A former player said on twitter that the players in the team today knew they wouldn't be playing on Saturday, so didn't see the point in today, which is the wrong attitude, but goes to show how much this game meant to Kenny as well.
Morale is low, the players can't be bothered and the manager has given up.
None of that matters.
When you are paid a salary to do a job, you have to do more than just clock on.
Thats how it is for the rest of us.
Thats certainly how it is for the fans who fork out for season tickets.
Someone needs to remind them about actually EARNING the money they are paid.
The failure is manifold - the squad is still not good enough but we know that I think - Downing is a passenger try to imagine how much he would be transferred for in the summer if he were sold - 10 million at most? Henderson should never have been thrown in the deep end (on the right) in his first season he might yet come good, Carroll is an annoyance - he can be good but is wrong for the team I think but it looks like he is staying so that's that. Adam is a squad player at best ,as is Spearing. With Gerrards age and Shelvey still being quite raw and an attacking player a least one major signing is needed for the middle. A wide man (even two) is needed esp with Maxi and Kuyt both heading out by the looks of it. And a striker
Then there is the manager, he can be as disappointed as he likes but they are his players, his coaching, his motivation, his tactics - so they failure is his as much as theirs that the season has become progressively worse shows Dalglish is not learning anything from failure which for me says he is not good enough.
I doubt FSG will distracted by two cups if LFC win on Saturday, they know the CL is the main business of a top club with global ambitions/needs.
We're in danger of soundihg like Villa fans. Of course we've got average players in the squad because we're no longer a top four team. That's understandable.
In addition, to say our squad depth is poor due to last night is misleading in that probably only Skrtel would be considered a regular starter for next season once we have a fully fit squad - not many teams would cope with changing 8+ first team players.
Aurelio, Maxi and Kuyt played like they are going through the motions last night, which is par for the course as they know they're off in the summer. Henderson continued his nervy. anxious form and Shelvey showed willing but erratic quality as befits a player of his age. Carroll was admirably focused but still lacks the service that only a complete change in our philosophy will give him.
Dembele again proved why I want us to go after him - would be a great acquisition for us as we need another midfield player who drives at defences and is comfortable on the ball.
A mass clearout over and above the players mentioned above is not economically possible if we wish to retain enough quality in depth - we just need around three players of proven quality to replace the departing Aurelio, Maxi and Kuyt, one of which has to be a goal scorer and one a right winger with pace which are our two top priorities. A Dembele type midfielder would be third.
Say what you like abpuit Suarez as a goal scorer but he prefers a deeper role where he can pick the ball up and run at defences - a speedy accomplice who just shoots on sight would be a perfect addition.
I would feel fairly positive about Luuk De Jong , if we could get him for the £12.5m quoted so far. Not seen enough of Rasmus Elm but would he be any more of a gamble for under £10m than Adam or Hendo.
Iker Munian and Gaston Ramirez have been linked with us but I think CL clubs may appeal to them.
Refreshing to hear Kenny at least take some blame for last night. We're 3 point behind the blues in 8th place, 5 wins at home all season. Not good enough!
I would feel fairly positive about Luuk De Jong , if we could get him for the £12.5m quoted so far. Not seen enough of Rasmus Elm but would he be any more of a gamble for under £10m than Adam or Hendo.
Iker Munian and Gaston Ramirez have been linked with us but I think CL clubs may appeal to them.
Unai Emery from Valencia could be an interesting manager shout, as for players I'd want Llorente or Soldado up front, Javi Martinez in the middle and Hoilett or Jarvis on the wing (yes that Matt Jarvis - from Wolves, he'd be a good buy for helping Carroll) I'd even go for Fletcher at the right price - 11 goals I think most of them within the 6 yard area.
I was at the game last night and it was a strange atmosphere, the crowd were quiet, most of the players just seemed to be going through the motions, which for LFC just isn't acceptable.
I feel Kenny was in a no win situation, if he had played some of the players that are definite starters for Saturday and they got injured or sent off, then he would have been castigated. However he chose to put out a team that seriously were never going to win against an average Fulham team.
It proves we haven't got a strong enough squad and there needs to be some big changes in the summer if we are to be challenging for the league title.
