If something like that occurred, perhaps Friday evenings would suit the broadcasters. Prime time spot, plus plenty of scope to sell sponsorship, and advertising should it be a commercial channel that buys the rights. I'd maybe add in the stipulation that no one team could feature more than once a season, to give more teams exposure.
Instead of damaging BT and Sky's subscriptions, such a deal might enhance them, as a small number of live FTA games could work as free advertising. Indeed strategically placed adverts at half time from the pay tv companies could go along the lines of 'if you like what your seeing for free, our games are even better'. For the FTA broadcaster, they get a very attractive looking package on 'live' weekends. A live game on a Friday night, then highlights shows on Saturday and Sunday nights. For the Premier League, they'd get more competition for the FTA rights. ITV would surely enter the picture to challenge the BBC domination of FTA Premier League, and perhaps even Channel Four might sit up and take notice.
ITV currently have four of their top 30 rated weekly shows on a Friday night, and the "problem" with live football is there are two 45 minute chunks when they can't run adverts. If they're only getting 3- 4 million on a Tuesday when it's always one of the bigger English teams, usually playing a reasonably well-known European opponent, I'm not sure how attractive a Premiership match on a night when a lot of football fans are out on the beer is going to be.
I could see Sky or BT asking for a Friday night slot to enhance their coverage, but much as your idea sounds great as a sports fan, not sure how likely it would be to come about.
ITV currently have four of their top 30 rated weekly shows on a Friday night, and the "problem" with live football is there are two 45 minute chunks when they can't run adverts. If they're only getting 3- 4 million on a Tuesday when it's always one of the bigger English teams, usually playing a reasonably well-known European opponent, I'm not sure how attractive a Premiership match on a night when a lot of football fans are out on the beer is going to be.
I could see Sky or BT asking for a Friday night slot to enhance their coverage, but much as your idea sounds great as a sports fan, not sure how likely it would be to come about.
I can see where your coming from. But it's not unthinkable to move things around the schedule. For instance with Tuesday nights being freed up by the loss of Champions League football, that becomes a night that can accommodate the high rating cornerstones of their output, without fear of being shifted on a regular basis to make way for a football match. Fridays could be a position of football, movies and one off drama's.
All very hypothetical, and unlikely ever to happen all the same.
Just skimmed through the thread. I can't see much thoughts on going after boxing.
Late 80's-Early 90's ITV was the home of boxing. Since then the sport has sunk very low. They could restore it to it's former glories.
If something like that occurred, perhaps Friday evenings would suit the broadcasters. Prime time spot, plus plenty of scope to sell sponsorship, and advertising should it be a commercial channel that buys the rights. I'd maybe add in the stipulation that no one team could feature more than once a season, to give more teams exposure.
Instead of damaging BT and Sky's subscriptions, such a deal might enhance them, as a small number of live FTA games could work as free advertising. Indeed strategically placed adverts at half time from the pay tv companies could go along the lines of 'if you like what your seeing for free, our games are even better'. For the FTA broadcaster, they get a very attractive looking package on 'live' weekends. A live game on a Friday night, then highlights shows on Saturday and Sunday nights. For the Premier League, they'd get more competition for the FTA rights. ITV would surely enter the picture to challenge the BBC domination of FTA Premier League, and perhaps even Channel Four might sit up and take notice.
It sounds very nice but the problem is highlights is not worth much & ITV will have to decide if its really worth it seeing as the BBC pays good money just for highlights.
Im sure Mr Scudamore has already thought of this & if he thinks he will get less than currently then the answer is NO.
Im glad I have BT Sport now because ITV Sport has been poor for years and I just put up with it. Im impressed with BT Sport and their coverage so the CL being on it will be a bonus for me. ITV sport presentation wise has been pretty dire in my opinion.
Just skimmed through the thread. I can't see much thoughts on going after boxing.
Late 80's-Early 90's ITV was the home of boxing. Since then the sport has sunk very low. They could restore it to it's former glories.
The sport itself needs to return to its former glories first. Nowadays the heavyweight division is basically the Klitschko's refusing to first one another and beating whatever little-regarded tomato can gets plunked in front of them, there are maybe 3-4 decent fights across all the other weight classes per year, a ludicrous number of federations and belts, and a paucity of genuinely world class British fighters, e.g. Amir Khan, who although exciting loses nearly every time he fights someone even half decent.
