I haven't posted much recently as I have been re watching witnesses.
At the risk of relighting the toilet light on or off debate Dr Stipp very, very clearly states that the toilet light was NOT on.
Mrs Stipp very, very clearly states the toilet light WAS on.
ETA: correction, she says light was showing through the toilet window, not that the actual light was on
I believe the judge will take more notice of Dr Stipp's evidence than Mrs Stipp's (due to her admitted memory failure re seeing the figure and holding back the curtain for the photo)
He is going to get away with it and just get a culpable homicide verdict >:(
I do not understand why the PROSECUTION didn't present evidence of bat strikes sounding like gun shots.
I do not understand why the prosecution insist all 4 shots happened at the same time. Nel states this, very clearly, in his argument with Roux when Dr Stipp is being cross examined. All four shots happened at 3.17. Yet this goes against the prosecution ballistic bloke who said at least one shot happened BEFORE the bat strike.
He is going to get away with it >:(
He won't 'get away with it' - Culpable Murder charge with negligence (which is the very least he'll get now following his car crash testimony).... can be anything up to 15 years in prison - The Prosecution still have to prove INTENT - but the pundits are saying he's going to get a long sentence, that's why he's paying the big guns to help him in his Defence, but some I think will pull out because Oscar testified already - and they have professional reputation they'd want to keep ! I think if OP had testified last, then he'd have kept the dream team ! the passengers are taking to the lifeboats and the titanic OP is going dowwwwwn !
no it's not - but that's why I think Reeva MUST have already been dead - Oscar said she was in his cross-exam to Nel.....then changed that to SHE WAS BREATHING WHEN I FOUND HER the following day to Nel. Phoning someone he knows down the road, and not a medical team is very telling why I think she must have been dead already -
and the Lawyer, Oldiewage turned up pretty sharply too, perhaps that's why OP didn't answer Rensburg who was first Policeman on scene, who asked OP on arrival "what happened?" and OP didn't answer !! Oldiewage would have told him DON'T SAY ANYTHING TO ANYBODY !
None of them phoned Reeva's mother not ONE person who went to that house to support OP
You posted the list in the order that OP made the calls, Cg misreads but you don't point out he called Netcare straight after Stander.. No I don't why it wasn't his first call but it wasn't after friends, family, lawyer etc.
Surely it was down to the police to inform Reeva's family!?
I posted earlier about Stipps and neighbours testimonies and Roux and OP who tried to discredit them when Roux was talking OP through his testimony on the Stand, see if you think they will be able to discredit them from the point in the VT link below
for this not to be admissible, we'd have to believe that the police took the duvet off the bed and then deliberately placed a trail of blood across the duvet and onto the carpet to form a neat pattern. That would also mean that they had to foresee OP's version of events as well. That's all very farfetched...surely It has be one of the strongest pieces of evidence we've heard!
Again, I can only relate this to what would happen in England and Wales but once there is an admission that the crime scene was contaminated, you cant then pick and choose which bits you think might not have been. Its either all or nothing.
I am going by what would happen in this country so I cannot say it is the same in SA but, in this country, NONE of the crime scene evidence would be admissible. Honestly! The errors admitted to by the police on the scene would mean, over here, that nothing described/photographed at the scene could be relied on or presented as factual evidence.
Its bloody sad that it may be the police themselves who are responsible for OP getting off without a murder conviction.
Especially given his arrogant treatment of them and clearly feeling he is above the law.
Good point. I'd not thought of that aspect of Stipp's testimony and what it meant for Nel's claim that the balcony doorway was blocked by the fan.
But do you remember OP being worried about the balcony and asked Nel during cross-exam if anyone had SEEN him on the balcony ? Tell me why would he ask that and be worried about it ? IF it wasn't a lie ? Even Nel then asked OP if he was tailoring his evidence and why would he ask that question ?
I don't think he went out onto the balcony,simply because why would he have wanted to draw attention to himself for having terrorised and killed his girlfriend ? I think he yelled HELP HELP HELP in ridicule when Reeva called out for help ! and I think he left the fans in front of that window and never went out onto that balcony !
