Burnham 2016 EU Referndum

jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
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The next likely Labour leader has called for an early EU referendum in 2016 but seem rather confused on what the issue is.

Very much pro-EU Burnham said
"The referendum was only winnable if there was a credible package of reforms on immigration as the public was asking for it" and "he supported free movement of people but not the freedom to claim" and "Labour needed to make that change and have an immigration policy that people supported".

He is trying to make a benefits policy an immigration policy.

Comments

  • MeepersMeepers Posts: 5,502
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    So he wants a referendum, based on agreed reforms? But doesnt want any time negotiate those reforms?
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
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    Meepers wrote: »
    |So he wants a referendum, based on agreed reforms? But doesnt want any time negotiate those reforms?

    He seems concerned Cameron will fail to deliver reforms though it appears to him reforms simply means restricting the ability of EU immigrants to claim benefits.

    Why don't they all just admit the EU will not budge of freedom of movement.
  • MesostimMesostim Posts: 52,864
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    So he's trying to give you all want you want only sooner? What a dreadful man >:(
  • swingalegswingaleg Posts: 103,106
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    To be fair though he probably just wants to hasten the split in the Tory party.
  • ustarionustarion Posts: 20,322
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    swingaleg wrote: »
    To be fair though he probably just wants to hasten the split in the Tory party.

    Don't see how a referendum can split the party. They will be allowed to campaign on whatever side they want without fear.
  • swingalegswingaleg Posts: 103,106
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    ustarion wrote: »
    Don't see how a referendum can split the party. They will be allowed to campaign on whatever side they want without fear.

    it's the year or two before the referendum that could split the party.........when the anti EU MPs and the pro EU Government fight over what they should be negotiating

    eg I'm sure the right wing will demand that Britain pulls out of obligations over workers rights but the Government might se that as putting our inclusion in the single market at risk
  • ustarionustarion Posts: 20,322
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    swingaleg wrote: »
    it's the year or two before the referendum that could split the party.........when the anti EU MPs and the pro EU Government fight over what they should be negotiating

    eg I'm sure the right wing will demand that Britain pulls out of obligations over workers rights but the Government might se that as putting our inclusion in the single market at risk

    I don't see this happening. If it was negotiations over a new treaty then it would definitely split the party, but because it's a referendum I think they will be united without any need for whipping because it is not a parliamentary issue.

    This is probably the best thing for the tories. This will settle their Europe divide once and for all.
  • Living4LoveLiving4Love Posts: 1,989
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    ustarion wrote: »
    I don't see this happening. If it was negotiations over a new treaty then it would definitely split the party, but because it's a referendum I think they will be united without any need for whipping because it is not a parliamentary issue.

    This is probably the best thing for the tories. This will settle their Europe divide once and for all.

    And if the result is to stay in it could make all the anti EU Tory MPs and anti EU Tory voters jump ship to UKIP like many Lib Dem and Labour voters did with the SNP in Scotland.
  • ustarionustarion Posts: 20,322
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    And if the result is to stay in it could make all the anti EU Tory MPs and anti EU Tory voters jump ship to UKIP like many Lib Dem and Labour voters did with the SNP in Scotland.

    Maybe, but after seeing UKIP have a backbench rebellion with one MP, they may well think twice.
  • mooxmoox Posts: 18,880
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    Mesostim wrote: »
    So he's trying to give you all want you want only sooner? What a dreadful man >:(

    It couldn't be anything to do with grandstanding for the upcoming leadership "election", or something that might hasten the downfall of the current government.

    Actually, probably not - this is Burnham after all, not exactly a top tier politician or person
  • gemma-the-huskygemma-the-husky Posts: 18,116
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    its a bit rich Labour making any comment on this at all. :D
  • barrcode88barrcode88 Posts: 6,849
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    Tony Benn also wanted an EU referendum and was a big Eurosceptic, and the Green Party support an EU referendum because they think they could win it and Burnham thinks he can win it also. Cameron will probably put eurosceptic Iain Duncan Smith in charge of the No campaign and make it difficult as possible.

    Not really pandering to UKIP since there is euroscepticism in other parties.
  • mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,308
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    its a bit rich Labour making any comment on this at all. :D
    Why?

    ..
  • BoyardBoyard Posts: 5,393
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    Burnham should stand firm on being against an EU referendum. The issue is too complicated for the average voter to understand.
  • glasshalffullglasshalffull Posts: 22,291
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    its a bit rich Labour making any comment on this at all. :D

    Don't be silly...what do you expect them to do...and if you imagine Dave won't be very glad of the help of Labour/SNP/Uncle Tom Cobbly on the side of "yes" you must have Titania as one of your neighbours.:D
  • glasshalffullglasshalffull Posts: 22,291
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    Boyard wrote: »
    Burnham should stand firm on being against an EU referendum. The issue is too complicated for the average voter to understand.

    When they start hearing from their bosses they are delaying investment would bring more job security in case there is a NO vote I think you will find many wise up PDQ ;-)
  • thenetworkbabethenetworkbabe Posts: 45,624
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    Meepers wrote: »
    So he wants a referendum, based on agreed reforms? But doesnt want any time negotiate those reforms?

    He wants ukip voters - by claiming Cameron failed to get reforms and claiming he would have........

    He seems to share Miliband's theory that the average Labour voter is a simpleton . He's just reversing policy to try and chase an escaping vote
  • clinchclinch Posts: 11,574
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    Boyard wrote: »
    Burnham should stand firm on being against an EU referendum. The issue is too complicated for the average voter to understand.

    If it's too difficult for us to understand then it is definitely too difficult for the dick-heads running the country to understand. If it is so difficult then we should revert to the status quo and rescind the decision to enter the Common Market in the first place.
  • BryanandLucBryanandLuc Posts: 1,056
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    He wants ukip voters - by claiming Cameron failed to get reforms and claiming he would have........

    He seems to share Miliband's theory that the average Labour voter is a simpleton . He's just reversing policy to try and chase an escaping vote


    When did Ed declare the "average Labour voter is a simpleton"?
  • duncannduncann Posts: 11,969
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    Mesostim wrote: »
    So he's trying to give you all want you want only sooner? What a dreadful man >:(

    Last week he was fully signed up to the view that there should not be a referendum because it would so damaging to the country. He's only changed his opinion because it would be pointless to argue that now as Labour is so weak in the House. Now he will argue to bring it sooner but Cameron needs a good year plus to get enough time to negotiate as there are 27 separate countries involved. With a referendum looming it gives Cameron a trump card in negotiations. This is a golden opportunity for the UK while the Eurozone is very rickety.
  • i am godi am god Posts: 733
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    labour gone for good finaly
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