Doc Martin (Part 13 — Spoilers)

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 366
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    One has to wonder how actually short-sighted Minghella was to even have his point of view that the love interest would be on the side. Obviously, audiences LOVE "love interests" especially the kind of up/down, yes/no, on/off one they established in the show based on two wonderfully flawed characters, who the audience is seriously rooting for, with the quirky characters and unusual medical conditions being the "side interests". For Minghella to originally have thought the opposite would work best--focus on quirky characters and love is second--illustrates that him leaving may have been a godsend for us all.

    Well to give Minghella a little bit of an excuse, although I think he was dead wrong :) Still as a writer myself, characters take on a life of their own as you develop them. I had a picked out the character to be the killer in a mystery I was writing -- and as the story proceeded and the character developed some fun, quirky traits (through no fault of my own, so to speak) -- but it was clear that this particular character couldn't be the murderer. Book was rewritten.

    So as the seasons progressed, as the actors inhabited so successfully their characters, those previously minor characters and stories moved to the forefront.

    I'm assuming Minghella understood that because certainly by episode 8 of the first season, in Haemophobia, the love connection is clear. Similarly, the character of Elaine, which might have been seen as clever and quirky when first envisioned, turned out to be grating and obnoxious when on screen and by episode 1 of the second season had conveniently moved away :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 399
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    NewPark wrote: »
    And, it does seem to me that if Martin Clunes hadn't insisted that the character of Martin Ellingham become a lot grumpier and less social, they wouldn't have been able to stretch out the love interest for six seasons. Because the character of DM in series 1, especially, is a comparative luvvie -- I don't think LG could have held out for long!

    Just having watched S1 E2 again, why does LG look so, well, bedraggled at the wedding, when everyone else looks so smart?

    I know what you mean NewPark. Her hair is messy (but that might be a 'style'). She also is wearing a raincoat of some sort instead of a pretty dress. Louisa can look stunning in the yellow cardigan and blue print skirt or in the black and white date dress as in Series 3. :) She was really annoyed with DM that day because she had thought (wrongly) that he never visited Roger in the hospital. I wonder if her appearance was suppose to send a message to the audience that she was angry at DM? I'm just thinking out loud.:confused:
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    Portwenn59 wrote: »
    I know what you mean NewPark. Her hair is messy (but that might be a 'style'). She also is wearing a raincoat of some sort instead of a pretty dress. Louisa can look stunning in the yellow cardigan and blue print skirt or in the black and white date dress as in Series 3. :) She was really annoyed with DM that day because she had thought (wrongly) that he never visited Roger in the hospital. I wonder if her appearance was suppose to send a message to the audience that she was angry at DM? I'm just thinking out loud.:confused:

    to me, the interesting thing about this show is that everything is sending some kind of message, if only we could decode it. I think you are on the right track.

    Her appearance is striking -- the hair is straggling, the raincoat is rumpled and doesn't go with the dress -- maybe all in aid of portraying here as going off half-cocked? (an old expression that means, you haven't done your homework, got your facts straight, done the right preperation).
  • marchrandmarchrand Posts: 879
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    Portwenn59 wrote: »
    I know what you mean NewPark. Her hair is messy (but that might be a 'style'). She also is wearing a raincoat of some sort instead of a pretty dress. Louisa can look stunning in the yellow cardigan and blue print skirt or in the black and white date dress as in Series 3. :) She was really annoyed with DM that day because she had thought (wrongly) that he never visited Roger in the hospital. I wonder if her appearance was suppose to send a message to the audience that she was angry at DM? I'm just thinking out loud.:confused:

    . . . .or possibly that the Board of Governors didn't take her observation seriously at the hiring process that she felt DM didn't have a bedside manner, almost as important to her as his medical qualifications. Then, horror of horrors he sacked Elaine. It wasn't until S1E4 when Louisa goes to the Portwenn Players Dance with Mark Mylow after being turned down by DM, that she realizes how she hurt the doc's feelings when she was dancing with Mark, he arriving late and they had eye contact. It was at that point forward she started to spend more time on her appearance.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 366
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    marchrand wrote: »
    . . . .or possibly that the Board of Governors didn't take her observation seriously at the hiring process that she felt DM didn't have a bedside manner, almost as important to her as his medical qualifications. Then, horror of horrors he sacked Elaine. It wasn't until S1E4 when Louisa goes to the Portwenn Players Dance with Mark Mylow after being turned down by DM, that she realizes how she hurt the doc's feelings when she was dancing with Mark, he arriving late and they had eye contact. It was at that point forward she started to spend more time on her appearance.

