I know, but one day you'll be moaning about only getting 100Mb BB because everyone else is on 500Mb or more....;)
Just looked up and it says Nov 2012 Ofcom stated that the average was 12mb.
To be honest I was surprised it was that high, but suspect that fibre customers disproportionally alter the average figure.
Until fibre becomes cheaper for Mr Average and is the norm, we are a long way off the 100mb.
If i disable commodo security, the store works, but once it enabled the store comes up with a error, saying that it can not connect.
startisback will not work with windows8.1
No it don't, it will not put a notice in the taskbar to say updates are available like the older versions of windows. there is a bit of software to solve that, but it is another third party software.
if I am going to keep using third party software then I may as well go back to windows 7
Comodo, I used to use that many moons ago, still going strong then. They used to have a good support forum, your answer may be there.
For startisback, wait until the W8.1 preview is out then that may change.
Assume that was tried on that W8.1 leaked build which was heavily stripped.
Not heard of your startisback before. Do you use that one for any reason, notice it was not free?
Ok, I had not heard of your windows update scenario, but just read a nice article on Tweaking with Vishal, that is poor to be honest.
Metro lockscreen shows updates, joke!
I've got StartMenuX installed but use it less and less as I get used to W8. I guess that will have to be modified as well as all the others. It seems the new W8.1 start button is not optional and sits in the corner of the task-bar, I guess this will have to be disabled somehow for any other start button to be positioned in the correct position.
OS X has the right balance, a good Desktop experience with apps confined to Launchpad for those interested in apps. I never thought I would say it but I now consider OS X as my main OS with Windows a complimentary fall back.
When at the university I and a friend wrote a screensaver for Windows 95 that showed the shutdown screen "It's now safe to turn off your computer" and installed it around. A few people weren't amused
Only thing a few people wanted it on DVDs so had to create those on a PC, luddites! and then one of those said they played the DVD on their Mac, aaaah!
Why would they be luddites? Some people still prefer physical media.
Comodo, I used to use that many moons ago, still going strong then. They used to have a good support forum, your answer may be there.
I been using comodo for a while now, only the free version until a few months back and they gave me a good offer for the pro.
I may have a look at the supprot forum at some point when I can be bothered, but as I said it is not a big deal as I don't use the store anyway. i just went to be nosy
For startisback, wait until the W8.1 preview is out then that may change.
Assume that was tried on that W8.1 leaked build which was heavily stripped.
The person who wrote the software said it will not work, something about MS taking out coding that it it requires.
Not heard of your startisback before. Do you use that one for any reason, notice it was not free?
Yes, I use it because i like it and I think it is the better than the others.
Personal opinion. since i have paid for it, while it was not a great deal, I don't want to scrap it. so if windows 8.1 offers nothing to me than I may as well stay as I am
Ok, I had not heard of your windows update scenario, but just read a nice article on Tweaking with Vishal, that is poor to be honest.
Metro lockscreen shows updates, joke!
It is a pain in the neck, the software you pointed out to I have got, but it is not perfect.
O think MS wants more and more control and maybe think if they make it a pain then more people will use auto updating, so that MS can stick any crap onto the Os they want then.
I so wish the software IO want to use was better on Linux, i really wish it was. I could then dump windows and MS
OS X has the right balance, a good Desktop experience with apps confined to Launchpad for those interested in apps. I never thought I would say it but I now consider OS X as my main OS with Windows a complimentary fall back.
As a long time Windows enthusiast I must say I'm coming to the same conclusion. I still use Windows 7 most of the time, but I am accepting that going forward Windows 8 is what MS are moving Windows towards and, tbh, I don't buy into it. At home I have moved more and more of my work to OSX and now find I spend as much time in OSX as I do in Windows. OSX still annoy the balls off me, but it is infinitely preferential to Windows 8. The idea that you have to piss about with Classic Shell et al to get basic functionality which is central to my workflow is not acceptable to me. Plus the Modern UI/UX on a 27" screen is beyond ridiculous.
As a long time Windows enthusiast I must say I'm coming to the same conclusion. I still use Windows 7 most of the time, but I am accepting that going forward Windows 8 is what MS are moving Windows towards and, tbh, I don't buy into it. At home I have moved more and more of my work to OSX and now find I spend as much time in OSX as I do in Windows. OSX still annoy the balls off me, but it is infinitely preferential to Windows 8. The idea that you have to piss about with Classic Shell et al to get basic functionality which is central to my workflow is not acceptable to me. Plus the Modern UI/UX on a 27" screen is beyond ridiculous.
I bet jammers and Valhund are high-fiving now!