It sounds very nice but the problem is highlights is not worth much & ITV will have to decide if its really worth it seeing as the BBC pays good money just for highlights.
Im sure Mr Scudamore has already thought of this & if he thinks he will get less than currently then the answer is NO.
Yet in an era of diminishing live football on ITV, combined with a potentially sweeter FTA deal, the Premier League might be able to turn the BBC's one horse race for highlights into a keener contested battle for those rights.
ITV are at a pivotal point. If they do a deal for Champions League highlights, then I can see them seriously bidding for Premier League highlights too. I don't see live Champions League games ever returning to ITV beyond 2015. If they don't change their perspective on Premier League highlights, this will leave them in the position of aiming to defend the rights to England games, and perhaps trying to reclaim the FA Cup from the BBC again.
If ITV maintain a position of 'we aim to hold what we have' then they may lose the lot one day. I felt the FA Cup rights the BBC recently won was a deal they couldn't afford to lose, as long as they were in a position to bid seriously. I see the Premier League highlights from 2016/17 in a similar way for ITV.
The sport itself needs to return to its former glories first. Nowadays the heavyweight division is basically the Klitschko's refusing to first one another and beating whatever little-regarded tomato can gets plunked in front of them, there are maybe 3-4 decent fights across all the other weight classes per year, a ludicrous number of federations and belts, and a paucity of genuinely world class British fighters, e.g. Amir Khan, who although exciting loses nearly every time he fights someone even half decent.
Alternatively, we're on the brink of an era where up to a dozen British boxers are about to try to prove themselves as world class with another 2 or 3 undoubtedly at that level already.
Just skimmed through the thread. I can't see much thoughts on going after boxing.
Late 80's-Early 90's ITV was the home of boxing. Since then the sport has sunk very low. They could restore it to it's former glories.
With live football mostly out of the way in 18 months time, ITV could look to spending big bucks on a few big fights on Saturday nights. I used to like their coverage and really enjoyed the Ewbank/ Benn grudge matches in the early nineties. However, I think Sky seem to have all the big fights sewn up and might up the bar to keep these fights.
Just skimmed through the thread. I can't see much thoughts on going after boxing.
Late 80's-Early 90's ITV was the home of boxing. Since then the sport has sunk very low. They could restore it to it's former glories.
The problem with boxing is that ITV, or indeed any terrestrial broadcaster, could build up a fighter, but as soon as they establish themselves, they disappear off to one of the pay-per-view outlets (Sky Box Office, Box Nation or Primetime). ITV's contract with Frank Warren in the mid-2000s was a pain as well. They couldn't really organise fights against British boxers promoted by his rivals, because they had contracts with other broadcasters, and Warren himself stopped ITV from signing up other promoters for some baffling reason.
The other problem ITV has is that Peter Fincham, while a good channel controller and commissioner in general, is known to be VERY anti-boxing.
The problem with boxing is that ITV, or indeed any terrestrial broadcaster, could build up a fighter, but as soon as they establish themselves, they disappear off to one of the pay-per-view outlets (Sky Box Office, Box Nation or Primetime). ITV's contract with Frank Warren in the mid-2000s was a pain as well. They couldn't really organise fights against British boxers promoted by his rivals, because they had contracts with other broadcasters, and Warren himself stopped ITV from signing up other promoters for some baffling reason.
The other problem ITV has is that Peter Fincham, while a good channel controller and commissioner in general, is known to be VERY anti-boxing.
I noticed he seemed to be abandon the sport as controller on BBC One. It's rather like Richard Desmond is not known for his love of football, hence the end of live football on Channel 5If ITV are unwilling to do boxing, and the politics make it too difficult, it begs the question, should they either keep to their smaller sports on 4 and keep the main channel for entertainment and drama, or should they see if the RFU is interested in a new deal in 3 years time?
If the Premier League were interested in FTA matches they'd create a small but attractive package like you suggest.
