Doc to lose companions and friends, and the pangs of failure, guilt and regret are probably far more exaggerated after such a supposedly traumatic period in his life.
This has carried on in Eleven in a way ("He doesn't like endings..." etc)
Actually, those would make good last words for Eleven, I think.
EXACTLY He was no more a wimp then any other incarnation of the Doctor. He knew what he had to do and what the result would be. Anyone who thinks regeneration is easy hasn't been watching the programme. He liked his current incarnation and quite rightly did'nt want it to end. Don't forget there is no cast iron guarantee that a severly injured Timelord will definately regenerate. If he/she is too far gone they may just die.In the end he did the correct,brave thing to do and sacrificed himself to save Wilf. I really don't understand why some people think that was the slightest bit wimpy.Who on here would have the guts to do that ?
Of course you can still argue that a centuries old Timelord should be a bit more pragmatic but then that wasn't really Ten's nature.
The problem for me was that Ten wasn't 'a man' He was a vastly powerful alien who had already lived about 13 times more than the human 'three score years and ten'. He had seen more than everybody on this planet he was so fond of. It still wasn't enough for Doctor 'me, me, me', so it was impossible to sympathise.
In spite of a healthy chance of regenerating, thus cheating death altogether, Ten whined so much that he made Wilf feel bad - despite the fact that he was only trapped because he'd saved someone else in the same predicament. I'll never rewatch it, but didn't he tell Ten to forget about him because he was old? Well what would that make Ten? I know he was written as a teen hero, to make it feasible that he and Rose could share the love of the century :rolleyes: but he was ancient. Would that whole relationship have appealed so much to a certain type of fan (and Rose herself) if it had been William Hartnell, instead of David Tennant? After all, Ten was centuries older than One, about twice as old. Somehow I doubt it, though (imo) it had all the romance of a slow teen seduced by her manipulative pensioner school caretaker. However the fans (and Rose) liked his hair and he looked young, so apparently it wasn't creepy at all.
I hope Moffat is inspired by Nine's departure which was both classic and classy, as well as raising a smile.
Ten was a Pussy.
If you've already decided that that is what Ten was, then there's no way that you could like any emotional reaction he could have.
And why the diversion into ranting about Rose? She wasn't even there!
I thought 9's exit was short and to the point. I think 11's will be more emotional though - 9 had only Rose to say goodbye to, 11 will have Clara, Madame Vastra, Jenny, Strax and most likely, River.
My interpretation of that is that he thought he'd cheated death and the prophecy only for the four knocks to be Wilf. Hence his outburst. And we have seen that kind of outburst before from the classic Doctors. Doctor 1 could really become angry and Doctor 4 in his last season looked really pissed off and started shouting at Adric at times. And don't get me started on Doctor 6!
So I would disagree that it was uncharacteristic.
ok at times ittt wanes off , sso does corrie etc , thats tv for u
read a book if tv pisses u off ax
Isn't the point of being on a forum to debate things to relive things and voice opinions? We may not agree with each other but that makes the debate better
But the problem with the episode is that it seems to be heavily impying that the he's actually replaced by the new man, rather than him becoming the new man, that for me was my only major issue with TEOT.
The way it's presented in the episode makes you think that the 11th doctor has somehow taken the 10th doctors life from him.
Well no, Regeneration must NEVER be portrayed as easy as trying on a new suit. It has to be something traumatic that the Doctor wants to avoid at all costs, otherwise there's no drama in it at all
(Witness how easy Romana tried on a new body and how no-one ever makes a big deal of her change as a big moment in Who history, just a quasi-embarrasing moment where she tries on a new body of someone she already met as if that was a good idea.....)
Well, in the real world, this was requested of RTD by Moffat who already had his "crashing through London into Amy's Garden" intro to The 11th Hour written.
In universe, he knew he was going to explode big stylee and decided to make sure he was well away from causing any harm.
I'm pretty sure this is how he will go.
I'm sure he did, but there is no evidence to suggest that RTD was implying that it was "The Valyard" coming through that made the tenth Doctor act the way he did. I personaly thought the character of The Valyard was a terrible idea, certainly to suggest that he was an incarnation of the dark side of The Doctor didn't make much sense, but then not much of Trial Of A Timelord did.