However let's hope for a win on Saturday
Unai Emery from Valencia could be an interesting manager shout, as for players I'd want Llorente or Soldado up front, Javi Martinez in the middle and Hoilett or Jarvis on the wing (yes that Matt Jarvis - from Wolves, he'd be a good buy for helping Carroll) I'd even go for Fletcher at the right price - 11 goals I think most of them within the 6 yard area.
i would not be shocked if we signed the likes of Jarvis and Fletcher. I really hope not though!!!
We're in danger of soundihg like Villa fans. Of course we've got average players in the squad because we're no longer a top four team. That's understandable.
But we are still paying top 4 wages. I saw a table about average weekly wages yesterday on Yahoo. If it's accurate we're paying on average nearly £61k a week (per player), Arsenal were afew of hundred quid more, Manchester Utd about £65k/week and Chelsea and Man City way out on £79k and £86k per week.
I think, as we've had indications of already, that's a situation FSG are not going to accept going forward. Big name/well know players who demand high fees and wages might be well off our radar... at least for this summer.
Can someone tell Hendo that you are supposed to play towards the oppos goals. Not from sideline to sideline:rolleyes:
Indeed. If not can someone tell Kenny not to play him at all until he is ready. I hope Kenny replaced him at half time because he was rubbish and not to save him for the final! Not that he was alone, 2 or 3 were decent but the rest unworthy on the night to wear the shirt.
At least you didn't have to fork out £59 (adult/child) to see the absolute dross served up by the whole team. Possibly one of the most dismal games I've attended and that includes under Roys reign :eek: Dreadful, seeing the ground empty before the whistle and hearing the boo's at the final whistle is not supposed to be what it's about.
To walk home and hear Kenny's interview afterwards didn't help. Come on Kenny, I adore you, but we are not stupid, to say you picked them to give them a chance to push themselves into the team for the final is simply not true. Maxi could have scored a hat trick and he wouldn't start come Sat, same with the majority of the others on show.
I seriously felt short changed by the team/manager last night. If you are going to play a 2nd string drop your prices, don't expect us to fork out to watch stuff that I can watch seeing my son kick the ball around the park with his mates.
Nearly 24 hours on where am I - still devastated tbh as fool as i am I honestly had not expected that.
In the last few weeks we have played WBA, Villa, Wigan and Fulham at home and picked up 1 point - that is absolutely unbelievable and tbh even if we win on Saturday a lot of questions will obviously still need to be asked.
However I hate some saying Kenny's fate depends on whether we win and tbh disagree with it - it is possible they have already decided he will have to go or he himself may have decided to step upstairs but I doubt it depends on just one match and result.
It's not the losing that gets me most, it's the manner of losing - we lost before Xmas but most times played well but in some of the defeats since we have been appalling - frankly at about the same level as were under RH. It is different under Kenny as unlike under Roy we are usually positive in the way we play and have seen good performances too and won a cup and are in the final of another, but he knows and we know that it is the league performances which we are most bothered about and there have been too many at 'pants' level.
Summer transfers? - outs? - who knows - there aren't many I'd say 'have' to stay but if a lot do stay no probs as most have some football talent - provided they do not play much!!. What must happen is to see more in and not cast offs from teams below us - I think it was C07 who said that to bring in the likes of Hendo, Adam, Downing and Carroll may have worked for a top team but not for one like us who needed dragging to the top. He is right. I want to see most of our recruits come from overseas tbh and not to be too expensive altho maybe the odd mega buy may be OK - to capture the fans' imagination. I do not accept this opinion that the owners have no funds - when they took over LFC in a poor state they must have known it'd take money to address the probs. So far net they have spent say 30-40m which in today's football world is not too much - I think a bit more could come from them definitely. What we must hold our hands up and say is that the Torres, Meireles Babel (+ others) money has not been used well and we cannot turn the clock back on that. One often neglected point imo is that many of the best players - the ones we do not want to lose - love Kenny - the likes of Suarez, Glen, Agger, Pepe, Skrtel and if we decided to ditch him that may lead to some of them wanting to go too. All in all in the cold light of day I think we just have to stick with Kenny for now and hope for good business over the summer.
And btw if you look at our recent record V CFC it is great - last 4 games = double over them last season and 2 wins at Stamford Bridge this season so I don't think to go into the match expecting to lose is right. If we play like we did last night of course we will lose but the thing is we are unlikely to play like last night on Saturday are we.