Dave
From what I've found, it's quite easy to stay in desktop and you only need to go into metro when doing a start screen search for applications not pinned to your taskbar or searching for settings. (Can just open file explorer and do file search from there.)
Windows 8.1 will give you the option to search in a side pane, keeping your main desktop open. It will also give you boot-to-desktop.
This should go a long way to helping you not leave the desktop.
Additionally, on a 27" WQHD monitor, you should be able to snap up to four metro apps. Whilst you understandably have no desire to use them on such a big screen, it does allow for some degree of multi-tasking. You can also have metro on more than one monitor simultaneously also with 8.1. One key thing, they would need to do is allow for more dense app. Their current application of metro is really designed for small-screen touch where you want large gaps between between bits of information and different controls.
We don't have any 27" monitors in the house but my Dad's PC has two 23" 1080p monitors attached to it. (Plus two SXGA monitors on the sides). Whilst I also wouldn't use metro for work, the full screen immersion was nice for leisure, in particular using apps like the News app.
The idea that you have to piss about with Classic Shell et al to get basic functionality which is central to my workflow is not acceptable to me.
There is none of that. You download Classic Shell (1 minute) install it (1 minute) configure it (1 minute if you just want to get rid of Metro) then forget about it.
I spent hours, days, weeks on and off trying to learn to love Metro before I gave up and dumped it but these days, I can barely remember much of what it even looked like.
If I read that 8.1 nobbles any of the basic Classic Shell functionality that I use, I will not install 8.1. Simple as - but there will be no "pissing about", either way.
There is none of that. You download Classic Shell (1 minute) install it (1 minute) configure it (1 minute if you just want to get rid of Metro) then forget about it.
I spent hours, days, weeks on and off trying to learn to love Metro before I gave up and dumped it but these days, I can barely remember much of what it even looked like.
If I read that 8.1 nobbles any of the basic Classic Shell functionality that I use, I will not install 8.1. Simple as - but there will be no "pissing about", either way.
My contention is not that it is laborious but that you have to do it in the first place. Then there is the issue of compatibility with updates as you allude to. I'm sorry, I don't want to piss around with computers, particularly not the basics, I want to do my work on them enjoy the little bit of recreation I have on them without thinking about this sort of thing. There is also the principle that I shouldn't be doing this because of some dick decision in Redmond.
My contention is not that it is laborious but that you have to do it in the first place. Then there is the issue of compatibility with updates as you allude to. I'm sorry, I don't want to piss around with computers, particularly not the basics, I want to do my work on them enjoy the little bit of recreation I have on them without thinking about this sort of thing. There is also the principle that I shouldn't be doing this because of some dick decision in Redmond.
Others may feel differently.
Dave
The issue for me is that any third party fix may at any time not work after an upgrade.
It's so simple for MS to fix this just bring back a start menu and have the option to disable the Metro UI junk for those that dont want it. They (and some press) are getting confused between this and the start button. What most desktop users want is the old simple start menu which does NOT obliterate and use up the whole screen ( ridiculous on a large monitor )
They can't event get Metro right. Cut the rope for example a nice addictive game which works ok with a mouse is nearly unplayable on windows 8 as the mouse still brings up the charms bar if you go into a corner.
The senior managers in Microsoft are idiots especially Ballmer.
From what I've found, it's quite easy to stay in desktop and you only need to go into metro when doing a start screen search for applications not pinned to your taskbar or searching for settings. (Can just open file explorer and do file search from there.)
Windows 8.1 will give you the option to search in a side pane, keeping your main desktop open. It will also give you boot-to-desktop.
This should go a long way to helping you not leave the desktop.
Additionally, on a 27" WQHD monitor, you should be able to snap up to four metro apps. Whilst you understandably have no desire to use them on such a big screen, it does allow for some degree of multi-tasking. You can also have metro on more than one monitor simultaneously also with 8.1. One key thing, they would need to do is allow for more dense app. Their current application of metro is really designed for small-screen touch where you want large gaps between between bits of information and different controls.
We don't have any 27" monitors in the house but my Dad's PC has two 23" 1080p monitors attached to it. (Plus two SXGA monitors on the sides). Whilst I also wouldn't use metro for work, the full screen immersion was nice for leisure, in particular using apps like the News app.
More of the wishy washy 'Its ok there are work arounds if you don't like metro, and it's not that bad honest'
I think you're missing the point. A lot of people want to be able to disable the Metro UI altogether
More of the wishy washy 'Its ok there are work arounds if you don't like metro, and it's not that bad honest'
I think you're missing the point. A lot of people want to be able to disable the Metro UI altogether
Nothing I mentioned is a workaround. It's all stuff native to 8.1 which we'll all be able to evaluate in a couple of weeks. You're giving an impression that you think only one opinion (yours) is valid.
