Man dies after being forced to attend Atos/DWP assessment when he shouldnt of had to

barrcode88barrcode88 Posts: 6,849
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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/man-who-ill-attend-fit-for-work-3177803

Really have no words to say, look at the treatment he got there in his hour of need.
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Comments

  • kippehkippeh Posts: 6,655
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    Really scraping the bottom of the blame barrel with this one.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,074
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    Is the wording from ATOS

    ESA50 Form
    Tell us about any times or dates in the next 3 months when you cannot go to a face-to-face assessment.

    Tell us about any help you would need if you have to go for a face-to-face assessment.
    Tell us if
    l you cannot get up and down stairs
    l have difficulty travelling or using public transport
    l you need a British Sign Language signer.
    Tell us about any other help you might need.
    What did they write in the ESA50 about any difficulty in attending or not being able to attend a face-to-face assessment?

    When they were sent the letter requesting they attend a face to face assessment, was it worded as follows
    We have been asked by the Department for Work and Pensions (the DWP) to carry out a medical assessment in relation to your claim/appeal to Employment and Support Allowance/National Insurance Credits. We have arranged an appointment for you at:....

    It is important that you attend. If you fail to attend, your benefit may be affected. If you are unable to attend, or if you need any help whilst you are at the examination centre, please inform the appointments help desk on ...... as soon as possible.
    Did they phone up ATOS before trying to attend despite the state of their health?
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    Is the wording from ATOS

    ESA50 Form

    What did they write in the ESA50 about any difficulty in attending or not being able to attend a face-to-face assessment?

    When they were sent the letter requesting they attend a face to face assessment, was it worded as follows

    Did they phone up ATOS before trying to attend despite the state of their health?

    Well most of the time they take no notice of what you have written down, thousands of people are sent to a assessment centres that are not wheel chair friendly, although this is on the form, I have not had this once, but 3 times, you can cancel your appointment once, after that your money is stopped, I have always get them to cancel my first appointment because I demand a recorded assessment, which they have to get the recording equipment in because they have to share equipment between centres, when you phone up to tell them they cannot tell you over the phone when your next appointment will be because they don't know when they can get the equipment so it is passed to a different department. I have even known people have their money stopped for not attending when it has been atos who have canceld the appointment.
  • 1Mickey1Mickey Posts: 10,427
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    I'm far from a fan of ATOS but they do what they're told to do to meet targets and whoever replaces them will do the same.
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    1Mickey wrote: »
    I'm far from a fan of ATOS but they do what they're told to do to meet targets and whoever replaces them will do the same.

    If they can get someone to do it, atos have admitted their brand name has been damaged, I as so wonder if it has effected them getting other private sector contracts, Also the DWP has fined atos and capita for failings in the new contract of PIP and the contracts have not been running a year yet. Most people feel that atos are being used as the scape goats, for the failing of the WCA which was designed by the DWP, not atos
  • 1Mickey1Mickey Posts: 10,427
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    tim59 wrote: »
    If they can get someone to do it, atos have admitted their brand name has been damaged, I as so wonder if it has effected them getting other private sector contracts, Also the DWP has fined atos and capita for failings in the new contract of PIP and the contracts have not been running a year yet. Most people feel that atos are being used as the scape goats, for the failing of the WCA which was designed by the DWP, not atos

    I'm sure there's a company out there who will happily take the money. Both of the parties have too much tied up in the idea that GPs can't be trusted to go back to the old system now.
  • rossi_drrossi_dr Posts: 1,206
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    Feb 24, 2014 23:16
    People on Employment and Support Allowance will not be automatically
    retested until another firm can be brought into help,
    a leaked memo has revealed Ministers have been forced to halt medical
    checks on sick and disabled people because of the shambles engulfing hated firm Atos.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/atos-crisis-fit-to-work-checks-shelved-3180876
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    1Mickey wrote: »
    I'm sure there's a company out there who will happily take the money. Both of the parties have too much tied up in the idea that GPs can't be trusted to go back to the old system now.

    The old system was not done by GPs, it was done by doctors employed by the DWP.
  • JasonJason Posts: 76,557
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    To be fair, he wasn't forced to attend. It clearly states in the article that he attended because he was scared he would have his benefits stopped if he didn't, even though he was in no fit state to go anywhere.
    Did they phone up ATOS before trying to attend despite the state of their health?

    If you're someone in his condition, I would imagine that logical thinking isn't really high on the agenda - the poor man was probably terrified that any perceived mis-step would cost him his benefits.

    But then that won't stop plenty of people on DS trying to downplay it and blame it on "tabloid sensationalism" rather than blame the Government and Ian Duncan Voldermort.
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    rossi_dr wrote: »
    Feb 24, 2014 23:16
    People on Employment and Support Allowance will not be automatically
    retested until another firm can be brought into help,
    a leaked memo has revealed Ministers have been forced to halt medical
    checks on sick and disabled people because of the shambles engulfing hated firm Atos.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/atos-crisis-fit-to-work-checks-shelved-3180876

    Its all ending in a big mess, even today they are still trying to blame the labour government. Yet it was this government that extended the contract, and changed the WCA ,
  • 1Mickey1Mickey Posts: 10,427
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    tim59 wrote: »
    The old system was not done by GPs, it was done by doctors employed by the DWP.

