[QUOTE=noise747;72506576]I am glad I never had kids, I would not like them or their own kids to grow up in a country where privacy is even less than it is now.[/QUOTE]
The moment your parents register your birth your in the system and no getting out of it. There is a lot of your personal data held and used by all sorts so I really don't understand the reluctance some members have toward a DNA database or ID cards. You have no real privacy now.
The moment your parents register your birth your in the system and no getting out of it. There is a lot of your personal data held and used by all sorts so I really don't understand the reluctance some members have toward a DNA database or ID cards. You have no real privacy now.
Indeed. It's called progression and also makes life a bit easier for all around. If some people had their way we'd be still writing data on stone tablets.
The moment your parents register your birth your in the system and no getting out of it. There is a lot of your personal data held and used by all sorts so I really don't understand the reluctance some members have toward a DNA database or ID cards. You have no real privacy now.
We have DPA legislation protecting that data - with the exception of the DNA database where the protection doesn't apply
Indeed. It's called progression and also makes life a bit easier for all around.
No not for all, for most. That's the point of discrimination. When that data is being mined to determine and underclass of people more likely to suffer from genetic illnesses so that those that are most likely to need it can be excluded from private medical cover and life assurance, or conversely the healthy can be refused an annuity. (Of course once Private Medical cover is unavailable, these genetic scroungers become an unfair burden on the NHS.)
when the data associated with those arrested is handed over to private companies to run analysis against those “having typical Muslim names”, or "names considered to be Asian or African" - where exactly do you think that is heading?
with the endless abuses of data by the government and private companies we've seen in recent years the one certainty is: the data will leak once it becomes valuable enough.
are you really comfortable with Anonymous having your entire genetic fingerprint at their fingertips? Think of the lolz to be had. And if you're okay with that what about Astrazeneca Pfizer? What about Aviva? What about al Qaeda?
a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically worked into an organized system. It may be an aspect of chronic personality disorder, of drug abuse, or of a serious condition such as schizophrenia in which the person loses touch with reality.
synonyms: persecution complex, delusions, obsession, megalomania, monomania; More
psychosis
unjustified suspicion and mistrust of other people.:D:D
Have you heard of Edward Snowden?
Proposed sell off of Tax records?
Abuse of data and functions by Local Authorities?
And of course all future Governments will be benign.
Probably not. Many of the concerns have been explained quite clearly.
I'm coming at it from a slightly different perspective because I grew up in a place where the government wasn't benign (yes, I know that could be taken in all kinds of directions ) and was very much focused on controlling the population. Let's put it this way, you had to watch what you said in front of the neighbours and a keen interest in politics could considerably shorten your life.
Of course that's not Britain in 2014, and I very much hope it never will be. But history shows that things change. One minute you're a wealthy business owner and the next you're on a cattle train heading for a labour camp. An extreme example of course but all I have to do is look back at, say, three generations of my immediate family, and I can see how quickly enormous changes can happen, how power bases shift, and how nothing to hide can become something you do very much want to keep hidden.
I'm not paranoid. I'm not afraid that a regime change is looming or that a compulsory DNA database would automatically doom us all. But I would and do say a big no to compulsion because once we do this it won't be undone, and who knows what the world will be like in years to come.
Government already holds far too much data on us and they are hopeless at guarding that. Of course, the authoritarians would be foaming at the mouth at the prospect of such a database.
I think that the benefits of catching criminals probably outweigh the risks of miscarriages of justice,
So I would be in favour, but I just can't trust the authorities not to misuse the data so I'm voting no.
I hear a lot of 'oh my privacy, my privacy' type stuff but not much in the way of what this actually means in a practical sense. How do people think having their DNA on a database will actually affect them day to day if at all?
Secondly I'm actually pretty amazed there are people who are not just dismissing the number of rape/ murders etc that might be solved (and rapists/ murderers taken off the streets and convicted), but are hypothesizing that a load of mistakes/ wrongful convictions would occur, or that some evil megalomaniac in the government will use it for unsavoury means.
