Well, if someone doesn't know that gay people don't choose their sexuality (no-one does) then they are ignorant of the facts. If they continue to think it, despite being told the truth, then they are wilfully ignorant. How sexuality works isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of biology.
I agreed with your last point yet seem to make the same point just to hammer it home. look im not disagreeing with you.
The point i was making is people have different views.
I think there are certain norms that are expected of people in society, and people who do not conform - either naturally or putting in the effort to ensure that they don't - should be subject to some form of public criticism.
You don't really understand the whole "opinion" thing do you?
I do Flat Matt, but 'being gay is a choice' is wrong - sexuality is not chosen. That's not an opinion... that is a fact. You can choose to act on your sexuality, but you cannot choose what it is.
I do Flat Matt, but 'being gay is a choice' is wrong - sexuality is not chosen. That's not an opinion... that is a fact. You can choose to act on your sexuality, but you cannot choose what it is.
I apologise, I was just being a bit of a shit.
You're right, anyone who holds the opinion that you can choose your sexuality is wrong. As you say, it's a matter of biology and not a choice.
I think there are certain norms that are expected of people in society, and people who do not conform - either naturally or putting in the effort to ensure that they don't - should be subject to some form of public criticism.
You're right, anyone who holds the opinion that you can choose your sexuality is wrong. As you say, it's a matter of biology and not a choice.
No worries. It is a dangerous view for people to hold as well - which is why I always try to clarify it. One of the common themes in, for example, the recriminalisation of homosexuality in Uganda and elsewhere, is that gay people choose to be that way so it is justifiable to make it a crime.
I think there are certain norms that are expected of people in society, and people who do not conform - either naturally or putting in the effort to ensure that they don't - should be subject to some form of public criticism.
As long as they're not hurting anyone else, why should anyone be criticised for not conforming to norms?
No worries. It is a dangerous view for people to hold as well - which is why I always try to clarify it. One of the common themes in, for example, the recriminalisation of homosexuality in Uganda and elsewhere, is that gay people choose to be that way so it is justifiable to make it a crime.
The situation in Uganda beggars belief.
Someone on Facebook posted a photo of a gay man in Uganda who had been set on fire the other day. Not much shocks me, but that sure as hell did.
Someone on Facebook posted a photo of a gay man in Uganda who had been set on fire the other day. Not much shocks me, but that sure as hell did.
Unbelievable.
Uganda is a nightmare for gay people, but then Nigeria is also toughening up its laws along similar lines and India's Supreme Court just resurrected their laws criminalising homosexuality. Frightening.
If they are using it instead of saying someone is gay then they are though, which is the context we are discussing.
I was replying to someone who said they'd heard the phrase used, but not really offensively. It wasn't clear that it was being used to describe gay people, or just a phrase they'd heard and misunderstood. I wanted to reassure that poster that it wasn't automatically homophobic. In fact, used correctly, it's not homophobic at all.
To repeat, I know "bent" can be used to mean gay, and I know it's an easy mistake to make on both sides. That was fundamental to my point!
I'm not sure why you are so hell bent (ahem) on picking a fight over this. Nothing I've said is wrong. I'm simply offering an alternative explanation that might actually make that poster feel better about the people he's heard using the phrase.
Also, if his mum tells him to "watch out for that John down the road. He's as bent as a nine bob note", then it probably means his mum isn't homophobic, just warning him not to lend him money.
I was replying to someone who said they'd heard the phrase used, but not really offensively. It wasn't clear that it was being used to describe gay people, or just a phrase they'd heard and misunderstood. I wanted to reassure that poster that it wasn't automatically homophobic. In fact, used correctly, it's not homophobic at all.
To repeat, I know "bent" can be used to mean gay, and I know it's an easy mistake to make on both sides. That was fundamental to my point!
I'm not sure why you are so hell bent (ahem) on picking a fight over this. Nothing I've said is wrong. I'm simply offering an alternative explanation that might actually make that poster feel better about the people he's heard using the phrase.
Also, if his mum tells him to "watch out for that John down the road. He's as bent as a nine bob note", then it probably means his mum isn't homophobic, just warning him not to lend him money.
I was replying to someone who said they'd heard the phrase used, but not really offensively. It wasn't clear that it was being used to describe gay people, or just a phrase they'd heard and misunderstood. I wanted to reassure that poster that it wasn't automatically homophobic. In fact, used correctly, it's not homophobic at all.
I thought I had specified it was only used by my parents in relation to sexuality. I guess not. It's used in the context such as 'Oh, I saw him with some girl. Maybe it's his girlfriend.' 'Girlfiend? He's bent as a nine bob note.' or something like that. It's only really used by them when saying someone's gay when it's seemingly obvious, but someone didn't know (if that makes sense).
I certainly would call out people for being racist and/or homophobic, and have done.
My parents haven't a bigoted bone in their bodies, but I did have a contretemps with an acquaintance, the same generation as they are.
She was homophobic 'they don't call them queer for nothing' and horrifyingly racist.
I wasn't prepared to let her make her ignorant statements and not be pulled up for it. She hasn't spoken to me since.[/QUOTE]
No, it isn't someone's choice to be gay - but it is someone's choice to be a homophobe. So you are half right.
Is it, though?
I mean, if we accept that people can't choose their sexuality, we must concede that others are also born without the capacity to accept same-sex partnerships.
I mean, if we accept that people can't choose their sexuality, we must concede that others are also born without the capacity to accept same-sex partnerships.
Maybe we do. I suppose some people are born stupid and nasty, and we can't fix stupid and nasty.