Maybe one match per month, Sunday lunchtimes, featuring the biggest teams but not the biggest matches (i.e the biggest teams playing other teams rather than each other). That would probably be all any terrestrial channel would want and it wouldn't ruin the main most attractive packages that Sky and BT fight over.
But that's exactly what the PL actually did do for the 2013/16 rights - it had two packages each with only 12 games:
Package F - 12 games @ Sat 5.30pm
Package G - 10 games @ midweek evenings / Bank Hols + 2 @ Sat 12.45pm
OK, the games weren't on Fri evenings or Sun lunchtime as suggested.
But they were at a good time for FTA TV - in particular the Package F games all @ Sat 5.30pm were in the identical slot ITV uses for its 1st pick FA Cup games (and BBC will likely use when it gets FA Cup).
Every package features at least one big team in the vast majority of games - the quotas ensure that.
Both the above packages had a maximum team quota of 2 - so if no head to head shown and showing all the "big 6" teams twice then all the 12 games would feature a "big 6" team.
With Package G you would even get some head to heads (as contains 1st picks) so approx 2 games out of 12 wouldn't feature a big 6 team but then you have had the benefit of the two massive head to heads.
The problem with boxing is that ITV, or indeed any terrestrial broadcaster, could build up a fighter, but as soon as they establish themselves, they disappear off to one of the pay-per-view outlets (Sky Box Office, Box Nation or Primetime). ITV's contract with Frank Warren in the mid-2000s was a pain as well. They couldn't really organise fights against British boxers promoted by his rivals, because they had contracts with other broadcasters, and Warren himself stopped ITV from signing up other promoters for some baffling reason.
The other problem ITV has is that Peter Fincham, while a good channel controller and commissioner in general, is known to be VERY anti-boxing.
Yes its quite a fall that Boxing has had in the public eye. Just remembering how big Mcguigan/Bruno/Benn/Eubank were when the full glare of terrestrial tv promoting them and the sport. These days its like it goes on behind closed doors. Boxers aren't anywhere near the national stars they were.
But that's exactly what the PL actually did do for the 2013/16 rights - it had two packages each with only 12 games:
Package F - 12 games @ Sat 5.30pm
Package G - 10 games @ midweek evenings / Bank Hols + 2 @ Sat 12.45pm
OK, the games weren't on Fri evenings or Sun lunchtime as suggested.
But they were at a good time for FTA TV - in particular the Package F games all @ Sat 5.30pm were in the identical slot ITV uses for its 1st pick FA Cup games (and BBC will likely use when it gets FA Cup).
Every package features at least one big team in the vast majority of games - the quotas ensure that.
Both the above packages had a maximum team quota of 2 - so if no head to head shown and showing all the "big 6" teams twice then all the 12 games would feature a "big 6" team.
With Package G you would even get some head to heads (as contains 1st picks) so approx 2 games out of 12 wouldn't feature a big 6 team but then you have had the benefit of the two massive head to heads.
Ultimately it comes down to cash.
Yes the mind boggling money BT are able to throw around, not forgetting SKY surely puts ITV out of the picture? Unless the PL specifically wants FTA exposure.
what! no Olympics, IRB World Cup, World Athletics, London Marathon, Cycling, F1 British Grand Prix? No Ladies events? No European Champiosn League Finals etc?
I see in France despite Champions League live being subscription only, that the Final went to a FTA broadcaster. Wonder if UEFA put conditions on BT for a FTA Final?
IF BT do won the Rugby Union European Cup scrap, should the Final of that be FTA?
I think 70% of all major sports finals should be FTA.
I see there live boxing on Channel 5 tomorrow night from 10pm-12am. I used to also like watching boxing until 90% of it went pay per view.
I noticed he seemed to be abandon the sport as controller on BBC One. It's rather like Richard Desmond is not known for his love of football, hence the end of live football on Channel 5If ITV are unwilling to do boxing, and the politics make it too difficult, it begs the question, should they either keep to their smaller sports on 4 and keep the main channel for entertainment and drama, or should they see if the RFU is interested in a new deal in 3 years time?
If it was up to me, I'd bid for the Six Nations next time and do everything possible to hold on to the Rugby World Cup. The Autumn Internationals would be good but might not be worth the money.
