Time for the 'other' Parties to get the act together?

bingomanbingoman Posts: 23,934
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Following UkIps win in Clacton and how close there where in Heywood & Middleton is time for the Other parties like the Green & Respect to get the Act together and try & do what UKIP have done by getting voters who are fed up with the 3 main Parties to switch to there party with Causes the voter what to hear:confused:

So why are the like of the Greens, Respect not picking up disaffected(sp) voters from other parites like UKIP are doing and what do they need to take on the three main parties and take votes off them :confused:

Does the Green Party need to move into the LIb Dems areas and pick up the Student vote & the anti War party like the Lib Dems did in 2003 to get more votes & and does the Respect Party need to move into the Labour area of picking uo working class Voters :confused:

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  • trunkstertrunkster Posts: 14,468
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    bingoman wrote: »
    Following UkIps win in Clacton and how close there where in Heywood & Middleton is time for the Other parties like the Green & Respect to get the Act together and try & do what UKIP have done by getting voters who are fed up with the 3 main Parties to switch to there party with Causes the voter what to hear:confused:

    So why are the like of the Greens, Respect not picking up disaffected(sp) voters from other parites like UKIP are doing and what do they need to take on the three main parties and take votes off them :confused:

    Does the Green Party need to move into the LIb Dems areas and pick up the Student vote & the anti War party like the Lib Dems did in 2003 to get more votes & and does the Respect Party need to move into the Labour area of picking uo working class Voters :confused:

    impossible - The Green Party will never attract working class voters. It's just a vanity project for middle class hippies, dreamers and various unhinged DS posters
  • deptfordbakerdeptfordbaker Posts: 22,368
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    Labour are still continuing with their policy of patronising, I'm sorry I mean educating their non metropolitan, working class, core voters on why mass immigration is actually great for the country. They plan to also focus on relieving the pressure on housing, schools, NHS, so people aren't so negative in who they blame. Of course it wont work as they don't have the money and Labour elitists don't live in communities that are being changed.

    I mean what exactly does Ed mean about people being fed up with Westminster politics, that is just words, give some examples. What does he propose to do about it, why doesn't he say now?
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
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    People are more likely to buy into right-wing populism.

    The GP suffers from something of an 'image' problem. If more working class people truly understood what the party stands for I'm sure it would get a lot more support.

    Having said that though, GP votes and members have been slowly, but steadily growing for years..
  • trunkstertrunkster Posts: 14,468
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    Labour are still continuing with their policy of patronising, I'm sorry I mean educating their non metropolitan, working class, core voters on why mass immigration is actually great for the country. They plan to also focus on relieving the pressure on housing, schools, NHS, so people aren't so negative in who they blame. Of course it wont work as they don't have the money and Labour elitists don't live in communities that are being changed.

    I mean what exactly does Ed mean about people being fed up with Westminster politics, that is just words, give some examples. What does he propose to do about it, why doesn't he say now?

    You also heard his mealy mouthed reaction today. Basically it was we need to pretend to listen to people's concerns get elected and then ignore them again.
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
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    trunkster wrote: »
    impossible - The Green Party will never attract working class voters. It's just a vanity project for middle class hippies, dreamers and various unhinged DS posters

    To be honest Green Politics may be the only long term solution we have left.

    It's extremely worrying the way that no other parties seem to have any real foresight or ability to plan sustainably.
  • trunkstertrunkster Posts: 14,468
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    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    People are more likely to buy into right-wing populism.

    The GP suffers from something of an 'image' problem. If more working class people truly understood what the party stands for I'm sure it would get a lot more support.

    Having said that though, GP votes and members have been slowly, but steadily growing for years..

    What does the Labour Party stand for then?
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
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    trunkster wrote: »
    What does the Labour Party stand for then?

    Not the people any more, that's for sure!
  • deptfordbakerdeptfordbaker Posts: 22,368
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    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    To be honest Green Politics may be the only long term solution we have left.

    It's extremely worrying the way that no other parties seem to have any real foresight or ability to plan sustainably.

    Their leaders was talking to Sky News last night and went on about mass immigration being good and UKIP being nasty etc.

    She does realise that people moving about the world is very bad for the environment, not just because of air travel, but because of the amount of resources they use up when they move to a developed country?

    Mass immigration and green polices are sort of mutually exclusive.
  • trunkstertrunkster Posts: 14,468
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    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    To be honest Green Politics may be the only long term solution we have left.

    It's extremely worrying the way that no other parties seem to have any real foresight or ability to plan sustainably.

    I know it's hard to swallow but the working class are more concerned about putting bread on their table, not how many uneconomical and inefficient wind farms they've helped pay for in green stealth taxes.
  • deptfordbakerdeptfordbaker Posts: 22,368
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    trunkster wrote: »
    What does the Labour Party stand for then?