    Maybe by then the powers that be had also seen the chemistry, seen the audience's reaction to the DM/LG coupling, and decided to make some small changes??
  • Shop GirlShop Girl Posts: 1,284
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    gh21 wrote: »
    Some news about 'Hometown' and again no mention of Doc Martin :confused:

    http://i45.tinypic.com/oa3zoz.jpg

    Wow - thanks for that! Looks like a role that he will be able to really get his teeth into.
  • BloodphobiaBloodphobia Posts: 448
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    bookfan2 wrote: »
    Well to give Minghella a little bit of an excuse, although I think he was dead wrong :) Still as a writer myself, characters take on a life of their own as you develop them. I had a picked out the character to be the killer in a mystery I was writing -- and as the story proceeded and the character developed some fun, quirky traits (through no fault of my own, so to speak) -- but it was clear that this particular character couldn't be the murderer. Book was rewritten.

    So as the seasons progressed, as the actors inhabited so successfully their characters, those previously minor characters and stories moved to the forefront.

    I'm assuming Minghella understood that because certainly by episode 8 of the first season, in Haemophobia, the love connection is clear. Similarly, the character of Elaine, which might have been seen as clever and quirky when first envisioned, turned out to be grating and obnoxious when on screen and by episode 1 of the second season had conveniently moved away :)

    I agree that MInghella would have seen how the characters evolved and write accordingly. However, if the main theme of the show was not a romance between Martin and Louisa, why did the show begin with them on the plane and then proceed with him mooning over in Port Wenn in the first episode and seemingly even staying in Port Wenn because of her. Remember that glance toward the school before he decided to stay?

    One thought that occurred to me is that Martin Clunes may have seen Martin Ellingham as a transitional character for him as he aged. As the bad boy Gary Strange in "Men Behaving Badly" and as the somewhat henpecked and cuckolded William in "William and Mary," Martin Ellingham was a completely different role for him. He also changed his looks dramatically with the short hair cut, suits and stern demeanor. He may have seen it as his entree into serious roles which allowed him to display his excellent acting skills. Each season he was able to develop the character and shine the spotlight on his acting abilities. At around age 51 when season 6 is filmed, Martin and Louisa should have a mature relationship and not one characterized by bickering and misunderstandings.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 366
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    I
    One thought that occurred to me is that Martin Clunes may have seen Martin Ellingham as a transitional character for him as he aged. As the bad boy Gary Strange in "Men Behaving Badly" and as the somewhat henpecked and cuckolded William in "William and Mary," Martin Ellingham was a completely different role for him. He also changed his looks dramatically with the short hair cut, suits and stern demeanor. He may have seen it as his entree into serious roles which allowed him to display his excellent acting skills. Each season he was able to develop the character and shine the spotlight on his acting abilities. At around age 51 when season 6 is filmed, Martin and Louisa should have a mature relationship and not one characterized by bickering and misunderstandings.

    I agree completely. A smart actor thinks about these issues as he chooses roles. Otherwise you get pigeonholed into "the buffoon," "the dumb blonde," etc.

    Over the five seasons, MC has been given a range of emotions to play. I don't think that is as true for CC.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    I really think dominic minghellas comments have been misread. All he said was he wouldn't get LG and DM together as it would be the death of the show. Not thst they wouldnt be the focus of the show. Their non/relationship has been the focus of the show from s1 e1.

    And as yet they haven't benn really "together" successfully so it is just as Dominic intended.

    The main change from dominic to MC taking over control was the eat getting up of the grumpiness factor.

    Dominic, great writer that I think he is, isn't infallible as evidenced by the early demise if robin hood which he went onto after DM.
  • mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    Portwenn59 wrote: »
    I know what you mean NewPark. Her hair is messy (but that might be a 'style'). She also is wearing a raincoat of some sort instead of a pretty dress. Louisa can look stunning in the yellow cardigan and blue print skirt or in the black and white date dress as in Series 3. :) She was really annoyed with DM that day because she had thought (wrongly) that he never visited Roger in the hospital. I wonder if her appearance was suppose to send a message to the audience that she was angry at DM? I'm just thinking out loud.:confused:

    What's interesting is that by episode 2 of the entire series, LG is already mistaking DM's actions and seeing the worst in him right off the bat (he didn't visit Roger). As we know, this comes up again and again in the series. I find it interesting it showed up so early.