Again, not sure how people come to these conclusions. If anything the number of mistakes/wrongful convictions made would be lowered, and if we get a government who wish to completely toss ethics out the window and act all evil. then a bit of DNA being on a database should be pretty far down the list of concerns I'd say.
People give up their blood type, pictures of their physical identity, they are captured on CCTV multiple times a day, they compile a census, they let governments record their consumption habits and and a whole host of other things that don't have the potential benefits of a DNA database.
Why are some ok to have their picture and DOB etc on a passport / driving licence but not have a record of their DNA on file? It makes no sense to me.
I agree with the poster who said there seems to be an awful lot of paranoia on here.
For me the potential pros don't just outweigh the cons, they annihilate them.
The moment your parents register your birth your in the system and no getting out of it. There is a lot of your personal data held and used by all sorts so I really don't understand the reluctance some members have toward a DNA database or ID cards. You have no real privacy now.
You are right there is a lot of personal data held, far too much, but it is still possible to have privacy. I can still go out for walks without anyone knowing where I am., turn my phone off and i left in peace. the places I go for walks don't have any cameras.
even if i go into town, I could put a hood on so the cameras would not know who I am, not that I would, but I could. but even so the cameras don't know who I am or the people watching them, unless they personally know me.
There is no need for anyone to have my DNA and there is no need for me to have a I.d card, I have done without one for 40 years, so what would I need one now?
If we had a I.D card, it could come to the stage where we have to present it just to buy goods, like in some other countries. Thankfully, the Tories did do one good thing and that is getting rid of the I.d card system and I even if Labour gets in again, I can not see them starting it up again, it will cost too much and having everyone's DNA on a database will not happen for many years if at all.
I know the tories are trying to get people on more databases with the NHS database, but thankfully, we can opt out of that.
Indeed. It's called progression and also makes life a bit easier for all around. If some people had their way we'd be still writing data on stone tablets.
I hear a lot of 'oh my privacy, my privacy' type stuff but not much in the way of what this actually means in a practical sense. How do people think having their DNA on a database will actually affect them day to day if at all?
Secondly I'm actually pretty amazed there are people who are not just dismissing the number of rape/ murders etc that might be solved (and rapists/ murderers taken off the streets and convicted), but are hypothesizing that a load of mistakes/ wrongful convictions would occur, or that some evil megalomaniac in the government will use it for unsavoury means.
Again, not sure how people come to these conclusions. If anything the number of mistakes/wrongful convictions made would be lowered, and if we get a government who wish to completely toss ethics out the window and act all evil. then a bit of DNA being on a database should be pretty far down the list of concerns I'd say.
People give up their blood type, pictures of their physical identity, they are captured on CCTV multiple times a day, they compile a census, they let governments record their consumption habits and and a whole host of other things that don't have the potential benefits of a DNA database.
Why are some ok to have their picture and DOB etc on a passport / driving licence but not have a record of their DNA on file? It makes no sense to me.
I agree with the poster who said there seems to be an awful lot of paranoia on here.
For me the potential pros don't just outweigh the cons, they annihilate them.
Good post and agreed. Some people just think that their close ones and themselves are immune to violent crimes, but if it did happen then I'm sure they'd want the police to pull out all the stops to find the culprit, including DNA matching.
Probably not. Many of the concerns have been explained quite clearly.
I'm coming at it from a slightly different perspective because I grew up in a place where the government wasn't benign (yes, I know that could be taken in all kinds of directions ) and was very much focused on controlling the population. Let's put it this way, you had to watch what you said in front of the neighbours and a keen interest in politics could considerably shorten your life.
Of course that's not Britain in 2014, and I very much hope it never will be. But history shows that things change. One minute you're a wealthy business owner and the next you're on a cattle train heading for a labour camp. An extreme example of course but all I have to do is look back at, say, three generations of my immediate family, and I can see how quickly enormous changes can happen, how power bases shift, and how nothing to hide can become something you do very much want to keep hidden.
