But if they don't stamp their feet and make a big fuss they wont get a) the publicity...b) the huge cash payout for *their* humiliation and *stress* and...c) they wont get to put yet another christian-run business out of business.
They could have ordered the cake and done the writing on it themselves. Surely the cake was the main thing they wanted, not the bloody writing on it >:(.
Nobody should be forced to write something they don't want to write.
Well said
No doubt this subject will run and run.........as usual!!!^_^
...
This is why I think it is important the law is clarified here - if necessary by a court case. The Equality Act is designed to protect individuals from discriminatory practices and I can't see direct discrimination here... but it might be a type of indirect discrimination (the Equality Commission think it is worth investigating)... so it needs to be made clear.
Now there you may have something. The other week someone was asking whether a "No Dogs" policy which was strictly enforced, even against guide dogs, was a form of discrimination.
No, not at all - I think it is important to clarify if there is an issue here in law or not. Discrimination in the provision of services is unlawful - and the better this is understood then the better we will be at preventing it and ensuring that people are treated equally.
I think its something that could be sorted out by themselves. Maybe order a plain cake and write whatever message they please on it. Or try another baker. You know that type of thing.
Theres nothing to stop someone taking the cake on the ferry over to mainland UK for a fabulous gay wedding though;-)
As someone who has had enough bother transporting a cake 2 miles the thought of a ferry ride is breakdown inducing
I think I'd be tempted to buy local and delegate the stress
They couldn't sell a gay wedding cake NI as it stands, because gay marriage has not been legalised there as yet.
They can sell a wedding cake anywhere. Doesn't mean it has to be used at some illegal underground gay wedding ceremony.
Murdering people is illegal too. But I could sell a cake depicting someone being murmured. Not sure what anyone would want one of those, but the point is. Just because it's illegal, there's no law saying 'making cakes depicting something illegal is also illegal'.
The jury maybe persuaded that the cake shop would refuse to sell a wedding cake to any gay couple, whith the happy couple on the cake and a congratulatory message on the cake. But would be happy to sell wedding cakes to straight couples with the happy couple on the cake and a.congratulatory message on the cake. So be desciminating against gay people.
They could be persuaded about a hypothetical situation that hasn't happened? Really?
Would a baker be similarly challenged for refusing to write the hypothetical phrase "Leviticus XVIII" on a cake, one of the Bible verses used against homosexuality.
All these mixed up analogies. Again we have a slogan ordered which could hypothetically attacks the baker rather than one which supports the customer. The correct analogy would be a 'SATAN ROCKS' cake ordered from a Christian baker.
All these mixed up analogies. Again we have a slogan ordered which could hypothetically attacks the baker rather than one which supports the customer. The correct analogy would be a 'SATAN ROCKS' cake ordered from a Christian baker.
.. and if the baker were gay and the customer a heterosexual Christian?
.. and if the baker were gay and the customer a heterosexual Christian?
I dont believe there is a group of people are routinely discriminated against by people who are gay so I'm not sure I understand your question. Why would a Christian ordering a "God loves you all" cake offend someone who was gay?
I think its something that could be sorted out by themselves. Maybe order a plain cake and write whatever message they please on it. Or try another baker. You know that type of thing.
Missing the point though - you can always give in to discrimination and unequal treatment, but we have laws that say you don't have to and we are all entitled to use them.
Missing the point though - you can always give in to discrimination and unequal treatment, but we have laws that say you don't have to and we are all entitled to use them.
Of course. But in general we turn to the law in serious matters. Using it in cake cases looks petulent.
Missing the point though - you can always give in to discrimination and unequal treatment, but we have laws that say you don't have to and we are all entitled to use them.
The baker was happy to bake the cake, just not write 'support gay marriage' on it. Should a gun have been held to his head to make him do so? because the equality commission is effectively doing just that. 'Bake the cake, inscribe it as the gay man wants and you'll avoid financial ruin!'.
Honestly, does being pedantic, demanding and a litigious cry-baby come part and parcel with being gay these days...?