Yes, Fincham really doesn't like boxing. He blocked a BBC deal to show 10 Amir Khan fights on Saturday nights.
Boxing, in the long term, seems to be swinging back in Sky Sports's favour. Box Nation isn't doing so well now and Sky seem to be picking up most of the American big fights. A while back, Sky dropped all British boxing apart from that promoted by Matchroom. That means that rival promoters either have to go to Box Nation or Channel 5. It's possible BT may enter the ring at some point.
The Champions League highlights, just confirmed, will soften the blow for ITV.
If it was up to me, I'd bid for the Six Nations next time and do everything possible to hold on to the Rugby World Cup. The Autumn Internationals would be good but might not be worth the money.
Yes, Fincham really doesn't like boxing. He blocked a BBC deal to show 10 Amir Khan fights on Saturday nights.
Boxing, in the long term, seems to be swinging back in Sky Sports's favour. Box Nation isn't doing so well now and Sky seem to be picking up most of the American big fights. A while back, Sky dropped all British boxing apart from that promoted by Matchroom. That means that rival promoters either have to go to Box Nation or Channel 5. It's possible BT may enter the ring at some point.
The Champions League highlights, just confirmed, will soften the blow for ITV.
So ITV have Champions League highlights then. That will help fill the dead time after News At Ten.
However, I still think The Six Nations would be an excellent coup for ITV if they decided to chase them. This is a sport which, in England at least, is mostly watched by ABC1 males, a group of viewers ITV struggles to attract. I'm sure six million ABC1 males watching the Calcutta Cup would be worth far more than two million heavy ITV viewers watching You've Been Framed.
Maybe just as ITV has pulled out of boxing and athletics over the last 20 years, losing most football won't be such a big loss if they get another sport. Remember who'd have thought 20 years ago they would have become the home of Formula 1 for 13 years?
However, I still think The Six Nations would be an excellent coup for ITV if they decided to chase them. This is a sport which, in England at least, is mostly watched by ABC1 males, a group of viewers ITV struggles to attract. I'm sure six million ABC1 males watching the Calcutta Cup would be worth far more than two million heavy ITV viewers watching You've Been Framed.
An episode of You've Been Framed costs less than £50,000 to make and can be repeated endlessly.
The rights for the 6 Nations are sold at around £3m and they have little repeat audience value.
You'd make £3m back on games like England v Scotland, England v Wales and England v France, but you wouldn't on Ireland v France or Italy v anybody.
An episode of You've Been Framed costs less than £50,000 to make and can be repeated endlessly.
The rights for the 6 Nations are sold at around £3m and they have little repeat audience value.
You'd make £3m back on games like England v Scotland, England v Wales and England v France, but you wouldn't on Ireland v France or Italy v anybody.
It was more a thought on how ITV could get a major sports contract. Yet rugby union would probably be reluctant to leave the BBC and Sky, but ITV does have form with this sport and I'm sure it would fill the gap left by the FA Cup on weekends.
The other code of rugby is too much of a provincial sport and I doubt ITV would be interested in a sport that gets less than 2 million viewers.
The problem is that there isn't any major annual contract available which could provide a substantial amount of content suitable for ITV(1) from 2015 or even 2016 or 2017.
The problem is that there isn't any major annual contract available which could provide a substantial amount of content suitable for ITV(1) from 2015 or even 2016 or 2017.
After May 2015 the only major contracts ITV will have are England football, the RU World Cup,and Le Tour, which is mostly shown on ITV 4. I think ITV should maybe look beyond football, but the question is, what can they buy as also some sports are reluctant to go to ITV as they're not a dedicated sports broadcaster and a lot of fans don't like ITV coverage.
The last time they screwed up royally they lost ITV Digital which was a huge mistake for them but good for others as it brought about Freeview
Don't forget, after they lost top flight football to Sky and BBC, they were left with lower league football, some boxing, domestic athletics and two snooker tournaments, hardly a great collection of sports. By 1994 they were billing a fight between two unknowns in Stevenage as a major boxing event.
Yet by the late nineties they'd ditched these lame contracts and were the home of Formula 1, the Champions League, the FA Cup and some of the Five Nations.