I understand that people want to disable it altogether but MS isn't allowing that.
My point is that if one doesn't take one look at the start screen and throw their toys out of the pram and tries to work with 8 or 8.1 then there's not much actual disruption to workflow.
I certainly haven't found any disruption to workflow relative to 7, in fact I think it has improved due to the (in my opinion) superior search in 8 versus 7. I like that search is focused and there is more space for more results.
When you do a start-menu search in Windows 7, you have to look at it to pick your results anyway and click on it, so your focus is off your other windows anyway. So I don't believe the full-screen start screen search is any worse. I also find that improved keyboard support to control the OS relative to 7 is also an improvement to workflow.
Nothing I mentioned is a workaround. It's all stuff native to 8.1 which we'll all be able to evaluate in a couple of weeks. You're giving an impression that you think only one opinion (yours) is valid.
But it is a work around, just because it is native to windows 8.1, don't mean it is not a work around.
I understand that people want to disable it altogether but MS isn't allowing that.
No, these companies seems to think they know better until they lose sales.
My point is that if one doesn't take one look at the start screen and throw their toys out of the pram and tries to work with 8 or 8.1 then there's not much actual disruption to workflow.
I certainly haven't found any disruption to workflow relative to 7,
it is a disruption if it keeps going back to metro apps. since i had to restore my computer to a earlier image, I now got to go around and make sure that none of my files uses metro apps again.
This time i will make another image, once it is done.
in fact I think it has improved due to the (in my opinion) superior search in 8 versus 7. I like that search is focused and there is more space for more results.
When you do a start-menu search in Windows 7, you have to look at it to pick your results anyway and click on it, so your focus is off your other windows anyway. So I don't believe the full-screen start screen search is any worse. I also find that improved keyboard support to control the OS relative to 7 is also an improvement to workflow.
Too integrated with Bing, I think, i like to choose my search engine.
My point is that if one doesn't take one look at the start screen and throw their toys out of the pram and tries to work with 8 or 8.1 then there's not much actual disruption to workflow.
I certainly haven't found any disruption to workflow relative to 7, in fact I think it has improved due to the (in my opinion) superior search in 8 versus 7. I like that search is focused and there is more space for more results.
When you do a start-menu search in Windows 7, you have to look at it to pick your results anyway and click on it, so your focus is off your other windows anyway. So I don't believe the full-screen start screen search is any worse. I also find that improved keyboard support to control the OS relative to 7 is also an improvement to workflow.
Unfortunately humans are not very good with context switching, and Start in Windows 8 contravenes this simple rule. This is a problem beyond habit, there is a fundamental flaw in the design from a HCI perspective.
Unfortunately humans are not very good with context switching, and Start in Windows 8 contravenes this simple rule. This is a problem beyond habit, there is a fundamental flaw in the design from a HCI perspective.
Dave
I always like your responses Dave, to the point and seem informed.
I had looked at the context-switching so far as a habit issue. Whilst I too felt the cognitive overhead of the switch, it didn't feel like a huge amount. I certainly got used to it. But don't we have context-switching when switching from one application to another? Especially when both are full-screen? Or even from one tab to another when browsing full-screen? Perhaps I am used to context-switching constantly when on a computer that I see less difference between it all now.
There is still a bit of jarring for me but I do it so rarely that it's not an issue. I'm hoping that the 8.1 change I mentioned where you get the side pane for searching but the rest of the screen remains the same may be sufficiently non-jarring.
This might be a bit off topic but I thought it was worth mentioning. I was in Maplins the other day and they were selling an OEM copy of Windows 8 and they advertised it as being ideal to run on a Mac! I was laughing my head off Who in their right mind would desecrate a beautiful shiny Mac with such a crap OS? :eek:
This might be a bit off topic but I thought it was worth mentioning. I was in Maplins the other day and they were selling an OEM copy of Windows 8 and they advertised it as being ideal to run on a Mac! I was laughing my head off Who in their right mind would desecrate a beautiful shiny Mac with such a crap OS? :eek:
Then why not just get a windows based machine? cheaper than a Mac.
Most people I know that uses a Mac, would not even think about running windows on their machines. A close friend of mine, tells me that if I put anything produced by MS on her Mac, she would kick me so hard, i would not stop crying for a week.:) i think she was joking. not that I would do that to her Macs.
Yes, but couldn't they use Windows 7 rather than that festering turd of an OS known as Windows 8? You can still buy copies of it online. I bought one from my local Apple reseller a few weeks back. I run W7 on mine for games and Dark Side software I might need.