I mean, if we accept that people can't choose their sexuality, we must concede that others are also born without the capacity to accept same-sex partnerships.
Why do we have to concede that? Lots of people (examples have been given in this thread) have changed their minds about gay people once they meet them; have family members who are gay; learn about it through the media etc.
Why do we have to concede that? Lots of people (examples have been given in this thread) have changed their minds about gay people once they meet them; have family members who are gay; learn about it through the media etc.
Why? Well gay people can choose to not act on their natural instincts and bigots can also choose to not act on their natural instincts. It just seems a bit skewed to only say that gay people don't choose to be gay, but bigots do choose to be bigots. For me, I don't get too friendly/close to anyone whose clearly bigoted.....now, that's again just my natural reaction to that type of behaviour.
What did I say that was wrong? Why did you want to disagree with me if you weren't looking for a fight?
Remember, I never said that "bent" couldn't mean gay, so please stop trying to correct me on that one.
I pointed out the origin of the phrase "bent as a nine bob note" to give an alternative perspective on why it might be used. I accepted that it might be used incorrectly, so why take offence? Just because things some other posters say wound you up isn't an excuse not to read my posts properly and assume I'm being ignorant.
I was explaining that in the context of the phrase "bent as a 9 bob note" it means criminal, not homosexual (or flexible).
I'm not saying some people haven't mixed their metaphors, but most people using the phrase aren't even thinking of sexuality, never mind being homophobic.
I mean, if we accept that people can't choose their sexuality, we must concede that others are also born without the capacity to accept same-sex partnerships.
No child is born without the capacity to accept same-sex partnerships. Children only learn what they see and what they are taught.
Comments
You seem to have hit the nail on the head, without réalisation
I agreed with your last point yet seem to make the same point just to hammer it home. look im not disagreeing with you.
The point i was making is people have different views.
Yes, they really are - it's that simple
Actually you said 'they are not right and they are not wrong' - well they are wrong, and that is why I replied.
In what way, 'without realisation'?
In your opinion.
You don't really understand the whole "opinion" thing do you?
I do Flat Matt, but 'being gay is a choice' is wrong - sexuality is not chosen. That's not an opinion... that is a fact. You can choose to act on your sexuality, but you cannot choose what it is.
I apologise, I was just being a bit of a shit.
You're right, anyone who holds the opinion that you can choose your sexuality is wrong. As you say, it's a matter of biology and not a choice.
Why?
No worries. It is a dangerous view for people to hold as well - which is why I always try to clarify it. One of the common themes in, for example, the recriminalisation of homosexuality in Uganda and elsewhere, is that gay people choose to be that way so it is justifiable to make it a crime.
As long as they're not hurting anyone else, why should anyone be criticised for not conforming to norms?
The situation in Uganda beggars belief.
Someone on Facebook posted a photo of a gay man in Uganda who had been set on fire the other day. Not much shocks me, but that sure as hell did.
Unbelievable.
Uganda is a nightmare for gay people, but then Nigeria is also toughening up its laws along similar lines and India's Supreme Court just resurrected their laws criminalising homosexuality. Frightening.
I was replying to someone who said they'd heard the phrase used, but not really offensively. It wasn't clear that it was being used to describe gay people, or just a phrase they'd heard and misunderstood. I wanted to reassure that poster that it wasn't automatically homophobic. In fact, used correctly, it's not homophobic at all.
To repeat, I know "bent" can be used to mean gay, and I know it's an easy mistake to make on both sides. That was fundamental to my point!
I'm not sure why you are so hell bent (ahem) on picking a fight over this. Nothing I've said is wrong. I'm simply offering an alternative explanation that might actually make that poster feel better about the people he's heard using the phrase.
Also, if his mum tells him to "watch out for that John down the road. He's as bent as a nine bob note", then it probably means his mum isn't homophobic, just warning him not to lend him money.
Disagreeing with you isn't 'picking a fight'.
I thought I had specified it was only used by my parents in relation to sexuality. I guess not. It's used in the context such as 'Oh, I saw him with some girl. Maybe it's his girlfriend.' 'Girlfiend? He's bent as a nine bob note.' or something like that. It's only really used by them when saying someone's gay when it's seemingly obvious, but someone didn't know (if that makes sense).
Didn't mean to start a riot
Is it, though?
I mean, if we accept that people can't choose their sexuality, we must concede that others are also born without the capacity to accept same-sex partnerships.
Maybe we do. I suppose some people are born stupid and nasty, and we can't fix stupid and nasty.
Why do we have to concede that? Lots of people (examples have been given in this thread) have changed their minds about gay people once they meet them; have family members who are gay; learn about it through the media etc.
Why? Well gay people can choose to not act on their natural instincts and bigots can also choose to not act on their natural instincts. It just seems a bit skewed to only say that gay people don't choose to be gay, but bigots do choose to be bigots. For me, I don't get too friendly/close to anyone whose clearly bigoted.....now, that's again just my natural reaction to that type of behaviour.
What did I say that was wrong? Why did you want to disagree with me if you weren't looking for a fight?
Remember, I never said that "bent" couldn't mean gay, so please stop trying to correct me on that one.
I pointed out the origin of the phrase "bent as a nine bob note" to give an alternative perspective on why it might be used. I accepted that it might be used incorrectly, so why take offence? Just because things some other posters say wound you up isn't an excuse not to read my posts properly and assume I'm being ignorant.
Say what?
No child is born without the capacity to accept same-sex partnerships. Children only learn what they see and what they are taught.