The performance was dire, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong team choice
Who would you have gone for instead ? Gerrard, Agger, Johnson and Bellamy needed to be rested considering how injury prone they are and there's no point risking our best player Suarez ahead of a cup final
Kenny gave the squad players an opportunity to fight for a place, which wasn't taken. It just makes his job on Saturday a little easier
Benefit of hindsight I know but looking back the 'front 6' mix was not right as it was maybe incapable of creating goals.
Hendo - perennial backwards 'safe' passer
Spearing - ball winner maybe but little evidence of being a good passer or creator of chances.
Kuyt - trier but very little skill who if he creates a chance it is more good luck than judgement
Maxi - needs intelligent players to play round him and the best ones on our books were not playing
Shelvey - got potential but unfair to expect him to be our 'main man'
Carroll - works hard but clumsy and not really a creator of chances when up front by himself, needs people to create chances for him
Downing - lacks confidence these days and unable to lift us coming on at half time after a bad first half
Sterling - at his age he should not be our main hope!!
So once we went behind it was going to be a struggle with the people we had on the pitch. I tho like you am very unimpressed by the lack of desire shown by people playing last night who are on the fringe of the FAC final team - cos the truth is that some of those 8 will play on Saturday but based on last night none really deserve to.
The performance was dire, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong team choice
Who would you have gone for instead ? Gerrard, Agger, Johnson and Bellamy needed to be rested considering how injury prone they are and there's no point risking our best player Suarez ahead of a cup final
Kenny gave the squad players an opportunity to fight for a place, which wasn't taken. It just makes his job on Saturday a little easier
It was the wrong team choice imo. I didn't know the team until it was read out by Peter Mcdowell at the ground and i groaned at the thought of a midfield 3 of Henderson, Spearing, Shelvey for starters. Alan has summed it up below.
It wasn't the defence I had a probelm with so resting Reina, Johnson, Agger, Enrique was not an issue.
I'd have played Kuyt up with Carroll, as he wasn't it should not have had Hendo, Spearing, with Shelvey slightly ahead.
Let's not kid ourselves Kenny rested the players, that was his sole aim not to play others who may force their way into Saturdays team. I am despearte for us to win the FA Cup so support resting the players to a degree but I don't see the harm in having them in reserve if needed...they were needed, supporters who attend the game should not be short changed like that.
Benefit of hindsight I know but looking back the 'front 6' mix was not right as it was maybe incapable of creating goals.Hendo - perennial backwards 'safe' passer
Spearing - ball winner maybe but little evidence of being a good passer or creator of chances.
Kuyt - trier but very little skill who if he creates a chance it is more good luck than judgement
Maxi - needs intelligent players to play round him and the best ones on our books were not playing
Shelvey - got potential but unfair to expect him to be our 'main man'
Carroll - works hard but clumsy and not really a creator of chances when up front by himself, needs people to create chances for him
Downing - lacks confidence these days and unable to lift us coming on at half time after a bad first half
Sterling - at his age he should not be our main hope!!
So once we went behind it was going to be a struggle with the people we had on the pitch. I tho like you am very unimpressed by the lack of desire shown by people playing last night who are on the fringe of the FAC final team - cos the truth is that some of those 8 will play on Saturday but based on last night none really deserve to.
So, let's move on, we kind of know the basis of the team for the FAC - Gerrard, Agger, Johnson, Bellamy, Reina, Suarez, Enrique, Kelly - and then? Looks like we are may struggle to get a decent 11 starters to me!
That 2nd Papiss Cisse goal was one of the best goals I've ever seen. Outrageous.
Still waiting for the 2nd goal but some feisty elbows flying about between Mikel & Tiote.
Whilst waiting for the goal I see Chelsea have risked playing Torres, Drogba, Mata, Meireles, Mikel, Ivanovic,Terry, Cech, Malouda, Lampard in their game .......and still lost
EDIT: Thanks Laura I ended up turning the highlights on to wait for Cisse goal and saw the majority of the players, thanks anyhow
And brought on Mata, Drogba and lampard so some important players for them played
League position is still vitally important for Chelsea , arguably more important than winning the Cup as getting into next year's CL is Roman's be all and end all.
If they win the CL then all else will be forgiven but if they lose and 'only' get into the EL then heads will roll and not just Di Matteo's
Comments
None of that matters.
When you are paid a salary to do a job, you have to do more than just clock on.
Thats how it is for the rest of us.
Thats certainly how it is for the fans who fork out for season tickets.
Someone needs to remind them about actually EARNING the money they are paid.