    One wonders if psychologically, on the basis of her dad, Louisa's main male figure in life growing up, she has a habit which developed in those years of thinking the worst (at least of male men figures in her life) when a situation comes up. No doubt because as we understand with her dad it WAS usually the worst. Now, DM DOES the worst at times, true, but he also does good things, of which LG can initially think the worst.

    We mentioned her wondering why DM said yes to go to PC Penhale's birthday party at Carrie Wilson's hotel so quickly, why he asked her what she was drinking at the party, her stating she'll fix the godfather situation with Isobel, etc.

    It seems she is carrying over some deep dad stuff onto DM at times, perhaps. Not sure, but it makes sense.
  • lemsterlemster Posts: 196
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    bookfan2 wrote: »
    Well to give Minghella a little bit of an excuse, although I think he was dead wrong :) Still as a writer myself, characters take on a life of their own as you develop them. I had a picked out the character to be the killer in a mystery I was writing -- and as the story proceeded and the character developed some fun, quirky traits (through no fault of my own, so to speak) -- but it was clear that this particular character couldn't be the murderer. Book was rewritten.

    So as the seasons progressed, as the actors inhabited so successfully their characters, those previously minor characters and stories moved to the forefront.

    I'm assuming Minghella understood that because certainly by episode 8 of the first season, in Haemophobia, the love connection is clear. Similarly, the character of Elaine, which might have been seen as clever and quirky when first envisioned, turned out to be grating and obnoxious when on screen and by episode 1 of the second season had conveniently moved away :)

    Your premise implies that the a series is written as it is being filmed. My understanding is that a series is written completely prior to going to location. This doesn't preclude minor adjustments to the story line, but I'd think anything major would cause scheduling problems. I guess a major unknown when starting out a program is the chemistry that the actors develop. Certainly in this case Clunes and Catz seem to bring some real tension to their interaction.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 46
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    bookfan2 wrote: »
    Well to give Minghella a little bit of an excuse, although I think he was dead wrong :) Still as a writer myself, characters take on a life of their own as you develop them. I had a picked out the character to be the killer in a mystery I was writing -- and as the story proceeded and the character developed some fun, quirky traits (through no fault of my own, so to speak) -- but it was clear that this particular character couldn't be the murderer. Book was rewritten.

    So as the seasons progressed, as the actors inhabited so successfully their characters, those previously minor characters and stories moved to the forefront.

    I'm assuming Minghella understood that because certainly by
    episode 8 of the first season, in Haemophobia, the love
    connection is clear. Similarly, the character of Elaine, which might have been seen as clever and quirky when first envisioned, turned out to be grating and obnoxious when on screen and by episode 1 of the second season had conveniently moved away :)

    Also I think the writers were very clever at not over playing the DM/LG relationship. They gave us just enough to keep us interested and questioning and not too much information as to become boring or sappy ( not that DM could be sappy)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,018
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    What's interesting is that by episode 2 of the entire series, LG is already mistaking DM's actions and seeing the worst in him right off the bat (he didn't visit Roger). As we know, this comes up again and again in the series. I find it interesting it showed up so early.

    One wonders if psychologically, on the basis of her dad, Louisa's main male figure in life growing up, she has a habit which developed in those years of thinking the worst (at least of male men figures in her life) when a situation comes up. No doubt because as we understand with her dad it WAS usually the worst. Now, DM DOES the worst at times, true, but he also does good things, of which LG can initially think the worst.

    We mentioned her wondering why DM said yes to go to PC Penhale's birthday party at Carrie Wilson's hotel so quickly, why he asked her what she was drinking at the party, her stating she'll fix the godfather situation with Isobel, etc.

    It seems she is carrying over some deep dad stuff onto DM at times, perhaps. Not sure, but it makes sense.

    Yep, I think you're very right. We're shown so much of this in "On the Edge", which I recently rewatched. When Terry first shows up on LG's birthday, we're almost instantly shown an example of what he was like when LG was a child. He tells her he's sorry to arrive empty-handed on her birthday. He says he saw a dress in a window that would have been perfect for her and inquired about it, but was told it wasn't available for purchase by the public; it was wholesale only. This shows us that Terry most likely always had an excuse as LG grew up. Later in the episode, LG recalls sitting in a bookie's office with a packet of sweets on her 10th birthday. Disappointment after disappointment. I think she grew up subconsciously assuming men would always disappoint her. It's her first reaction, her first thought, on so many occasions. In the wine scene at the Wilson Hotel that you mentioned LG seems almost surprised when it turns out she's wrong about DM's intentions this time, that he's not about to lecture her, he just wants to know if he can get her another glass of wine. It's not LG's fault. It's the way she was raised. Add to that the fact that her mother abandoned the family and we can see that she's loaded down with "baggage". Put LG and DM's baggage together and they've got enough luggage to sail around the world.

