Just had a lecture from my vet

[Deleted User] · 10/12/10 - 16:47

My vet's just lectured me that my cat may not be getting enough taurine in his diet since I changed his diet to all natural and raw. I only went in for worming tablets!

Isn't taurine in meat and fish? That's what I feed him

She was also talking about a vitamin problem that's really dangerous and has asked me to make an appointment to go in and have a proper chat to her about his diet. She's recommending that I feed him commercial food on the basis of the big argument between natural and manufactured.

All I know is that my cat appears 100 times healthier on the natural diet to what he was on the manufactured. She's telling me that he might be for a while but in the long term he's going to have more problems?! I felt I'd researched really well but she's making me question myself.

Iggy's Boy · 10/12/10 - 17:20

You're going to get people queuing up to tell you your vet is wrong and you're going to get people telling you to listen to your vet as they know best.

In the end, it's your cat and you can feed it nothing but smarties if you like.

Follow your heart or just compromise and give it a bit of everything, it'll be fine.

susie-4964 · 10/12/10 - 17:44

A "manufactured" cat food does contain a balanced diet in terms of vitamins and nutrients. A cat that feeds itself in the wild will also probably get the right vitamins and nutrients by having a varied diet of birds, small rodents, grass etc. A cat fed on "cleaned up" meat and fish, i.e. no skin, bones, guts etc., could actually end up being vitamin deficient. There's absolutely nothing wrong with manufactured cat foods for most cats. If a cat owner feels that their cat isn't doing well on a particular diet, go and ask the vet - don't do a Gillian McKeith on the poor animal and assume you know best.

OP, go back to the vet and ask them to explain the situation to you, why they think your cat might have, or get, a deficiency, and listen to what they say. A simple vitamin supplement may be all that's needed.

cats_five · 10/12/10 - 18:34

Fish isn't usually a natural part of a cat's diet and feeding too often can be bad for the cat. Feeding raw meat is fine except that if you mean lean raw meat that's not complete either. The natural diet of a domestic cat is small rodents and the odd bird, and they eat the bones, skin and innards as well as the fat and meat. What you feed your cat needs to replicate that.

silentNate · 10/12/10 - 18:37

cats_five wrote: »

Fish isn't usually a natural part of a cat's diet and feeding too often can be bad for the cat. Feeding raw meat is fine except that if you mean lean raw meat that's not complete either. The natural diet of a domestic cat is small rodents and the odd bird, and they eat the bones, skin and innards as well as the fat and meat. What you feed your cat needs to replicate that.

This.

There are loads of taurine supplements you might also want to conside4r for the health of your cat

[Deleted User] · 10/12/10 - 18:40

Your vet may actually know more about feline nutrition than most in the profession.;) Taurine deficiency is indeed a danger in the feeding of home made raw....as soon as meat is chopped or minced the taurine starts to degrade so most raw feeders will supplememnt with powdered taurine when food is served up. Taurine is essential for heart and eye health amongst other things.
Have a look here
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood#The_Ingredients
for an example of a balanced raw recipe....see that Vitamin B and E are also added as well as fish oils. It is also vitally important to feed the right ratio of meat to bone....a rough rule of thumb is 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver 5% other offal
You can buy taurine powder cheaply from www.myprotein.com
Lots of info about raw feeding here...http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/111455-thinking-about-raw-feeding-basic-guide.html

Toggler · 11/12/10 - 12:35

Vets generally know of what they speak, so I would be giuded by yours.

However if you consider you know best then continue on your way, but with the caveat that there is apparently a vitamin problem that will potentially affect his health to his detriment.

There must be some physical sign that flagged this up to the vet - eyes, or gum colour for instance? Or did they do some tests.

xdow · 11/12/10 - 13:06

cats_five wrote: »

Fish isn't usually a natural part of a cat's diet and feeding too often can be bad for the cat. Feeding raw meat is fine except that if you mean lean raw meat that's not complete either. The natural diet of a domestic cat is small rodents and the odd bird, and they eat the bones, skin and innards as well as the fat and meat. What you feed your cat needs to replicate that.

in theory then, would feeding your cat the same diet you would feed a snake, for example, constitute a balanced natural diet?

i know there is a lot of debate about the nutrition values of frozen rodents and birds, but in this instance, say the animals were fresh killed and given to the cat?

BlueMood · 11/12/10 - 17:03

xdow wrote: »

in theory then, would feeding your cat the same diet you would feed a snake, for example, constitute a balanced natural diet?

i know there is a lot of debate about the nutrition values of frozen rodents and birds, but in this instance, say the animals were fresh killed and given to the cat?

It's probably best to let the cat do that itself. Unlike snakes, there is nothing in terms of safety or legality to stop a cat roaming free and thereby doing its own hunting.

Aside from meat, cats also need the nutrition found in greens that they tend to get from grass.

I own three "indoor" cats. They go out into the garden and though they like to stalk, have never caught anything. They more than help themselves to the lawn though.

I do occasionally feed them fresh meat and fish and seafood but they eat mostly complete dry food, except for my male cat who can't eat dry food due to his bladder. This presents another problem, that of his teeth which were perfect until his intolerance of dry food was dagnosed, so I have to give him treats and occasionally, at the suggestion of the vet, raw lamb chops on the bone.

[Deleted User] · 11/12/10 - 17:43

My cat brings his prey in but never eats it but then I take it off him hopefully before he's done any lasting damage.