The baker was happy to bake the cake, just not write 'support gay marriage' on it. Should a gun have been held to his head to make him do so? because the equality commission is effectively doing just that. 'Bake the cake, inscribe it as the gay man wants and you'll avoid financial ruin!'.
Honestly, does being pedantic, demanding and a litigious cry-baby come part and parcel with being gay these days...?
If the "Christian" baker could not face piping "support gay marriage" on a cake, then another non Christian baker could have done it. It is the shops responsibility to make sure that the service is equally provided but how the shop managed that was up to them.
If the "Christian" baker could not face piping "support gay marriage" on a cake, then another non Christian baker could have done it. It is the shops responsibility to make sure that the service is equally provided but how the shop managed that was up to them.
So if you want a cake with whatever written on it it is my responsibility to see that you get it against all odds and not yours to go and get it yourself...?
We are talking about a bloody cake here.....how does one discriminate against a cake?
Could I suggest you read from the beginning of the thread if you think the entire debate has been about a bloody cake. I was talking about law and if action was taken against the baker it would on the basis of discrimination against a specified group.
So if you want a cake with whatever written on it it is my responsibility to see that you get it against all odds and not yours to go and get it yourself...?
Is it really worth all this rubbish...?
Gay people need to have a word with themselves.
I'm not sure where you factor in this case....are you the baker?
Comments
Well said
No doubt this subject will run and run.........as usual!!!^_^
Hysterical
Now there you may have something. The other week someone was asking whether a "No Dogs" policy which was strictly enforced, even against guide dogs, was a form of discrimination.
I think its something that could be sorted out by themselves. Maybe order a plain cake and write whatever message they please on it. Or try another baker. You know that type of thing.
As someone who has had enough bother transporting a cake 2 miles the thought of a ferry ride is breakdown inducing
I think I'd be tempted to buy local and delegate the stress
They can sell a wedding cake anywhere. Doesn't mean it has to be used at some illegal underground gay wedding ceremony.
Murdering people is illegal too. But I could sell a cake depicting someone being murmured. Not sure what anyone would want one of those, but the point is. Just because it's illegal, there's no law saying 'making cakes depicting something illegal is also illegal'.
All these mixed up analogies. Again we have a slogan ordered which could hypothetically attacks the baker rather than one which supports the customer. The correct analogy would be a 'SATAN ROCKS' cake ordered from a Christian baker.
.. and if the baker were gay and the customer a heterosexual Christian?
I dont believe there is a group of people are routinely discriminated against by people who are gay so I'm not sure I understand your question. Why would a Christian ordering a "God loves you all" cake offend someone who was gay?
Hypothetically a person, regardless of sexuality, refused a cake with an anti gay slogan.
Were the cakes refused because of the (unknown) sexuality of the person ordering or the wording on the cake?
Missing the point though - you can always give in to discrimination and unequal treatment, but we have laws that say you don't have to and we are all entitled to use them.
In what way was the slogan anti gay?
Of course. But in general we turn to the law in serious matters. Using it in cake cases looks petulent.
The baker was happy to bake the cake, just not write 'support gay marriage' on it. Should a gun have been held to his head to make him do so? because the equality commission is effectively doing just that. 'Bake the cake, inscribe it as the gay man wants and you'll avoid financial ruin!'.
Honestly, does being pedantic, demanding and a litigious cry-baby come part and parcel with being gay these days...?
Discrimination is a serious matter and if it goes to court that will be the reason.
If the "Christian" baker could not face piping "support gay marriage" on a cake, then another non Christian baker could have done it. It is the shops responsibility to make sure that the service is equally provided but how the shop managed that was up to them.
We are talking about a bloody cake here.....how does one discriminate against a cake?
Cake refusal. Extremely serious stuff.^_^
So if you want a cake with whatever written on it it is my responsibility to see that you get it against all odds and not yours to go and get it yourself...?
Is it really worth all this rubbish...?
Gay people need to have a word with themselves.
Could I suggest you read from the beginning of the thread if you think the entire debate has been about a bloody cake. I was talking about law and if action was taken against the baker it would on the basis of discrimination against a specified group.
Read above
I'm not sure where you factor in this case....are you the baker?
Yeah I did. Serious serious business cakes.