    Fair enough. I'm not sure I'm old enough to remember.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,074
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    To be fair, he wasn't forced to attend. It clearly states in the article that he attended because he was scared he would have his benefits stopped if he didn't, even though he was in no fit state to go anywhere.

    If you're someone in his condition, I would imagine that logical thinking isn't really high on the agenda - the poor man was probably terrified that any perceived mis-step would cost him his benefits.

    But then that won't stop plenty of people on DS trying to downplay it and blame it on "tabloid sensationalism" rather than blame the Government and Ian Duncan Voldermort.
    ESA and ATOS were introduced by Labour and before ESA most people would of had to go to an assessment for IB or DLA.

    The article mentions polycytheamia and liver disease. Looking at the old DWP list of medical conditions that should or should not be asked to attend an assessment polycythemia is not on the list so would come under Any other Diagnosis Not listed above should be referred to a Medical Adviser, and liver failure is Reference to Medical Advisor. So under that list a medical adviser would or should be consulted before the claimant is asked or not asked to attend an assessment. I am unsure if this list is supposed to still be in use or if the current or previous government has removed this safe guard so contributing to the death.
  • LateralthinkingLateralthinking Posts: 8,027
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    It would be nice to think that at least £5 of the £20,000 merit bonus paid recently to the Head of DWP in addition to his alleged £200,000 annual salary could help towards paying for this unfortunate man's funeral expenses.

    I am just pleased that when I eventually depart this world, it will be without a terrible conscience.
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    ESA and ATOS were introduced by Labour and before ESA most people would of had to go to an assessment for IB or DLA.

    The article mentions polycytheamia and liver disease. Looking at the old DWP list of medical conditions that should or should not be asked to attend an assessment polycythemia is not on the list so would come under Any other Diagnosis Not listed above should be referred to a Medical Adviser, and liver failure is Reference to Medical Advisor. So under that list a medical adviser would or should be consulted before the claimant is asked or not asked to attend an assessment. I am unsure if this list is supposed to still be in use or if the current or previous government has removed this safe guard so contributing to the death.

    To be honest I have got to the stage were it seems the rule books have been thrown out of the window, the DWP say atos were not given targets, but atos trainers are shown and seen on camera, saying targets have been set. And any adviser putting more then 12% of people into the support group would have their work checked and reviewed, and also admitting this assessment is to get people off benefits. http://youtu.be/YkzHxXg0rfQ This is the full video http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwg0up_atos-secret-filming_news
  • zelda fanzelda fan Posts: 6,330
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    Sometimes i despair at the lack of compassion displayed by the governments (con or labour) towards the most vulnerable in society. Poor man R.I.P.
  • Tfan26Tfan26 Posts: 6,829
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    Oh the irony. Absolutely bloody awful treatment and process. R.I.P.
  • MARTYM8MARTYM8 Posts: 44,710
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    This is a sad case and I feel for the mans family.

    But seriously people how does attending an ATOS hearing cause you to contract pneumonia? This is what he died of.
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
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    Did they phone up ATOS before trying to attend despite the state of their health?
    Given the reports on ATOS stopping benefits perhaps he thought he had no choice but to attend.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,074
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Given the reports on ATOS stopping benefits perhaps he thought he had no choice but to attend.
    Do you think the climate of fear created around ATOS and ESA assessment is to blame? Rather than the actions of ATOS and the DWP in this case.

    I think the wording of the request to attend a face-to-face assessment should be amended, to make it clear that if you are incapable of attending due to your health or risk to your health of doing so you don't need to attend.

    I also think that in the assessment no requests to perform any physical action should be made to someone with a physical health problem unless the assessor is qualified to give an expert medical opinion on the claimants medical condition. As attempting the task requested could cause the claimant pain, discomfort or harm. And no one unqualified to give an expert medical opinion on mental condition should be asking people with mental conditions anything about their mental health. As asking someone with say a history or suicide attempts about their suicide attempts could result in them committing suicide, and asking someone about the cause of say a trauma caused personality disorder may also be harmful, etc.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,074
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    MARTYM8 wrote: »
    This is a sad case and I feel for the mans family.

    But seriously people how does attending an ATOS hearing cause you to contract pneumonia? This is what he died of.
    Maybe they would not have caught the infection had they not gone out and gone to the assessment. They had polycythemia and liver problems and we don't know what if any advice their doctor had given them as far as going out and being around lots of people or in the cold, etc. Polycythemia ranges from no effect on life expectancy, to dying of lung complications, like wise liver problems depend on how severe. Both these conditions under the old DWP list would have resulted in a medical advisor being consulted before any request to attend a face to face assessment was made. I would assume this safeguard existed for a reason.
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,988
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    A sad case and no doubt there are issues with these assessments but no one is forced to attend them.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    post hoc ergo propter hoc
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    jmclaugh wrote: »
    A sad case and no doubt there are issues with these assessments but no one is forced to attend them.

    Yes you are attend or lose your benefits.
  • BrokenArrowBrokenArrow Posts: 21,665
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    Sounds like he was on his death bed anyway, going a bit earlier saves a bit of money I suppose.
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