I'm not paranoid. I'm not afraid that a regime change is looming or that a compulsory DNA database would automatically doom us all. But I would and do say a big no to compulsion because once we do this it won't be undone, and who knows what the world will be like in years to come.
i think you hit the nail on the head. if this was facebook, I would click on like
Good post and agreed. Some people just think that their close ones and themselves are immune to violent crimes, but if it did happen then I'm sure they'd want the police to pull out all the stops to find the culprit, including DNA matching.
It just seems a bit like this-
'Dear sir/ madam, we have something that would convict multiple serious sexual/ violent offenders and potentially prevent future instances of this type of horrific crime happening. The chances of someone new committing a crime like this will be greatly reduced, knowing they will instantly be caught and sent down .
'Nah not interested mate, I've got my privacy to think of'
Government already holds far too much data on us and they are hopeless at guarding that. Of course, the authoritarians would be foaming at the mouth at the prospect of such a database.
I imagine criminals wouldn't be to happy either. nobody has explained how this Data would be abused. nobody has explained how the Data could be abused if strict rules are put in place.
Why would the Government want to use this information for any other purpose other than tracing a criminal.
All this crap about sheep. how brave it is to put your fears of hypothetical abuse ahead of the capture of pedophilia killers and serial killers.rapists etc.
It will make life easier for insurance companies. They will be able to screen out high risk customers and refuse them insurance increasing profits and bonuses for those at the top.
Do you really think that the people pushing for a DNA database are thinking about crime or trying to save a few children from paedos? This is all about money. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and all in the name of fighting crime.
Compulsary database?
Should make short work of id'ing the heroic gobshites sending blood and shit to ukip.😃
Unless they happened to pick the shit out of a public toilet, in which case some innocent person goes to prison and the person who committed the crime gets away with it because the DNA database never lies.
Unless they happened to pick the shit out of a public toilet, in which case some innocent person goes to prison and the person who committed the crime gets away with it because the DNA database never lies.
I doubt they'd be allowed to charge someone on that alone. Stop scaremongering.
Comments
The moment your parents register your birth your in the system and no getting out of it. There is a lot of your personal data held and used by all sorts so I really don't understand the reluctance some members have toward a DNA database or ID cards. You have no real privacy now.
We have DPA legislation protecting that data - with the exception of the DNA database where the protection doesn't apply
No not for all, for most. That's the point of discrimination. When that data is being mined to determine and underclass of people more likely to suffer from genetic illnesses so that those that are most likely to need it can be excluded from private medical cover and life assurance, or conversely the healthy can be refused an annuity. (Of course once Private Medical cover is unavailable, these genetic scroungers become an unfair burden on the NHS.)
when the data associated with those arrested is handed over to private companies to run analysis against those “having typical Muslim names”, or "names considered to be Asian or African" - where exactly do you think that is heading?
with the endless abuses of data by the government and private companies we've seen in recent years the one certainty is: the data will leak once it becomes valuable enough.
are you really comfortable with Anonymous having your entire genetic fingerprint at their fingertips? Think of the lolz to be had. And if you're okay with that what about Astrazeneca Pfizer? What about Aviva? What about al Qaeda?
Where is Jessica Hyde?
i think it would encourage lazy police investigations and potentially lead to many wrongful convictions.
Wouldn't be long before people would be getting stitched up for crimes they didn't commit.
paranoia
ˌparəˈnɔɪə/
noun
noun: paranoia
a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically worked into an organized system. It may be an aspect of chronic personality disorder, of drug abuse, or of a serious condition such as schizophrenia in which the person loses touch with reality.
synonyms: persecution complex, delusions, obsession, megalomania, monomania; More
psychosis
unjustified suspicion and mistrust of other people.
Lots of gullibility too
Proposed sell off of Tax records?
Abuse of data and functions by Local Authorities?
And of course all future Governments will be benign.
Probably not. Many of the concerns have been explained quite clearly.