    I would say they are heading towards being a metropolitan party of the middle classes, which represents liberals and ethnic minorities. They are losing their roots for sure.

    Mind you I wouldn't count on the ethnic minorities. Those that are spreading out seem to be changing their voting patterns and becoming more individual.

    Not to worry, Labour will just import a whole load more migrants and give them citizenship and voting rights, even if it means the end of the welfare state.
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
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    Their leaders was talking to Sky News last night and went on about mass immigration being good and UKIP being nasty etc.

    She does realise that people moving about the world is very bad for the environment, not just because of air travel, but because of the amount of resources they use up when they move to a developed country?

    Mass immigration and green polices are sort of mutually exclusive.

    Not at all.

    There's only one world. It doesn't matter whether you're in The UK or Iran, we are still all working from the same pool of natural resources that are slowly dwindling.

    Unless you're willing to stop having children, it's hypocritical to claim an anti-immigration position is somehow also a green/environmentalist viewpoint. It really isn't. Global overpopulation is the core issue.
    trunkster wrote: »
    I know it's hard to swallow but the working class are more concerned about putting bread on their table, not how many uneconomical and inefficient wind farms they've helped pay for in green stealth taxes.

    The thing is though, this just highlights my point.

    I'm sure you would think that if that's all you thought the GP was about, but it stands for social, economical and constitutional issues as well as environmental. The whole point is it's about creating a bit of a better world for everybody, in every way possible.
  • trunkstertrunkster Posts: 14,468
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    I would say they are heading towards being a metropolitan party of the middle classes, which represents liberals and ethnic minorities. They are losing their roots for sure.

    Mind you I wouldn't count on the ethnic minorities. Those that are spreading out seem to be changing their voting patterns and becoming more individual.

    Not to worry, Labour will just import a whole load more migrants and give them citizenship and voting rights, even if it means the end of the welfare state.

    True, the Labour Party is now just chock full of career politicians, academics and their students off spring. All they need to do is keep the working class proles hooked on benefits and make the right noises occasionally.
    It's true a lot of migrants are aspirational, and will tire of Labour.
  • deptfordbakerdeptfordbaker Posts: 22,368
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    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    Not at all.
    There's only one world. It doesn't matter whether you're in The UK or Iran, we are still all working from the same pool of natural resources that are slowly dwindling.

    But it's consumption as well as production.

    I read some one in the developing world consumes one hectare of world resources, whereas for people in Britain it is five and America it's ten, or something like that.

    So mass immigration to Britain from the developing world means people consume more resources and produce more pollution.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,180
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    Ukip have a number of advantages. They're a right wing party offering simple solutions in tough times. They have attached their grievances (EU and Immigration) to the anger and general disillusionment of many members of the public. They have millions to spend on big poster campaigns and leaflets, unlike the others, and they have the image of Nigel Farage.

    Most people agree we need to find answers to deal with the free movement of people when we haven't been building nearly enough social housing for years, but can ukip's divisive rhetoric ever really help with that? At least Labour are saying they will bring in a number of measures to prevent the exploitation of migrant workers. Ukip and Tories have nothing to say about it. http://press.labour.org.uk/post/82301767869/labour-will-tackle-the-exploitation-of-migrant-workers

    The Green Party is growing all the time, but the best hope of defeating Tories and Ukip is with a Labour win, and praying that they stand strong against the crony influences. I would give up a lot to go down to Brighton and see that Caroline Lucas gets reelected though. Labour should be staying out of Brighton.
  • LyricalisLyricalis Posts: 57,958
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    bingoman wrote: »
    Following UkIps win in Clacton and how close there where in Heywood & Middleton is time for the Other parties like the Green & Respect to get the Act together and try & do what UKIP have done by getting voters who are fed up with the 3 main Parties to switch to there party with Causes the voter what to hear:confused:

    So why are the like of the Greens, Respect not picking up disaffected(sp) voters from other parites like UKIP are doing and what do they need to take on the three main parties and take votes off them :confused:

    Does the Green Party need to move into the LIb Dems areas and pick up the Student vote & the anti War party like the Lib Dems did in 2003 to get more votes & and does the Respect Party need to move into the Labour area of picking uo working class Voters :confused:

    The main problem that the Greens have is that their policies will involve real change and effort on the part of the electorate, whereas most of the other parties try to pretend they can create real change without actually changing anything, which is simply not possible.
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
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    But it's consumption as well as production.

    I read some one in the developing world consumes one hectare of world resources, whereas for people in Britain it is five and America it's ten, or something like that.

    So mass immigration to Britain from the developing world means people consume more resources and produce more pollution.

    Yes but the point is they don't have to - that's just what we unsustainably do at the moment.

    Green policies focus on sustainable living and fair wealth/resource distribution.

    Global overpopulation is a separate issue which is solved by encouraging people not to have so many children.