Then why not just get a windows based machine? cheaper than a Mac.
Most people I know that uses a Mac, would not even think about running windows on their machines. A close friend of mine, tells me that if I put anything produced by MS on her Mac, she would kick me so hard, i would not stop crying for a week.:) i think she was joking. not that I would do that to her Macs.
If I had the money I'd have a Mac but have Windows 8 installed for when I wanted to play games etc hat don't run on a Mac. I expect a lot of other folk that play games but want a Mac do the same.
Yes, but couldn't they use Windows 7 rather than that festering turd of an OS known as Windows 8? You can still buy copies of it online. I bought one from my local Apple reseller a few weeks back. I run W7 on mine for games and Dark Side software I might need.
I'd rather have a better OS thanks - kind of amusing that an Apple re-seller sells Windows as well
I'd rather have a better OS thanks - kind of amusing that an Apple re-seller sells Windows as well
An OS better than W8? Well my local one does but I don't know if any other resellers do. Maybe there are more people wanting to run Windows on their Macs than I thought
This might be a bit off topic but I thought it was worth mentioning. I was in Maplins the other day and they were selling an OEM copy of Windows 8 and they advertised it as being ideal to run on a Mac! I was laughing my head off Who in their right mind would desecrate a beautiful shiny Mac with such a crap OS? :eek:
Yes, it is off topic, and you once again introduce Macs into a thread that has nothing to do with them.
Comments
Just looked up and it says Nov 2012 Ofcom stated that the average was 12mb.
To be honest I was surprised it was that high, but suspect that fibre customers disproportionally alter the average figure.
Until fibre becomes cheaper for Mr Average and is the norm, we are a long way off the 100mb.
Comodo, I used to use that many moons ago, still going strong then. They used to have a good support forum, your answer may be there.
For startisback, wait until the W8.1 preview is out then that may change.
Assume that was tried on that W8.1 leaked build which was heavily stripped.
Not heard of your startisback before. Do you use that one for any reason, notice it was not free?
Ok, I had not heard of your windows update scenario, but just read a nice article on Tweaking with Vishal, that is poor to be honest.
Metro lockscreen shows updates, joke!
LOL I remember that shutdown screen
Why would they be luddites? Some people still prefer physical media.
I been using comodo for a while now, only the free version until a few months back and they gave me a good offer for the pro.
I may have a look at the supprot forum at some point when I can be bothered, but as I said it is not a big deal as I don't use the store anyway. i just went to be nosy
The person who wrote the software said it will not work, something about MS taking out coding that it it requires. Yes, I use it because i like it and I think it is the better than the others.
Personal opinion. since i have paid for it, while it was not a great deal, I don't want to scrap it. so if windows 8.1 offers nothing to me than I may as well stay as I am
It is a pain in the neck, the software you pointed out to I have got, but it is not perfect.
O think MS wants more and more control and maybe think if they make it a pain then more people will use auto updating, so that MS can stick any crap onto the Os they want then.
I so wish the software IO want to use was better on Linux, i really wish it was. I could then dump windows and MS
As a long time Windows enthusiast I must say I'm coming to the same conclusion. I still use Windows 7 most of the time, but I am accepting that going forward Windows 8 is what MS are moving Windows towards and, tbh, I don't buy into it. At home I have moved more and more of my work to OSX and now find I spend as much time in OSX as I do in Windows. OSX still annoy the balls off me, but it is infinitely preferential to Windows 8. The idea that you have to piss about with Classic Shell et al to get basic functionality which is central to my workflow is not acceptable to me. Plus the Modern UI/UX on a 27" screen is beyond ridiculous.
I bet jammers and Valhund are high-fiving now!
Dave
From what I've found, it's quite easy to stay in desktop and you only need to go into metro when doing a start screen search for applications not pinned to your taskbar or searching for settings. (Can just open file explorer and do file search from there.)
Windows 8.1 will give you the option to search in a side pane, keeping your main desktop open. It will also give you boot-to-desktop.
This should go a long way to helping you not leave the desktop.
Additionally, on a 27" WQHD monitor, you should be able to snap up to four metro apps. Whilst you understandably have no desire to use them on such a big screen, it does allow for some degree of multi-tasking. You can also have metro on more than one monitor simultaneously also with 8.1. One key thing, they would need to do is allow for more dense app. Their current application of metro is really designed for small-screen touch where you want large gaps between between bits of information and different controls.
We don't have any 27" monitors in the house but my Dad's PC has two 23" 1080p monitors attached to it. (Plus two SXGA monitors on the sides). Whilst I also wouldn't use metro for work, the full screen immersion was nice for leisure, in particular using apps like the News app.