I'm coming at it from a slightly different perspective because I grew up in a place where the government wasn't benign (yes, I know that could be taken in all kinds of directions
Of course that's not Britain in 2014, and I very much hope it never will be. But history shows that things change. One minute you're a wealthy business owner and the next you're on a cattle train heading for a labour camp. An extreme example of course but all I have to do is look back at, say, three generations of my immediate family, and I can see how quickly enormous changes can happen, how power bases shift, and how nothing to hide can become something you do very much want to keep hidden.
I'm not paranoid. I'm not afraid that a regime change is looming or that a compulsory DNA database would automatically doom us all. But I would and do say a big no to compulsion because once we do this it won't be undone, and who knows what the world will be like in years to come.
Government already holds far too much data on us and they are hopeless at guarding that. Of course, the authoritarians would be foaming at the mouth at the prospect of such a database.
So I would be in favour, but I just can't trust the authorities not to misuse the data so I'm voting no.
Secondly I'm actually pretty amazed there are people who are not just dismissing the number of rape/ murders etc that might be solved (and rapists/ murderers taken off the streets and convicted), but are hypothesizing that a load of mistakes/ wrongful convictions would occur, or that some evil megalomaniac in the government will use it for unsavoury means.
Again, not sure how people come to these conclusions. If anything the number of mistakes/wrongful convictions made would be lowered, and if we get a government who wish to completely toss ethics out the window and act all evil. then a bit of DNA being on a database should be pretty far down the list of concerns I'd say.
People give up their blood type, pictures of their physical identity, they are captured on CCTV multiple times a day, they compile a census, they let governments record their consumption habits and and a whole host of other things that don't have the potential benefits of a DNA database.
Why are some ok to have their picture and DOB etc on a passport / driving licence but not have a record of their DNA on file? It makes no sense to me.
I agree with the poster who said there seems to be an awful lot of paranoia on here.
For me the potential pros don't just outweigh the cons, they annihilate them.
You are right there is a lot of personal data held, far too much, but it is still possible to have privacy. I can still go out for walks without anyone knowing where I am., turn my phone off and i left in peace. the places I go for walks don't have any cameras.
even if i go into town, I could put a hood on so the cameras would not know who I am, not that I would, but I could. but even so the cameras don't know who I am or the people watching them, unless they personally know me.
There is no need for anyone to have my DNA and there is no need for me to have a I.d card, I have done without one for 40 years, so what would I need one now?
If we had a I.D card, it could come to the stage where we have to present it just to buy goods, like in some other countries. Thankfully, the Tories did do one good thing and that is getting rid of the I.d card system and I even if Labour gets in again, I can not see them starting it up again, it will cost too much and having everyone's DNA on a database will not happen for many years if at all.
I know the tories are trying to get people on more databases with the NHS database, but thankfully, we can opt out of that.
Tell me how will it make my life easier?
i think you hit the nail on the head. if this was facebook, I would click on like
It just seems a bit like this-
'Dear sir/ madam, we have something that would convict multiple serious sexual/ violent offenders and potentially prevent future instances of this type of horrific crime happening. The chances of someone new committing a crime like this will be greatly reduced, knowing they will instantly be caught and sent down .
'Nah not interested mate, I've got my privacy to think of'
Just makes little to no sense to me. ;-)
I imagine criminals wouldn't be to happy either. nobody has explained how this Data would be abused. nobody has explained how the Data could be abused if strict rules are put in place.
Why would the Government want to use this information for any other purpose other than tracing a criminal.
All this crap about sheep. how brave it is to put your fears of hypothetical abuse ahead of the capture of pedophilia killers and serial killers.rapists etc.
Should make short work of id'ing the heroic gobshites sending blood and shit to ukip.😃
It will make life easier for insurance companies. They will be able to screen out high risk customers and refuse them insurance increasing profits and bonuses for those at the top.
Do you really think that the people pushing for a DNA database are thinking about crime or trying to save a few children from paedos? This is all about money. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and all in the name of fighting crime.
Unless they happened to pick the shit out of a public toilet, in which case some innocent person goes to prison and the person who committed the crime gets away with it because the DNA database never lies.
I doubt they'd be allowed to charge someone on that alone. Stop scaremongering.
Tell that to David Butler.