    By the way, in rewatching that episode, I noticed there are actually two instances in which a sibling is mentioned. In the first, when LG tells DM her dad was big on buying "us" ice cream, I think someone said the use of "us" could be a semantics thing, a British English thing. But in the second reference, there's no question. In her kitchen, LG says to Terry, "I know it must have been hard bringing us up after Mum left." So there's definitely a sibling. I wonder what became of this sibling and if we'll meet him or her in S6. I assume this is another damaged human being.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,018
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    Early in S3 when Penhale first visits the surgery, he reels off DM's degrees from the sign outside: MB, BS, FRCS. Does anyone know what these stand for? Obviously MB and BS don't correspond to MB and BS degrees in the US, and I have no clue what FRCS might be. Help, someone?
  • marchrandmarchrand Posts: 879
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    Biffpup wrote: »
    Early in S3 when Penhale first visits the surgery, he reels off DM's degrees from the sign outside: MB, BS, FRCS. Does anyone know what these stand for? Obviously MB and BS don't correspond to MB and BS degrees in the US, and I have no clue what FRCS might be. Help, someone?

    MB - equivalent to MD in the U.S.

    BS - (Bachelor of Surgery) awarded for passing surgical portion of the exam

    FRCS - Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons of England
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,018
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    marchrand wrote: »
    MB - equivalent to MD in the U.S.

    BS - (Bachelor of Surgery) awarded for passing surgical portion of the exam

    FRCS - Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons of England

    Thanks, Marchrand.
  • dcdmfandcdmfan Posts: 1,540
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    Biffpup wrote: »
    Yep, I think you're very right. We're shown so much of this in "On the Edge", which I recently rewatched. When Terry first shows up on LG's birthday, we're almost instantly shown an example of what he was like when LG was a child. He tells her he's sorry to arrive empty-handed on her birthday. He says he saw a dress in a window that would have been perfect for her and inquired about it, but was told it wasn't available for purchase by the public; it was wholesale only. This shows us that Terry most likely always had an excuse as LG grew up. Later in the episode, LG recalls sitting in a bookie's office with a packet of sweets on her 10th birthday. Disappointment after disappointment. I think she grew up subconsciously assuming men would always disappoint her. It's her first reaction, her first thought, on so many occasions. In the wine scene at the Wilson Hotel that you mentioned LG seems almost surprised when it turns out she's wrong about DM's intentions this time, that he's not about to lecture her, he just wants to know if he can get her another glass of wine. It's not LG's fault. It's the way she was raised. Add to that the fact that her mother abandoned the family and we can see that she's loaded down with "baggage". Put LG and DM's baggage together and they've got enough luggage to sail around the world.

    By the way, in rewatching that episode, I noticed there are actually two instances in which a sibling is mentioned. In the first, when LG tells DM her dad was big on buying "us" ice cream, I think someone said the use of "us" could be a semantics thing, a British English thing. But in the second reference, there's no question. In her kitchen, LG says to Terry, "I know it must have been hard bringing us up after Mum left." So there's definitely a sibling. I wonder what became of this sibling and if we'll meet him or her in S6. I assume this is another damaged human being.

    When Louisa believes her mother's empty apology with the fake tears at the pub it makes me so sad. You know her mother doesn't mean it and is never going to be able to follow through with her commitment to help her. And Louisa is telling herself that her mother is there to help her. Louisa never gives up hope on her parents, but because of their behavior she can't trust that anyone is going to come through for her. One reviewer calls her "fiercely independent". She has learned to be that way because and she doesn't want to rely on others because she's been let down so often. Martin will be there for the baby, but I wonder if she thinks he will be there for her. He doesn't express himself well, and despite his actions she needs a lot of reassurance. That's why she needed him to say he loved her again at the castle.