There is none of that. You download Classic Shell (1 minute) install it (1 minute) configure it (1 minute if you just want to get rid of Metro) then forget about it.
I spent hours, days, weeks on and off trying to learn to love Metro before I gave up and dumped it but these days, I can barely remember much of what it even looked like.
If I read that 8.1 nobbles any of the basic Classic Shell functionality that I use, I will not install 8.1. Simple as - but there will be no "pissing about", either way.
My contention is not that it is laborious but that you have to do it in the first place. Then there is the issue of compatibility with updates as you allude to. I'm sorry, I don't want to piss around with computers, particularly not the basics, I want to do my work on them enjoy the little bit of recreation I have on them without thinking about this sort of thing. There is also the principle that I shouldn't be doing this because of some dick decision in Redmond.
Others may feel differently.
Dave
The issue for me is that any third party fix may at any time not work after an upgrade.
It's so simple for MS to fix this just bring back a start menu and have the option to disable the Metro UI junk for those that dont want it. They (and some press) are getting confused between this and the start button. What most desktop users want is the old simple start menu which does NOT obliterate and use up the whole screen ( ridiculous on a large monitor )
They can't event get Metro right. Cut the rope for example a nice addictive game which works ok with a mouse is nearly unplayable on windows 8 as the mouse still brings up the charms bar if you go into a corner.
The senior managers in Microsoft are idiots especially Ballmer.
More of the wishy washy 'Its ok there are work arounds if you don't like metro, and it's not that bad honest'
I think you're missing the point. A lot of people want to be able to disable the Metro UI altogether
Nothing I mentioned is a workaround. It's all stuff native to 8.1 which we'll all be able to evaluate in a couple of weeks. You're giving an impression that you think only one opinion (yours) is valid.
I understand that people want to disable it altogether but MS isn't allowing that.
My point is that if one doesn't take one look at the start screen and throw their toys out of the pram and tries to work with 8 or 8.1 then there's not much actual disruption to workflow.
I certainly haven't found any disruption to workflow relative to 7, in fact I think it has improved due to the (in my opinion) superior search in 8 versus 7. I like that search is focused and there is more space for more results.
When you do a start-menu search in Windows 7, you have to look at it to pick your results anyway and click on it, so your focus is off your other windows anyway. So I don't believe the full-screen start screen search is any worse. I also find that improved keyboard support to control the OS relative to 7 is also an improvement to workflow.
But it is a work around, just because it is native to windows 8.1, don't mean it is not a work around.
No, these companies seems to think they know better until they lose sales.
it is a disruption if it keeps going back to metro apps. since i had to restore my computer to a earlier image, I now got to go around and make sure that none of my files uses metro apps again.
This time i will make another image, once it is done.
Too integrated with Bing, I think, i like to choose my search engine.
Unfortunately humans are not very good with context switching, and Start in Windows 8 contravenes this simple rule. This is a problem beyond habit, there is a fundamental flaw in the design from a HCI perspective.
Dave
I always like your responses Dave, to the point and seem informed.
I had looked at the context-switching so far as a habit issue. Whilst I too felt the cognitive overhead of the switch, it didn't feel like a huge amount. I certainly got used to it. But don't we have context-switching when switching from one application to another? Especially when both are full-screen? Or even from one tab to another when browsing full-screen? Perhaps I am used to context-switching constantly when on a computer that I see less difference between it all now.
There is still a bit of jarring for me but I do it so rarely that it's not an issue. I'm hoping that the 8.1 change I mentioned where you get the side pane for searching but the rest of the screen remains the same may be sufficiently non-jarring.
Someone needing Windows based software?
Then why not just get a windows based machine? cheaper than a Mac.
Most people I know that uses a Mac, would not even think about running windows on their machines. A close friend of mine, tells me that if I put anything produced by MS on her Mac, she would kick me so hard, i would not stop crying for a week.:) i think she was joking. not that I would do that to her Macs.
Yes, but couldn't they use Windows 7 rather than that festering turd of an OS known as Windows 8? You can still buy copies of it online. I bought one from my local Apple reseller a few weeks back. I run W7 on mine for games and Dark Side software I might need.
If I had the money I'd have a Mac but have Windows 8 installed for when I wanted to play games etc hat don't run on a Mac. I expect a lot of other folk that play games but want a Mac do the same.
I'd rather have a better OS thanks - kind of amusing that an Apple re-seller sells Windows as well
An OS better than W8? Well my local one does but I don't know if any other resellers do. Maybe there are more people wanting to run Windows on their Macs than I thought