- England away qualifers have not been live FTA for most of the last decade. I can't be bothered to double check precise dates but from memory they were on Sky for 2 years, then Setanta for 2 years and then back on Sky for another 2 years before only switching to ITV this season (and that's only because Sky is sub-licensing them).
Really?
That's interesting - why haven't Sky kept hold of them to show themselves?
Would ITV want to keep the rights under any circumstances? Say they didn't get England qualifiers, and then BT/Sky came in with a bid which gave them exclusive live coverage of most of the FA Cup (leaving ITV with say one live game per round - not first pick either), would ITV walk away from that?
Depends what the UEFA tv contracts are for international's. My guess is that ITV will get two live matches per international weekend with 1st pick & a lower pick meaning a home nation mainly ( england ) & a european game.
Thats 6 live matches a season now compare that to the FA cup which is about 20.
Except if they are live on BT Sports Channel and Sky Sports fans moan if their are no FTA highlights,
You say that as though it was a good thing that Setanta didn't agree a free to air highlights deal. Regardless of if someone has Sky Sports or not it was terrible.
One of the main reasons why ITV and Setanta won the contract from Sky and the BBC was, it was believed at the time, the FA's disappointment at the latter parties' treatment of the FA Cup pre-2008. The next deal will surely be dependent upon the resolution, or otherwise, of that conflict.
I heard that it was also due to the fact that the BBC pundits etc were critical of the England team that the FA wasn't happy about that. I find that difficult to believe (England were playing awful at the time, and its the pundits job to reflect that.)
It would be nice if the FA recognised the power of games being shown FTA with national coverage and high viewing figures. The Olympics showed that when lots of people are watching, it turns into an event.
Remember that the FA Cup Final is on the Crown Jewels list, so a FTA broadcaster will be a necessity in some capacity in the FA Cup.
I fully expect the FA Cup to be split between a FTA and Pay TV broadcaster with the FTA broadcaster having the first pick in each round. Which combination is anyone's guess but I feel that there remain question marks surrounding whether the BBC can afford to regain the FA Cup. And I suspect the England games will be the priority for ITV ahead of the FA Cup.
In the ideal world, an even share of the rights between the BBC and ITV would be fantastic, with the first pick alternating in each round and over each season (ie. BBC get first pick of SF one year and ITV the next) but of course this scenario will never be realised.
As for the international rights, what is the structure of the picks, or do we not know yet? Initially I was under the impression that broadcasters would be bidding for games for one nation rather than across all nations. Many unanswered questions as yet.
My guess is that the England games will be priority for ITV. There of course will be a limit of how much ITV will pay but I can see ITV paying £30-£40m a year
On the FA Cup I can only see ITV as the FTA bidder. With this in mind i can see ITV bidding £15m a year for 1 game per round 1st pick in prime time if police allow and 1 replay a round.
The next question is who would get the rest? Will the FA opt for BT and see them as a safe pair of hands or go back to SKY??
ESPN out of the picture!
I heard that it was also due to the fact that the BBC pundits etc were critical of the England team that the FA wasn't happy about that. I find that difficult to believe (England were playing awful at the time, and its the pundits job to reflect that.)
The FA have repeatedly said that was not the case. Interestingly that rumour was started by people at the BBC.
You say that as though it was a good thing that Setanta didn't agree a free to air highlights deal. Regardless of if someone has Sky Sports or not it was terrible.
But I think some time before that Sky had a live England Game and their were no FTA highlights (or a very late deal), and less moaning.
I don't think that's the case, but will wait for someone like mlt to provide the data to back me up.
None of the away matches in the qualifying for Euro 2012 that were live on Sky had free to air highlights, including the match in Montengro where Rooney was sent off. Nor did Sky offer highlights for any of the away qualifiers for the 2006 World Cup.
It's all very well to say the FA shouldn't have sold the rights to Setanta as they went bust because in the last eighties they sold the rights to BSB before they'd even come on air and they could have collapsed. And the fact ITV accidentally showed an ad break during a match - four years ago now - means nothing, I remember in 2003 BBC1 lost the picture for five minutes during Man City vs Liverpool. There was no goal scored then but there could have been. And last season Sky showed an entire advert during one of the play-offs - and not during extra time either, during normal time. Didn't even apologise.