    Immigration is irrelevant to the bigger environmental picture, but I'll concede it can affect things at the very local level - this can be overcome with half decent planning though, something most local authorities severely lack.
  • plateletplatelet Posts: 26,382
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    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    Green policies focus on sustainable living and fair wealth/resource distribution.

    The abolition of electricity; massive taxes on anything that earns anything; the entire country on benefits; and puppies & kittens for all.

    It's an argument that would probably help win a few of the LD seats and as long as they've got no chance of getting any real power they may as well use it.
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,566
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    platelet wrote: »
    The abolition of electricity; massive taxes on anything that earns anything; the entire country on benefits; and puppies & kittens for all.

    It's an argument that would probably help win a few of the LD seats and as long as they've got no chance of getting any real power they may as well use it.

    You write as though they were actually making such an argument. I'm not sure why you would do that.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,074
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    bingoman wrote: »
    Following UkIps win in Clacton and how close there where in Heywood & Middleton is time for the Other parties like the Green & Respect to get the Act together and try & do what UKIP have done by getting voters who are fed up with the 3 main Parties to switch to there party with Causes the voter what to hear:confused
    Green & Respect lack the big financial backers and media coverage UKIP enjoys. UKIP sells it self to Joe Public as the anti EU anti immigrant and grass roots led people's party for the working man, while in reality its policies are overall very pro the wealthy and pro employers anti tax and anti employee rights and state provision of services. UKIP in reality looks like what the American's call an astro turf party.
  • BoyardBoyard Posts: 5,393
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    Labour shouldn't be trying appeal to the working classes. They should BE the working class. That's where they've gone wrong.
  • JerrybobJerrybob Posts: 1,685
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    Ukip have a number of advantages. They're a right wing party offering simple solutions in tough times. They have attached their grievances (EU and Immigration) to the anger and general disillusionment of many members of the public. They have millions to spend on big poster campaigns and leaflets, unlike the others, and they have the image of Nigel Farage.

    Most people agree we need to find answers to deal with the free movement of people when we haven't been building nearly enough social housing for years, but can ukip's divisive rhetoric ever really help with that? At least Labour are saying they will bring in a number of measures to prevent the exploitation of migrant workers. Ukip and Tories have nothing to say about it. http://press.labour.org.uk/post/82301767869/labour-will-tackle-the-exploitation-of-migrant-workers

    The Green Party is growing all the time, but the best hope of defeating Tories and Ukip is with a Labour win, and praying that they stand strong against the crony influences. I would give up a lot to go down to Brighton and see that Caroline Lucas gets reelected though. Labour should be staying out of Brighton.


    I think it's more the volume of migrant workers that voters have a problem with more than the exploitation of them (wrong though it is). Labour just can't seem to grasp that immigration is in the top 3 concerns of voters and yet they don't have a solution to bringing it under control. Milliband conveniently forgot to even mention it in his speech the other week.
  • JerrybobJerrybob Posts: 1,685
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    Green & Respect lack the big financial backers and media coverage UKIP enjoys. UKIP sells it self to Joe Public as the anti EU anti immigrant and grass roots led people's party for the working man, while in reality its policies are overall very pro the wealthy and pro employers anti tax and anti employee rights and state provision of services. UKIP in reality looks like what the American's call an astro turf party.

    Given how much we pay in green taxes on our fuel bills I can't see the Greens gaining that much support to be honest.
  • MagnamundianMagnamundian Posts: 2,359
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    trunkster wrote: »
    impossible - The Green Party will never attract working class voters. It's just a vanity project for middle class hippies, dreamers and various unhinged DS posters

    So exactly like the Lib Dems before coalition government?
  • MagnamundianMagnamundian Posts: 2,359
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    But it's consumption as well as production.

    I read some one in the developing world consumes one hectare of world resources, whereas for people in Britain it is five and America it's ten, or something like that.

    So mass immigration to Britain from the developing world means people consume more resources and produce more pollution.

    I suppose it depends on whether people moving to the developed world causes them to have fewer children due to the lower need to have relatives to look after you in old age?

    GP would help themselves massively if they avoided touting their immigration policy and concentrated on their other policies instead.

    LVT could be a winner if replacing council tax/business rates and was levied on the land owner (not the tenant) regardless of whether the land is being used or not. There are great swathes of the urban country which is being sat on by developers at little or no cost, these developers will sit on these assets until either a very profitable development prospect appears.

    LVT could be used to make it costly to sit on brownfield sites, prompting developers to build more homes at prices that are affordable rather than sitting on the land until joe public can afford their prices again.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,074
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    Jerrybob wrote: »
    Given how much we pay in green taxes on our fuel bills I can't see the Greens gaining that much support to be honest.
    The Greens did not impose the green taxes.
    Maybe the Coalition should introduce an increase in general VAT or a charge on using the NHS and call the tax or NHS charge the UKIP tax.
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