Then there is the manager, he can be as disappointed as he likes but they are his players, his coaching, his motivation, his tactics - so they failure is his as much as theirs that the season has become progressively worse shows Dalglish is not learning anything from failure which for me says he is not good enough.
I doubt FSG will distracted by two cups if LFC win on Saturday, they know the CL is the main business of a top club with global ambitions/needs.
In addition, to say our squad depth is poor due to last night is misleading in that probably only Skrtel would be considered a regular starter for next season once we have a fully fit squad - not many teams would cope with changing 8+ first team players.
Aurelio, Maxi and Kuyt played like they are going through the motions last night, which is par for the course as they know they're off in the summer. Henderson continued his nervy. anxious form and Shelvey showed willing but erratic quality as befits a player of his age. Carroll was admirably focused but still lacks the service that only a complete change in our philosophy will give him.
Dembele again proved why I want us to go after him - would be a great acquisition for us as we need another midfield player who drives at defences and is comfortable on the ball.
A mass clearout over and above the players mentioned above is not economically possible if we wish to retain enough quality in depth - we just need around three players of proven quality to replace the departing Aurelio, Maxi and Kuyt, one of which has to be a goal scorer and one a right winger with pace which are our two top priorities. A Dembele type midfielder would be third.
Say what you like abpuit Suarez as a goal scorer but he prefers a deeper role where he can pick the ball up and run at defences - a speedy accomplice who just shoots on sight would be a perfect addition.
I would feel fairly positive about Luuk De Jong , if we could get him for the £12.5m quoted so far. Not seen enough of Rasmus Elm but would he be any more of a gamble for under £10m than Adam or Hendo.
Iker Munian and Gaston Ramirez have been linked with us but I think CL clubs may appeal to them.
Manager: Either Martinez or Rodgers
Midfielder: Victor Moses
I feel Kenny was in a no win situation, if he had played some of the players that are definite starters for Saturday and they got injured or sent off, then he would have been castigated. However he chose to put out a team that seriously were never going to win against an average Fulham team.
It proves we haven't got a strong enough squad and there needs to be some big changes in the summer if we are to be challenging for the league title.
However let's hope for a win on Saturday
i would not be shocked if we signed the likes of Jarvis and Fletcher. I really hope not though!!!
But we are still paying top 4 wages. I saw a table about average weekly wages yesterday on Yahoo. If it's accurate we're paying on average nearly £61k a week (per player), Arsenal were afew of hundred quid more, Manchester Utd about £65k/week and Chelsea and Man City way out on £79k and £86k per week.
I think, as we've had indications of already, that's a situation FSG are not going to accept going forward. Big name/well know players who demand high fees and wages might be well off our radar... at least for this summer.
(Edited to add the link to table for those interested Sports biggest payers )
Oh no she doesn't :eek: The performance was dire
(I exclude Sterling in that though)
Indeed. If not can someone tell Kenny not to play him at all until he is ready. I hope Kenny replaced him at half time because he was rubbish and not to save him for the final! Not that he was alone, 2 or 3 were decent but the rest unworthy on the night to wear the shirt.
At least you didn't have to fork out £59 (adult/child) to see the absolute dross served up by the whole team. Possibly one of the most dismal games I've attended and that includes under Roys reign :eek: Dreadful, seeing the ground empty before the whistle and hearing the boo's at the final whistle is not supposed to be what it's about.
To walk home and hear Kenny's interview afterwards didn't help. Come on Kenny, I adore you, but we are not stupid, to say you picked them to give them a chance to push themselves into the team for the final is simply not true. Maxi could have scored a hat trick and he wouldn't start come Sat, same with the majority of the others on show.
I seriously felt short changed by the team/manager last night. If you are going to play a 2nd string drop your prices, don't expect us to fork out to watch stuff that I can watch seeing my son kick the ball around the park with his mates.
Rant over, sorry, but I needed it!
Good luck for Saturday Reds
In the last few weeks we have played WBA, Villa, Wigan and Fulham at home and picked up 1 point - that is absolutely unbelievable and tbh even if we win on Saturday a lot of questions will obviously still need to be asked.
However I hate some saying Kenny's fate depends on whether we win and tbh disagree with it - it is possible they have already decided he will have to go or he himself may have decided to step upstairs but I doubt it depends on just one match and result.
