Guys, Swiss Army make several knives that have blades well over the 3" mark, they also make blades that lock open, just because the picture in the Daily Hate is of a small Swiss Army Knife that doesn't mean this is what the chap was carrying at the time.
Guys, Swiss Army make several knives that have blades well over the 3" mark, they also make blades that lock open, just because the picture in the Daily Hate is of a small Swiss Army Knife that doesn't mean this is what the chap was carrying at the time.
That is a good point, the original would have been confiscated by the police?
Guys, Swiss Army make several knives that have blades well over the 3" mark, they also make blades that lock open, just because the picture in the Daily Hate is of a small Swiss Army Knife that doesn't mean this is what the chap was carrying at the time.
I don't think lock knives are illegal, though flick knives are, I believe.
PS: Which Swiss Army knives have blades longer than 3"? There may well be some, but I can't find them:
While lock knives are not illegal, possession of one in a public place without a reasonable excuse is.
You appear to be right, daft though the law is:
A lock knife is not a folding pocket knife and therefore it is illegal to carry around such a knife regardless of the length of the blade. A lock knife means a knife which is similar to a folding knife, in that there is a spring holding the blade closed. However, a lock knife has a mechanism which locks the blade in position when fully extended, the blade cannot be closed without that mechanism being released. A lock knife is not an offensive weapon per se (because these knives were made with a specific purpose in mind and not as a weapon). However, possession of a lock knife in a public place without reasonable excuse is an offence.
Whats the "generic" name for swiss army knives - that is knives that are similar but aren't made by that company?
I don't know. Pocket knives? Penknives? Folding knives? I was just responding to DGSx who said, "Swiss Army make several knives that have blades well over the 3" mark."
So similarly if someone says they use their knife for camping holidays, but they aren't on a camping holiday then the same reasoning applies, surely?
But it wasn't used just for camping holidays, was it?
He stated he used it for cutting up fruit.
You can do that at any time, not just when camping.
I have a "Life Hammer" in my car.
Am I breaking the law because, most of the time it's in my car, I'm not actually using it to break my window
Commonsense says a Swiss Army Knife, stored in a car's glove box, is there for good reasons, eg. vehicle repairs, cutting food, sharpening pencils, removing splinters, etc.
But it wasn't used just for camping holidays, was it?
He stated he used it for cutting up fruit.
You can do that at any time, not just when camping.
Cutting up fruit for his wife - who wasn't with him, and I assume there was no fruit there either?
So That refers back to my original question - at what point does a "good reason" stop being a good reason?
My carpet fitter wasn't fitting carpets at that particular time, but it is something that he uses for work so why is his reason any less "good" than this gentlemans?
Cutting up fruit for his wife - who wasn't with him, and I assume there was no fruit there either?
So he also uses it to cut up fruit for himself.
Hardly a threat to public safety, is it?
If there was no fruit in the car (which you are only assuming to be the case), then he could buy some at any time.
Is he supposed to buy a pound of apples, drive all the way back home, collect his knife, eat the apples, then take his knife back into the house, before restarting his journey?
What if he has a breakdown?
Does he leave his car where it is, take a train home, collect his knife, take a train back to his car, carry out a repair, take another train home to return the knife, catch yet another train back to his car, then carry on with his journey
Surely the exemption for " folding pocket knives was included in the Act, to cover just such everyday uses of pocket knives?
No, its not - as I have already said I am not debating the rights and wrongs of this particular case, just the "good reason" aspect of the law and how its applied.
Is it specifically stated in the Act, that public place includes a vehicle
If not, then it would definitely be worth arguing to overturn the decision of the previous court who defined it.
Especially, given that, under other Acts, the inside of a vehicle is defined as premises.
I'd be inclined to go for a re-interpretation, based on the "Man on the Clapham Omnibus".
Aren't knuckle dusters illegal anyway
They are an offensive weapon, which means it is illegal to possess them in public. The same applies to any offensive weapon.
If I stopped a car with gang members in possession of baseball bats, and the circumstances suggest they were to be used as weapons, surely there should be a power to deal.
Possession in a car, in a public place is a logical, and accepted thing to deal with these offences.
The car is under someones control, in a public place. How can you claim possession of weapon in such a place should be deemed public.
Guys, Swiss Army make several knives that have blades well over the 3" mark, they also make blades that lock open, just because the picture in the Daily Hate is of a small Swiss Army Knife that doesn't mean this is what the chap was carrying at the time.
We dont know how long the blade was, but if it was over 3", I would have expected the charge to have related to a bladed instrument, not an offensive weapon, as reported.
In that case, they would have to prove it was an offensive weapon, not merely a bladed instrument.
If this is as reported, his solicitor is clearly hopeless.
Of course, these reports are often far from accurate, especially when generated by the offender.
Hmm, a few of the Supernintendo's comments seem a little wrong to me.