He won't 'get away with it' - Culpable Murder charge with negligence (which is the very least he'll get now following his car crash testimony).... can be anything up to 15 years in prison - The Prosecution still have to prove INTENT - but the pundits are saying he's going to get a long sentence, that's why he's paying the big guns to help him in his Defence, but some I think will pull out because Oscar testified already - and they have professional reputation they'd want to keep ! I think if OP had testified last, then he'd have kept the dream team ! the passengers are taking to the lifeboats and the titanic OP is going dowwwwwn !
I said i think he will get away with murder. I do think he will be found guilty of ch
for this not to be admissible, we'd have to believe that the police took the duvet off the bed and then deliberately placed a trail of blood across the duvet and onto the carpet to form a neat pattern. That would also mean that they had to foresee OP's version of events as well. That's all very farfetched...surely It has be one of the strongest pieces of evidence we've heard!
Evidence of what?
Why would Nel seriously want to say OP couldn't get on to the balcony when to do so would be to say that Dr Stipp was wrong?
Hmmm... I can't think of a way he could deal with her car being there and her disappearing.
I suppose if he were panicking immediately after the shooting, he might have got some tape, rope and bags before the Standers arrived, but realised in the meantime that he wouldn't be able to explain her disappearance and abandoned the idea, but left the stuff (perhaps in the kitchen).
Maybe he then conveniently brought that very stuff out when Clarice asked for something to stem the blood flow with. Why she would ask very specifically for "rope or tape" and why the bin bags were also produced is a bit strange, I think.
I also think poor Reeva had passed away by then and so the heart would no longer be pumping blood out, there would only be slower oozing. So I can't figure out why they would be looking about for tourniquet materials at that point. Maybe the Standers were involved in an abandoned plan to dispose of the body, and perhaps between them they decided it wouldn't work, then OP later had to explain why those particular materials were there.
Clarice's evidence that she had asked OP to find "rope or tape or something" is key to this one, does anyone know if she testified?
I said i think he will get away with murder. I do think he will be found guilty of ch
Culpable Murder is a murder charge but without Intent - but think he'll get Culpable murder - with negligence - so it carries a sentence - because of his car crash testimony that he fired that gun accidentally, then he said he fired shots at the door- so because he's got himself tongue tied (lying) the Judge will not rule in OP's favour and rule a lessor sentence of Culpable Murder, which is an option.
I'm watching an interview with Robert Shapiro (OJ's lawyer)
Shapiro thinks that OP put forward a sworn affidavit, either...
1) He (OP) honestly believed what took place and wanted people to believe that he wasn't a murderer.
2)...this was the only way he would get bail - that if he didn't say anything (based on the facts and stringent laws in SA aboout the use of force and use of guns) perhaps would have resulted in him being denied bail and spending, at this point of time, almost a year in jail.
Anyone think that OP's sworn affidavit has caused more harm than good?
Thanks francie Lord! what an odd thing for her to say! I can imagine a thousand different reactions I'd have to being faced with that scene .. worrying about the media getting hold of the story wouldn't be one of them. Callous individuals.
I am going by what would happen in this country so I cannot say it is the same in SA but, in this country, NONE of the crime scene evidence would be admissible. Honestly! The errors admitted to by the police on the scene would mean, over here, that nothing described/photographed at the scene could be relied on or presented as factual evidence.
Its bloody sad that it may be the police themselves who are responsible for OP getting off without a murder conviction.
Also worth remembering that the defence hasn't even got started on listing all of the issues that they have with the way the crime scene was preserved and recorded by the SA police.
Thanks francie Lord! what an odd thing for her to say! I can imagine a thousand different reactions I'd have to being faced with that scene .. worrying about the media getting hold of the story wouldn't be one of them. Callous individuals.
You're welcome. Certainly was an odd thing, not to mention insensitive, to say under the circumstances. Perhaps her thoughts were more about the Estate's reputation?