None of the away matches in the qualifying for Euro 2012 that were live on Sky had free to air highlights, including the match in Montengro where Rooney was sent off. Nor did Sky offer highlights for any of the away qualifiers for the 2006 World Cup.
It's all very well to say the FA shouldn't have sold the rights to Setanta as they went bust because in the last eighties they sold the rights to BSB before they'd even come on air and they could have collapsed. And the fact ITV accidentally showed an ad break during a match - four years ago now - means nothing, I remember in 2003 BBC1 lost the picture for five minutes during Man City vs Liverpool. There was no goal scored then but there could have been. And last season Sky showed an entire advert during one of the play-offs - and not during extra time either, during normal time. Didn't even apologise.
Last season. I recall Sky had a play off game the same day as the Women's FA Cup final which went to extra time, The man on the radio describing penalties made mention that Sky had left the game to go to the play off match.
AFAIK their is nor deal for the Women's FA Cup Final, but suspect Sky are not top of the preferred list.
Would like to see a serious FTA competitor to ITV make a bid for the FA Cup. If the BBC are in no financial state to do it then maybe Channel Four could make a first move into domestic English football coverage. Bit like when they took the cricket from the BBC.
As for the England games, I can see them being lost to pay tv. I can't see ITV holding on to both the FA Cup contract and the World Cup/ Euro qualifiers through the UEFA centralised deal, especially as they'll have Champions League football to bid for again not long afterwards. Maybe in an ideal world ITV would bid for the first pick internationals and the BBC took the FA Cup back. However I can see BT going for the England games and a chunk of the FA Cup. It's just wether or not Sky will want to go toe to toe with them, or stick to defending what they've already got.
Would like to see a serious FTA competitor to ITV make a bid for the FA Cup. If the BBC are in no financial state to do it then maybe Channel Four could make a first move into domestic English football coverage. Bit like when they took the cricket from the BBC.
As for the England games, I can see them being lost to pay tv. I can't see ITV holding on to both the FA Cup contract and the World Cup/ Euro qualifiers through the UEFA centralised deal, especially as they'll have Champions League football to bid for again not long afterwards. Maybe in an ideal world ITV would bid for the first pick internationals and the BBC took the FA Cup back. However I can see BT going for the England games and a chunk of the FA Cup. It's just wether or not Sky will want to go toe to toe with them, or stick to defending what they've already got.
I think you're right that ITV would prioritise the Champions League and FA Cup over England. It may appear that having the national teams games would be more important in terms of it being a national event and maybe getting more advertising revenue etc, but IMO at least the qualifiers don't actually get the pulse racing.
The European Cup Final and FA Cup Final are IMO still bigger games than any England qualifier (barring a last group game with England needing something to qualify) and so ITV will prioritise keeping both Cup deals in order to be the home of the big football Finals. If you look at what ITV have in the next month or so with Man United v Real Madrid, Arsenal v Bayern etc, then IMO they are more exciting games than England v Ukraine for example.
As long as ITV and BBC are allowed to continue showing all Euro and World Cup Finals games (and they will) then they may well feel that qualifiers and friendlies are expendable if they face a choice between those and the Champions League and FA Cup. Not ideal, but I could see their point.
I do think the FA in hindsight would make the decision for the 2008-2012 FA Cup rights to be on BBC and Sky.
You may be right that the FA would, in hindsight, have chosen the established, proven broadcaster Sky over Setanta.
However why would they have sold to the BBC rather than ITV? After all ITV haven't pulled out of their committments or failed to pay their way. And aside from the infamous incident when viewers missed Everton's winner against Liverpool in 2009, what has been wrong with ITV's coverage? Are the viewers getting a worse deal than we were back in 2008?
One point to bear in mind is that 24 teams will be in the next EC finals so for England qualifying for the EC finals is going to become literally almost 100% guaranteed - ie EC qualifiers will almost take on the characteristics of a friendly as nobody will doubt that England will actually qualify.
However the above will not be the case for the WC which will remain unchanged with (I think) 13 qualifiers from Europe.