I started him on applaws chicken food after dry food gave him a UTI and he put a lot of weight on. After about 3 months I realised applaws wasn't a complete meal. Information on some of their tins was a bit misleading. I'd been giving him 3 - 4 70g tins a day. Well his weight dropped and he wasn't craving food like he was on the dry food but I feel bad that I wasn't giving him what I thought was a complete meal.

Then I started giving him the odd tin here and there as a treat but introduced raw meat, heart, liver and some bone (off the lamb). I've only ever given him tuna and prawns that were cooked but he's not really a big fishy fan, he's more of a chicken fan. Anyway, he's been great and his last check with the vet a month or so ago for his yearly booster, she was praising how healthy he was, teeth, eyes, ears, heart! A coat that looked like Tresemme had had him in the salon.

Yesterday I went in for worming tablets and she asked me how he was so I told her he was super and she asked me to remind of her of what diet I was giving him then I got the lecture

I bought some Purely pots (pets at home) own brand of natural today since I figured I should compromise. It's got no E numbers or additives other than vitamins and cranberry with 90% meat. I gave him some earlier and he wolfed it down

Perhaps I should see how he goes on that for a while. I hate to think I could have been making him ill in the long term. It's so difficult to know what's best, there's so much information for natural against big brands on the shelf.

[Deleted User] · 12/12/10 - 10:10

Surely there is a mid ground where you feed some tinned food and some raw meat? You can feed up to 20% of the diet as raw without having to worry too much about meat to bone ratio and supplementation, any more than that and you need to pay a bit more attention. Remember that not every actual single meal needs to be balanced, butoverall it must be.
One way to do this is to buy the meat supplies according to the recipe I posted ( or something similar worked out by a vet nutritionist), chop it all up, add supplements and then freeze portions in small bags.
You will find several good quality wet foods on www.zooplus.com, Bozita, Animonda carny, Grau and Smilla all offer value and high protein
Your vet is much more likely to be supportive if you are able to give a detailed report of foods fed, and the recipe I linked to is devised by Lisa Pierson DVM

stud u like · 12/12/10 - 10:35

I would have told the vet that I pay their wages, so if they are going to comment, they know that I am quite happy to use another surgery and take my friends with me.

Mike_1101 · 12/12/10 - 12:50

The only time I had a lecture from a vet, was to use a particular brand of cat food they sold at sky high prices.

I still use it although it's much cheaper elsewhere.

This was several years ago and the vet concerned has now retired to Spain at a relatively young age.

Not suggesting there is any connection of course......

xdow · 12/12/10 - 14:00

BlueMood wrote: »

It's probably best to let the cat do that itself. Unlike snakes, there is nothing in terms of safety or legality to stop a cat roaming free and thereby doing its own hunting.

Aside from meat, cats also need the nutrition found in greens that they tend to get from grass.

i was thinking more about captive bred rodents and birds to prevent disease and illness being passed on, so... they would have to be given dead because of the laws regarding such things.

never mind though, i was just wondering

i was also under the impression that cats cannot digest vegetable matter - let alone grasses
once again though i think my animal nutrition lectures are fobbing us off with half truths :rolleyes:

Mike_1101 · 12/12/10 - 14:06

xdow wrote: »

i was thinking more about captive bred rodents and birds to prevent disease and illness being passed on, so... they would have to be given dead because of the laws regarding such things.

never mind though, i was just wondering

i was also under the impression that cats cannot digest vegetable matter - let alone grasses
once again though i think my animal nutrition lectures are fobbing us off with half truths :rolleyes:

I have a friend whose cats demands (and eats) a contribution of everything (vegetables included) they have for Sunday lunch.

The cat concerned also enjoys scrambled eggs for breakfast. She wasn't encouraged by her owner she just decided she wanted human food!

[Deleted User] · 12/12/10 - 15:53

charliesugar wrote: »

Surely there is a mid ground where you feed some tinned food and some raw meat? You can feed up to 20% of the diet as raw without having to worry too much about meat to bone ratio and supplementation, any more than that and you need to pay a bit more attention. Remember that not every actual single meal needs to be balanced, butoverall it must be.
One way to do this is to buy the meat supplies according to the recipe I posted ( or something similar worked out by a vet nutritionist), chop it all up, add supplements and then freeze portions in small bags.
You will find several good quality wet foods on www.zooplus.com, Bozita, Animonda carny, Grau and Smilla all offer value and high protein
Your vet is much more likely to be supportive if you are able to give a detailed report of foods fed, and the recipe I linked to is devised by Lisa Pierson DVM

There are four vets in the practice I use and you take pot luck which one's on duty at the time of your visit. That in itself I don't mind but one of the guys tries to get you to buy everything under the sun and you can see it's not the interest of the animals he's bothered with.

The problem I have is fathoming out when they're on their sales pitch as the others are a bit more subtle. I'm definitely still going to be giving my cat some raw foods but whilst I'll give him some tinned the more natural but complete the better.

Sven945 · 12/12/10 - 16:22

stud u like wrote: »

I would have told the vet that I pay their wages, so if they are going to comment, they know that I am quite happy to use another surgery and take my friends with me.

Riight, so when you go and see an expert about something, do you always throw a hissy fit when they give you advice about something they are expert in?

susie-4964 · 12/12/10 - 22:38

I just think it's quite funny to be worrying so much about the diet of an animal that will happily chow down on flattened roadkill (I had to go out at midnight to pick up a dead pigeon because oldest cat insisted on nomming it, quite oblivious to the traffic!). We love our cats, but they are animals - they have evolved beautifully to exist in a wild-type environment. Unless the cat is ill in some way, it will be absolutely fine on most cat foods.

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