Dr Stipp had made failed calls before he at last spoke to security.
Some of those times above may be correct - although I have it in mind that Johnson's was slightly sooner than 3:17 (I do recall it lasted 58 seconds).
The point is, all were reporting the first set of bangs which they were sure were gunshots, and the screaming and shouting that followed them. They all then heard the second set of sounds (which they thought were gunshots again), after which it went quiet.
The specific times are the phone record times of calls agreed by the prosecutor & defence. If Stipp was on the phone at the time of the 2nd bangs, then the subsequent calls were after BOTH sets of bangs. To believe otherwise is folly.
If you wish to believe otherwise that's your choice, it doesn't mean Pistorius did not shoot at least 3 rounds of Black Talon bullets into an innocent person.
But do you remember OP being worried about the balcony and asked Nel during cross-exam if anyone had SEEN him on the balcony ? Tell me why would he ask that and be worried about it ? IF it wasn't a lie ? Even Nel then asked OP if he was tailoring his evidence and why would he ask that question ?
I don't think he went out onto the balcony,simply because why would he have wanted to draw attention to himself for having terrorised and killed his girlfriend ? I think he yelled HELP HELP HELP in ridicule when Reeva called out for help ! and I think he left the fans in front of that window and never went out onto that balcony !
But Stipp testified that the sound of the man calling 'Help' came from much further to the left of the bathroom i.e. on the balcony.
Comments
You posted the list in the order that OP made the calls, Cg misreads but you don't point out he called Netcare straight after Stander.. No I don't why it wasn't his first call but it wasn't after friends, family, lawyer etc.
Surely it was down to the police to inform Reeva's family!?
Gee, I thought evil eyes had been forgotten, or at least thought of as silly. Did Elvis have evil eyes? - I'm being facetious, no reply required.
I will have a look
I don't think he went out onto the balcony,simply because why would he have wanted to draw attention to himself for having terrorised and killed his girlfriend ? I think he yelled HELP HELP HELP in ridicule when Reeva called out for help ! and I think he left the fans in front of that window and never went out onto that balcony !
I said i think he will get away with murder. I do think he will be found guilty of ch
BIB sounds like reading a novel
Kap sees evil eyes everywhere ;-)
Culpable Murder is a murder charge but without Intent - but think he'll get Culpable murder - with negligence - so it carries a sentence - because of his car crash testimony that he fired that gun accidentally, then he said he fired shots at the door- so because he's got himself tongue tied (lying) the Judge will not rule in OP's favour and rule a lessor sentence of Culpable Murder, which is an option.
Was it an accident?
Should guns be allowed to be kept in the bedside table?
Can windows be opened from the outside if closed?
Why lock your bedroom door? What about if there was a fire?
Shapiro thinks that OP put forward a sworn affidavit, either...
1) He (OP) honestly believed what took place and wanted people to believe that he wasn't a murderer.
2)...this was the only way he would get bail - that if he didn't say anything (based on the facts and stringent laws in SA aboout the use of force and use of guns) perhaps would have resulted in him being denied bail and spending, at this point of time, almost a year in jail.
Anyone think that OP's sworn affidavit has caused more harm than good?
ETA cancel that, found one
Also worth remembering that the defence hasn't even got started on listing all of the issues that they have with the way the crime scene was preserved and recorded by the SA police.
It's not Kap that has seen evil eyes ;-)
You're welcome. Certainly was an odd thing, not to mention insensitive, to say under the circumstances. Perhaps her thoughts were more about the Estate's reputation?
The specific times are the phone record times of calls agreed by the prosecutor & defence. If Stipp was on the phone at the time of the 2nd bangs, then the subsequent calls were after BOTH sets of bangs. To believe otherwise is folly.
If you wish to believe otherwise that's your choice, it doesn't mean Pistorius did not shoot at least 3 rounds of Black Talon bullets into an innocent person.
But Stipp testified that the sound of the man calling 'Help' came from much further to the left of the bathroom i.e. on the balcony.