However why would they have sold to the BBC rather than ITV? After all ITV haven't pulled out of their committments or failed to pay their way. And aside from the infamous incident when viewers missed Everton's winner against Liverpool in 2009, what has been wrong with ITV's coverage? Are the viewers getting a worse deal than we were back in 2008?
I have to agree with this. Even though I am a huge supporter of the BBC and it's programming I do find their football coverage to be lazy and pretty average.
I have no issue with ITV over the BBC for football. Chiles is a clown, but the likes of Dixon, Keane and Strachan are IMO preferable to the smug ignorance of Hansen, Lawrenson and Shearer. With the exception of the lack of ad breaks would the BBC treat the Cup any better than ITV? I don't think so.
I also cringe at the thought of BBC doing big Champions League games with Lawrenson and Shearer shifting through their programme notes to identify any player who isn't in the Prem or playing for Barca or Real.
You may be right that the FA would, in hindsight, have chosen the established, proven broadcaster Sky over Setanta.
However why would they have sold to the BBC rather than ITV? After all ITV haven't pulled out of their committments or failed to pay their way. And aside from the infamous incident when viewers missed Everton's winner against Liverpool in 2009, what has been wrong with ITV's coverage? Are the viewers getting a worse deal than we were back in 2008?
Didn't they miss USA's goal against us in the 2010 World Cup too?
Anyway, their coverage is very poor in my opinion. Poor host, uninteresting pundits apart from Strachan and Keane who at least speak their mind regardless of whether people will like them being so honest, not uncommon for them to have basically no post match reaction other than maybe a minute or 2 chatting between themselves, not particularly great commentators in my opinion. I'd dump them in a second.
You may be right that the FA would, in hindsight, have chosen the established, proven broadcaster Sky over Setanta.
However why would they have sold to the BBC rather than ITV? After all ITV haven't pulled out of their committments or failed to pay their way. And aside from the infamous incident when viewers missed Everton's winner against Liverpool in 2009, what has been wrong with ITV's coverage? Are the viewers getting a worse deal than we were back in 2008?
There's nothing wrong with ITV's coverage astetically, but you could argue It's a worse deal than in 2008 just down to the fact that the BBC deal saw three live games broadcast in each round between the 3rd and the 6th as opposed to the two games ITV show?.
Comments
That's interesting - why haven't Sky kept hold of them to show themselves?
Presumably Sky wanted to save some money and ITV was willing to pay more than Sky thought the rights were worth to them.
See this thread:
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1753391
Depends what the UEFA tv contracts are for international's. My guess is that ITV will get two live matches per international weekend with 1st pick & a lower pick meaning a home nation mainly ( england ) & a european game.
Thats 6 live matches a season now compare that to the FA cup which is about 20.
You say that as though it was a good thing that Setanta didn't agree a free to air highlights deal. Regardless of if someone has Sky Sports or not it was terrible.
If the FA are chasing ratings, why on earth would they choose BT over Sky?
I fully expect the FA Cup to be split between a FTA and Pay TV broadcaster with the FTA broadcaster having the first pick in each round. Which combination is anyone's guess but I feel that there remain question marks surrounding whether the BBC can afford to regain the FA Cup. And I suspect the England games will be the priority for ITV ahead of the FA Cup.
In the ideal world, an even share of the rights between the BBC and ITV would be fantastic, with the first pick alternating in each round and over each season (ie. BBC get first pick of SF one year and ITV the next) but of course this scenario will never be realised.
As for the international rights, what is the structure of the picks, or do we not know yet? Initially I was under the impression that broadcasters would be bidding for games for one nation rather than across all nations. Many unanswered questions as yet.
On the FA Cup I can only see ITV as the FTA bidder. With this in mind i can see ITV bidding £15m a year for 1 game per round 1st pick in prime time if police allow and 1 replay a round.
The next question is who would get the rest? Will the FA opt for BT and see them as a safe pair of hands or go back to SKY??
ESPN out of the picture!
The FA have repeatedly said that was not the case. Interestingly that rumour was started by people at the BBC.
But I think some time before that Sky had a live England Game and their were no FTA highlights (or a very late deal), and less moaning.
But more people had Sky. Your not comparing like with like.