Comments
ITV currently have four of their top 30 rated weekly shows on a Friday night, and the "problem" with live football is there are two 45 minute chunks when they can't run adverts. If they're only getting 3- 4 million on a Tuesday when it's always one of the bigger English teams, usually playing a reasonably well-known European opponent, I'm not sure how attractive a Premiership match on a night when a lot of football fans are out on the beer is going to be.
I could see Sky or BT asking for a Friday night slot to enhance their coverage, but much as your idea sounds great as a sports fan, not sure how likely it would be to come about.
I can see where your coming from. But it's not unthinkable to move things around the schedule. For instance with Tuesday nights being freed up by the loss of Champions League football, that becomes a night that can accommodate the high rating cornerstones of their output, without fear of being shifted on a regular basis to make way for a football match. Fridays could be a position of football, movies and one off drama's.
All very hypothetical, and unlikely ever to happen all the same.
Late 80's-Early 90's ITV was the home of boxing. Since then the sport has sunk very low. They could restore it to it's former glories.
It sounds very nice but the problem is highlights is not worth much & ITV will have to decide if its really worth it seeing as the BBC pays good money just for highlights.
Im sure Mr Scudamore has already thought of this & if he thinks he will get less than currently then the answer is NO.
The sport itself needs to return to its former glories first. Nowadays the heavyweight division is basically the Klitschko's refusing to first one another and beating whatever little-regarded tomato can gets plunked in front of them, there are maybe 3-4 decent fights across all the other weight classes per year, a ludicrous number of federations and belts, and a paucity of genuinely world class British fighters, e.g. Amir Khan, who although exciting loses nearly every time he fights someone even half decent.
Yet in an era of diminishing live football on ITV, combined with a potentially sweeter FTA deal, the Premier League might be able to turn the BBC's one horse race for highlights into a keener contested battle for those rights.
ITV are at a pivotal point. If they do a deal for Champions League highlights, then I can see them seriously bidding for Premier League highlights too. I don't see live Champions League games ever returning to ITV beyond 2015. If they don't change their perspective on Premier League highlights, this will leave them in the position of aiming to defend the rights to England games, and perhaps trying to reclaim the FA Cup from the BBC again.
If ITV maintain a position of 'we aim to hold what we have' then they may lose the lot one day. I felt the FA Cup rights the BBC recently won was a deal they couldn't afford to lose, as long as they were in a position to bid seriously. I see the Premier League highlights from 2016/17 in a similar way for ITV.
Fury
Joshua
Haye
Froch
Groves
Barker
Macklin
Brook
Burns
Quigg
Saunders
Callum Smith
Campbell...
There's a few there who might be prepared to defect to ITV from current contracts if the £££ was right.
With live football mostly out of the way in 18 months time, ITV could look to spending big bucks on a few big fights on Saturday nights. I used to like their coverage and really enjoyed the Ewbank/ Benn grudge matches in the early nineties. However, I think Sky seem to have all the big fights sewn up and might up the bar to keep these fights.
The problem with boxing is that ITV, or indeed any terrestrial broadcaster, could build up a fighter, but as soon as they establish themselves, they disappear off to one of the pay-per-view outlets (Sky Box Office, Box Nation or Primetime). ITV's contract with Frank Warren in the mid-2000s was a pain as well. They couldn't really organise fights against British boxers promoted by his rivals, because they had contracts with other broadcasters, and Warren himself stopped ITV from signing up other promoters for some baffling reason.
The other problem ITV has is that Peter Fincham, while a good channel controller and commissioner in general, is known to be VERY anti-boxing.
I noticed he seemed to be abandon the sport as controller on BBC One. It's rather like Richard Desmond is not known for his love of football, hence the end of live football on Channel 5If ITV are unwilling to do boxing, and the politics make it too difficult, it begs the question, should they either keep to their smaller sports on 4 and keep the main channel for entertainment and drama, or should they see if the RFU is interested in a new deal in 3 years time?
But that's exactly what the PL actually did do for the 2013/16 rights - it had two packages each with only 12 games:
Package F - 12 games @ Sat 5.30pm
Package G - 10 games @ midweek evenings / Bank Hols + 2 @ Sat 12.45pm
OK, the games weren't on Fri evenings or Sun lunchtime as suggested.