    She reacts so strongly to Danny's sudden change of plans to move to London because once again someone close to her went back on their word and didn't take her into consideration. He was making decisions for her by assuming she would move to London with him. I guess that's why it was the last straw when Martin set the date for the Christening. He assumed it would be okay with her - he even consulted her diary without asking. Maybe that wasn't an issue for her but it made me wonder if that didn't invade her privacy a bit.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    well, here, apropos of nothing, is a piquant little blog that reminds us that Doc Martin is popular EVERYWHERE. i think the blogger is located in Nepal.

    http://everestandthetoenail.com/2012/06/11/a-mosquito-net-doc-martin-and-the-present/
  • Shop GirlShop Girl Posts: 1,284
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    We mentioned her wondering why DM said yes to go to PC Penhale's birthday party at Carrie Wilson's hotel so quickly, why he asked her what she was drinking at the party, her stating she'll fix the godfather situation with Isobel,

    I have always found that scene really amusing. LG primps before entering his office and then shows a little jealousy when he accepts her invitation. I'm still not sure why he accepted, but I loved that little scene.
  • Shop GirlShop Girl Posts: 1,284
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    Biffpup wrote: »
    By the way, in rewatching that episode, I noticed there are actually two instances in which a sibling is mentioned. In the first, when LG tells DM her dad was big on buying "us" ice cream, I think someone said the use of "us" could be a semantics thing, a British English thing. But in the second reference, there's no question. In her kitchen, LG says to Terry, "I know it must have been hard bringing us up after Mum left." So there's definitely a sibling. I wonder what became of this sibling and if we'll meet him or her in S6. I assume this is another damaged human being.

    I also rewatched that episode recently and took the 2nd "us" (in the kitchen) the same way that we are taking the ice cream "us". If she meant the ice cream "us" to mean herself, couldn't she have also meant the "bringing us up" "us" the same way? After rewatching this recently, I'm not so sure she has a sibling?
  • marchrandmarchrand Posts: 879
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    Shop Girl wrote: »
    Wow - thanks for that! Looks like a role that he will be able to really get his teeth into.

    Hometown - Do you think ITV is planting a seed to launch MC into a new series? This short description of the type of role it will be sounds like something he could make into a multi-layered man. MC has been a big money maker for ITV, and I would think they are looking forward to his continued assocation with them.
  • mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    Shop Girl wrote: »
    I have always found that scene really amusing. LG primps before entering his office and then shows a little jealousy when he accepts her invitation. I'm still not sure why he accepted, but I loved that little scene.

    Hello, Shop Girl, I thought his yes was obvious. He'd follow LG to the ends of the earth, if she asked him to go with him. Remember how still he stood outside the pub when she told him to Stay Right There in Erotomania? He had no intention of going to the party until LG wanted to go with him. That is different from early on, when he might skip a get together outside the Pub, for example, nodding at her from his front patio or even skipping the town dance/procreation event in Season 1. By season three, if she asked he would go.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    marchrand wrote: »
    Hometown - Do you think ITV is planting a seed to launch MC into a new series? This short description of the type of role it will be sounds like something he could make into a multi-layered man. MC has been a big money maker for ITV, and I would think they are looking forward to his continued assocation with them.

    I do hope so. It sounds from the description like a "one-off" but perhaps if it does well, they could commission another one or two? or more?

    I will certainly do my part to boost viewing figures.

    And, based on the description, this should be just up his alley. No one does sad and lonely better!
  • Shop GirlShop Girl Posts: 1,284
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    Hello, Shop Girl, I thought his yes was obvious. He'd follow LG to the ends of the earth, if she asked him to go with him. Remember how still he stood outside the pub when she told him to Stay Right There in Erotomania? He had no intention of going to the party until LG wanted to go with him. That is different from early on, when he might skip a get together outside the Pub, for example, nodding at her from his front patio or even skipping the town dance/procreation event in Season 1. By season three, if she asked he would go.

    You're probably right, but I also think he was flattered by the attention that he was receiving from Carrie Wilson - he DID blush. I don't think he consiously wanted to be flattered, but how many women over the age of 15 have thrown themselves at him like that?

    Perhaps he had a thought (very deep down) that LG might be a little jealous that he was willing to attend THAT party. And of course, she was.
  • Shop GirlShop Girl Posts: 1,284
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    NewPark wrote: »
    I do hope so. It sounds from the description like a "one-off" but perhaps if it does well, they could commission another one or two? or more?

    I will certainly do my part to boost viewing figures.

    And, based on the description, this should be just up his alley. No one does sad and lonely better!

    I can't wait to see both of these this fall. I hope when we get nearer to the broadcast that I can get some tips from the other Americans here how to see them. I have a Brit friend in California who subscribes to a service to allow her to watch some of this stuff online, but I don't need it often enough to be practical.
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