Besides that I'm not too sure that at least a free to air highlights deal wasn't done, because Sky usually have agreed a free to air highlights deal.
I don't think that's the case, but will wait for someone like mlt to provide the data to back me up.
None of the away matches in the qualifying for Euro 2012 that were live on Sky had free to air highlights, including the match in Montengro where Rooney was sent off. Nor did Sky offer highlights for any of the away qualifiers for the 2006 World Cup.
It's all very well to say the FA shouldn't have sold the rights to Setanta as they went bust because in the last eighties they sold the rights to BSB before they'd even come on air and they could have collapsed. And the fact ITV accidentally showed an ad break during a match - four years ago now - means nothing, I remember in 2003 BBC1 lost the picture for five minutes during Man City vs Liverpool. There was no goal scored then but there could have been. And last season Sky showed an entire advert during one of the play-offs - and not during extra time either, during normal time. Didn't even apologise.
Last season. I recall Sky had a play off game the same day as the Women's FA Cup final which went to extra time, The man on the radio describing penalties made mention that Sky had left the game to go to the play off match.
AFAIK their is nor deal for the Women's FA Cup Final, but suspect Sky are not top of the preferred list.
As for the England games, I can see them being lost to pay tv. I can't see ITV holding on to both the FA Cup contract and the World Cup/ Euro qualifiers through the UEFA centralised deal, especially as they'll have Champions League football to bid for again not long afterwards. Maybe in an ideal world ITV would bid for the first pick internationals and the BBC took the FA Cup back. However I can see BT going for the England games and a chunk of the FA Cup. It's just wether or not Sky will want to go toe to toe with them, or stick to defending what they've already got.
I think you're right that ITV would prioritise the Champions League and FA Cup over England. It may appear that having the national teams games would be more important in terms of it being a national event and maybe getting more advertising revenue etc, but IMO at least the qualifiers don't actually get the pulse racing.
The European Cup Final and FA Cup Final are IMO still bigger games than any England qualifier (barring a last group game with England needing something to qualify) and so ITV will prioritise keeping both Cup deals in order to be the home of the big football Finals. If you look at what ITV have in the next month or so with Man United v Real Madrid, Arsenal v Bayern etc, then IMO they are more exciting games than England v Ukraine for example.
As long as ITV and BBC are allowed to continue showing all Euro and World Cup Finals games (and they will) then they may well feel that qualifiers and friendlies are expendable if they face a choice between those and the Champions League and FA Cup. Not ideal, but I could see their point.
You may be right that the FA would, in hindsight, have chosen the established, proven broadcaster Sky over Setanta.
However why would they have sold to the BBC rather than ITV? After all ITV haven't pulled out of their committments or failed to pay their way. And aside from the infamous incident when viewers missed Everton's winner against Liverpool in 2009, what has been wrong with ITV's coverage? Are the viewers getting a worse deal than we were back in 2008?
However the above will not be the case for the WC which will remain unchanged with (I think) 13 qualifiers from Europe.
I have to agree with this. Even though I am a huge supporter of the BBC and it's programming I do find their football coverage to be lazy and pretty average.
I have no issue with ITV over the BBC for football. Chiles is a clown, but the likes of Dixon, Keane and Strachan are IMO preferable to the smug ignorance of Hansen, Lawrenson and Shearer. With the exception of the lack of ad breaks would the BBC treat the Cup any better than ITV? I don't think so.
I also cringe at the thought of BBC doing big Champions League games with Lawrenson and Shearer shifting through their programme notes to identify any player who isn't in the Prem or playing for Barca or Real.
Didn't they miss USA's goal against us in the 2010 World Cup too?
Anyway, their coverage is very poor in my opinion. Poor host, uninteresting pundits apart from Strachan and Keane who at least speak their mind regardless of whether people will like them being so honest, not uncommon for them to have basically no post match reaction other than maybe a minute or 2 chatting between themselves, not particularly great commentators in my opinion. I'd dump them in a second.
The BBC are far from perfect themselves though.
There's nothing wrong with ITV's coverage astetically, but you could argue It's a worse deal than in 2008 just down to the fact that the BBC deal saw three live games broadcast in each round between the 3rd and the 6th as opposed to the two games ITV show?.