But they were at a good time for FTA TV - in particular the Package F games all @ Sat 5.30pm were in the identical slot ITV uses for its 1st pick FA Cup games (and BBC will likely use when it gets FA Cup).
Every package features at least one big team in the vast majority of games - the quotas ensure that.
Both the above packages had a maximum team quota of 2 - so if no head to head shown and showing all the "big 6" teams twice then all the 12 games would feature a "big 6" team.
With Package G you would even get some head to heads (as contains 1st picks) so approx 2 games out of 12 wouldn't feature a big 6 team but then you have had the benefit of the two massive head to heads.
Ultimately it comes down to cash.
Yes its quite a fall that Boxing has had in the public eye. Just remembering how big Mcguigan/Bruno/Benn/Eubank were when the full glare of terrestrial tv promoting them and the sport. These days its like it goes on behind closed doors. Boxers aren't anywhere near the national stars they were.
Yes the mind boggling money BT are able to throw around, not forgetting SKY surely puts ITV out of the picture? Unless the PL specifically wants FTA exposure.
I think 70% of all major sports finals should be FTA.
I see there live boxing on Channel 5 tomorrow night from 10pm-12am. I used to also like watching boxing until 90% of it went pay per view.
Darren
If it was up to me, I'd bid for the Six Nations next time and do everything possible to hold on to the Rugby World Cup. The Autumn Internationals would be good but might not be worth the money.
Yes, Fincham really doesn't like boxing. He blocked a BBC deal to show 10 Amir Khan fights on Saturday nights.
Boxing, in the long term, seems to be swinging back in Sky Sports's favour. Box Nation isn't doing so well now and Sky seem to be picking up most of the American big fights. A while back, Sky dropped all British boxing apart from that promoted by Matchroom. That means that rival promoters either have to go to Box Nation or Channel 5. It's possible BT may enter the ring at some point.
The Champions League highlights, just confirmed, will soften the blow for ITV.
So ITV have Champions League highlights then. That will help fill the dead time after News At Ten.
However, I still think The Six Nations would be an excellent coup for ITV if they decided to chase them. This is a sport which, in England at least, is mostly watched by ABC1 males, a group of viewers ITV struggles to attract. I'm sure six million ABC1 males watching the Calcutta Cup would be worth far more than two million heavy ITV viewers watching You've Been Framed.
Maybe just as ITV has pulled out of boxing and athletics over the last 20 years, losing most football won't be such a big loss if they get another sport. Remember who'd have thought 20 years ago they would have become the home of Formula 1 for 13 years?
An episode of You've Been Framed costs less than £50,000 to make and can be repeated endlessly.
The rights for the 6 Nations are sold at around £3m and they have little repeat audience value.
You'd make £3m back on games like England v Scotland, England v Wales and England v France, but you wouldn't on Ireland v France or Italy v anybody.
It was more a thought on how ITV could get a major sports contract. Yet rugby union would probably be reluctant to leave the BBC and Sky, but ITV does have form with this sport and I'm sure it would fill the gap left by the FA Cup on weekends.
The other code of rugby is too much of a provincial sport and I doubt ITV would be interested in a sport that gets less than 2 million viewers.
ITV loses Champions League in May 2015.
Six Nations is available in February 2018.
The problem is that there isn't any major annual contract available which could provide a substantial amount of content suitable for ITV(1) from 2015 or even 2016 or 2017.
After May 2015 the only major contracts ITV will have are England football, the RU World Cup,and Le Tour, which is mostly shown on ITV 4. I think ITV should maybe look beyond football, but the question is, what can they buy as also some sports are reluctant to go to ITV as they're not a dedicated sports broadcaster and a lot of fans don't like ITV coverage.
The last time they screwed up royally they lost ITV Digital which was a huge mistake for them but good for others as it brought about Freeview
Don't forget, after they lost top flight football to Sky and BBC, they were left with lower league football, some boxing, domestic athletics and two snooker tournaments, hardly a great collection of sports. By 1994 they were billing a fight between two unknowns in Stevenage as a major boxing event.
Yet by the late nineties they'd ditched these lame contracts and were the home of Formula 1, the Champions League, the FA Cup and some of the Five Nations.