"The vehicle was searched for a weapon and a Buck Whittaker lock knife was found. The knife is illegal and has a serrated edge."
Well it'[s not strictly illegal as there are many circumstances when it is legal, as he points out later in his statement.
"I can assure you that people who possess a Swiss Army knife for a bona fide reason will not be prosecuted."
Actually, no reason is needed to possess one, let along a "bona fide" reason, unless you intend to use it as a weapon.....
As an aside the knife in question seems to be a Buck X Tract Multi Tool, with a screwdriver and such much like a Swiss Army Knife.
Well done to the local Constabulary for releasing details of the incident.
A PREDATORY paedophile who accused police of “harassment” when he was caught with a penknife in his car has been jailed for 20 years for abusing young girls.
Rodney Knowles, 61, claimed he was being victimised by officers after they found the Swiss Army knife in his glove compartment
I remember reading about this case at the time, and taking an instant dislike to the guy, just from his photo.
Comments
I think you answered your own question, when you said:-
So similarly if someone says they use their knife for camping holidays, but they aren't on a camping holiday then the same reasoning applies, surely?
That is a good point, the original would have been confiscated by the police?
PS: Which Swiss Army knives have blades longer than 3"? There may well be some, but I can't find them:
http://www.victorinox.com/category/1/100
While lock knives are not illegal, possession of one in a public place without a reasonable excuse is.
https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q337.htm
Whats the "generic" name for swiss army knives - that is knives that are similar but aren't made by that company?
But it wasn't used just for camping holidays, was it?
He stated he used it for cutting up fruit.
You can do that at any time, not just when camping.
I have a "Life Hammer" in my car.
Am I breaking the law because, most of the time it's in my car, I'm not actually using it to break my window
Commonsense says a Swiss Army Knife, stored in a car's glove box, is there for good reasons, eg. vehicle repairs, cutting food, sharpening pencils, removing splinters, etc.
Cutting up fruit for his wife - who wasn't with him, and I assume there was no fruit there either?
So That refers back to my original question - at what point does a "good reason" stop being a good reason?
My carpet fitter wasn't fitting carpets at that particular time, but it is something that he uses for work so why is his reason any less "good" than this gentlemans?
I am debating the point of "good reason" using this guy as an example not making any comment on the rights or wrongs of this particular case.
So he also uses it to cut up fruit for himself.
Hardly a threat to public safety, is it?
If there was no fruit in the car (which you are only assuming to be the case), then he could buy some at any time.
Is he supposed to buy a pound of apples, drive all the way back home, collect his knife, eat the apples, then take his knife back into the house, before restarting his journey?
What if he has a breakdown?
Does he leave his car where it is, take a train home, collect his knife, take a train back to his car, carry out a repair, take another train home to return the knife, catch yet another train back to his car, then carry on with his journey
Surely the exemption for
No, its not - as I have already said I am not debating the rights and wrongs of this particular case, just the "good reason" aspect of the law and how its applied.
They are an offensive weapon, which means it is illegal to possess them in public. The same applies to any offensive weapon.
If I stopped a car with gang members in possession of baseball bats, and the circumstances suggest they were to be used as weapons, surely there should be a power to deal.
Possession in a car, in a public place is a logical, and accepted thing to deal with these offences.
The car is under someones control, in a public place. How can you claim possession of weapon in such a place should be deemed public.
We dont know how long the blade was, but if it was over 3", I would have expected the charge to have related to a bladed instrument, not an offensive weapon, as reported.
In that case, they would have to prove it was an offensive weapon, not merely a bladed instrument.
If this is as reported, his solicitor is clearly hopeless.
Of course, these reports are often far from accurate, especially when generated by the offender.
http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/news/Police-arrested-disabled-fruit-knife-man/article-2183657-detail/article.html
Thanks for that Zeph; so it was not a Swiss army knife and the guy had been making threats to use it.
All very different from what he told the paper.
Hmm, a few of the Supernintendo's comments seem a little wrong to me.
"The vehicle was searched for a weapon and a Buck Whittaker lock knife was found. The knife is illegal and has a serrated edge."
Well it'[s not strictly illegal as there are many circumstances when it is legal, as he points out later in his statement.
"I can assure you that people who possess a Swiss Army knife for a bona fide reason will not be prosecuted."
Actually, no reason is needed to possess one, let along a "bona fide" reason, unless you intend to use it as a weapon.....
As an aside the knife in question seems to be a Buck X Tract Multi Tool, with a screwdriver and such much like a Swiss Army Knife.
Well done to the local Constabulary for releasing details of the incident.
There just had to be more to it, and this information justifies the prosecution.
I don't know about more to the Swiss Army knife thing, but there was certainly more to him than met the eye, and in a very horrible way.
link here
I remember reading about this case at the time, and taking an instant dislike to the guy, just from his photo.
edit: didn't read the thread