It's not the losing that gets me most, it's the manner of losing - we lost before Xmas but most times played well but in some of the defeats since we have been appalling - frankly at about the same level as were under RH. It is different under Kenny as unlike under Roy we are usually positive in the way we play and have seen good performances too and won a cup and are in the final of another, but he knows and we know that it is the league performances which we are most bothered about and there have been too many at 'pants' level.
Summer transfers? - outs? - who knows - there aren't many I'd say 'have' to stay but if a lot do stay no probs as most have some football talent - provided they do not play much!!. What must happen is to see more in and not cast offs from teams below us - I think it was C07 who said that to bring in the likes of Hendo, Adam, Downing and Carroll may have worked for a top team but not for one like us who needed dragging to the top. He is right. I want to see most of our recruits come from overseas tbh and not to be too expensive altho maybe the odd mega buy may be OK - to capture the fans' imagination. I do not accept this opinion that the owners have no funds - when they took over LFC in a poor state they must have known it'd take money to address the probs. So far net they have spent say 30-40m which in today's football world is not too much - I think a bit more could come from them definitely. What we must hold our hands up and say is that the Torres, Meireles Babel (+ others) money has not been used well and we cannot turn the clock back on that. One often neglected point imo is that many of the best players - the ones we do not want to lose - love Kenny - the likes of Suarez, Glen, Agger, Pepe, Skrtel and if we decided to ditch him that may lead to some of them wanting to go too. All in all in the cold light of day I think we just have to stick with Kenny for now and hope for good business over the summer.
And btw if you look at our recent record V CFC it is great - last 4 games = double over them last season and 2 wins at Stamford Bridge this season so I don't think to go into the match expecting to lose is right. If we play like we did last night of course we will lose but the thing is we are unlikely to play like last night on Saturday are we.
Who would you have gone for instead ? Gerrard, Agger, Johnson and Bellamy needed to be rested considering how injury prone they are and there's no point risking our best player Suarez ahead of a cup final
Kenny gave the squad players an opportunity to fight for a place, which wasn't taken. It just makes his job on Saturday a little easier
Hendo - perennial backwards 'safe' passer
Spearing - ball winner maybe but little evidence of being a good passer or creator of chances.
Kuyt - trier but very little skill who if he creates a chance it is more good luck than judgement
Maxi - needs intelligent players to play round him and the best ones on our books were not playing
Shelvey - got potential but unfair to expect him to be our 'main man'
Carroll - works hard but clumsy and not really a creator of chances when up front by himself, needs people to create chances for him
Downing - lacks confidence these days and unable to lift us coming on at half time after a bad first half
Sterling - at his age he should not be our main hope!!
So once we went behind it was going to be a struggle with the people we had on the pitch. I tho like you am very unimpressed by the lack of desire shown by people playing last night who are on the fringe of the FAC final team - cos the truth is that some of those 8 will play on Saturday but based on last night none really deserve to.
It wasn't the defence I had a probelm with so resting Reina, Johnson, Agger, Enrique was not an issue.
I'd have played Kuyt up with Carroll, as he wasn't it should not have had Hendo, Spearing, with Shelvey slightly ahead.
Let's not kid ourselves Kenny rested the players, that was his sole aim not to play others who may force their way into Saturdays team. I am despearte for us to win the FA Cup so support resting the players to a degree but I don't see the harm in having them in reserve if needed...they were needed, supporters who attend the game should not be short changed like that.
Exactly.
Do you know if Chelsea rested 8 or 9 players? I know Torres played, so must mean he'll be benched for the final?
Really, hmmm I best turn the highlights on then as they are showing the match now ....goes look.....
Even better than Suarez & Crouchie's? :eek: Must be damn good then.
Not really started out with
Cech, Boswinga, Ivanovic, Terry, Bertrand, meireles, ramires, mikel, Torres, Sturridge, Malouda
And brought on Mata, Drogba and lampard so some important players for them played
Still waiting for the 2nd goal but some feisty elbows flying about between Mikel & Tiote.
Whilst waiting for the goal I see Chelsea have risked playing Torres, Drogba, Mata, Meireles, Mikel, Ivanovic,Terry, Cech, Malouda, Lampard in their game .......and still lost
EDIT: Thanks Laura
League position is still vitally important for Chelsea , arguably more important than winning the Cup as getting into next year's CL is Roman's be all and end all.
If they win the CL then all else will be forgiven but if they lose and 'only' get into the EL then heads will roll and not just Di Matteo's
No problem waiting for the goal myself I like NUFC and it always nice to see Mr Terry's team get beat