Isn't that because you think it should all be raised to 21?
It just doesn't sound realistic at all. Imagine being put on the sex offenders register for dating a 20 year old.
How many couples would suddenly be in an illegal relationship? Imagine not being allowed to date a 20 year old at what... 22/3? I'm not sure what gap would be allowed.
Not to mention that many people will have been physically mature for upto 10 years or so by that point.
Of course 11 year olds shouldn't be having sex but there has to be a point where people are allowed to do what is a natural biological function. Expecting people to wait for 10 years is ridiculous IMO. (unless they want to wait, of course).
You have to be in full-time education until you are 18 now, unless start an apprenticeship or traineeship.
England
You can leave school on the last Friday in June if you’ll be 16 by the end of the summer holidays.
You must then do one of the following until you’re 18:
stay in full-time education, for example at a college
start an apprenticeship or traineeship
spend 20 hours or more a week working or volunteering, while in part-time education or training
I voted no, but not because they are mature enough. It's more because hormones will trigger what they always trigger. Criminalising randy teenagers is not going to help the situation. What's needed is education and 'support' while they come to terms with their sexuality. Criminalising it just means they are going to do it in secret and the first you'll know about it is when they come crying to you because one of them has got knocked up.
People need to understand that while we have to have laws those that attempt to correct human instinctive behaviour are unlikely to succeed and often cause more harm than good by hiding the problem.
Not to mention that many people will have been physically mature for upto 10 years or so by that point.
Of course 11 year olds shouldn't be having sex but there has to be a point where people are allowed to do what is a natural biological function. Expecting people to wait for 10 years is ridiculous IMO. (unless they want to wait, of course).
It is an odd thought to me. I wasn't a particularly "randy" teen, but I was more than ready for a relationship. I usually hear people say that we baby adults too much, but some want us to treat 18-20 year olds as children.
I can't imagine being told at 20 to end my relationship, because I was basically a kid and my older boyfriend was a predator commiting an illegal act
It is an odd thought to me. I wasn't a particularly "randy" teen, but I was more than ready for a relationship. I usually hear people say that we baby adults too much, but some want us to treat 18-20 year olds as children.
I can't imagine being told at 20 to end my relationship, because I was basically a kid and my older boyfriend was a predator commiting an illegal act
The point im trying to make is that at 16 a child is far to young to be seen as "legal" to the opposite sex.
Moving the consent limit to 18 wouldn't stop people having sex at 17, 15 or even 13 but it would make it less attractive for an adult to pray on a 16 year old who has only been "legal" for weeks.
Age laws in this country are stupid. When you reach 14 you have to pay full price for everything, when you are 16 you can have sex, get married but have no say in how the country is run. It's not until you are 18 that you get the full benefits of being an "adult"
It should be 16 for everything.
I would vote NO, but not because I think 16 year olds are mature enough. I think most 16 year olds are not very mature, but they are going to do it anyway so why criminalise them. They will just end up doing it in secret, with less protection. I think 16 is about right looking at the bigger picture.
Age laws in this country are stupid. When you reach 14 you have to pay full price for everything, when you are 16 you can have sex, get married but have no say in how the country is run. It's not until you are 18 that you get the full benefits of being an "adult"
It should be 16 for everything.
While I agree the age of consent should remain at 16, I strongly disagree that everything should be set to 16. Certain things require different levels of maturity, you can't lump them all together. Also, from being 16 once myself and now as a father, I personally think that big life changing things like that need to be spaced out. Giving kids everything all at once (drinking, driving, betting) could be a recipe for disaster. I think we have got it just about right in this country.
There is no comfortable answer in a materialistic society, with all its sexual decadence and superficiality.
I am not a fan of religion, but I think that something seriously has to take its place in prioritizing spiritual growth. Then we won't cultivate so many weirdos, teenagers will stop acting the mental age of toddlers, and the question of age of consent will be less vexed.
Lets send them all to work up chimneys at age 8. That'll teach 'em.
Bring back chastity belts! Stuff this silly education and sex stuff, AKA, the reality of far better 21st century life.
You're saying nothing which hasn't been said by older people since the human race infected the planet.
Any cut off point is going to be arbitrary, be it 16, 18 or anything else, It's of necessity a one size fits all approach. However it doesn't take account of each individual's level of maturity - indeed plenty of people over 18 are very immature.
Leave it as it is, lower everything to 16 e.g drinking, smoking, driving, voting all that shit, the law states that those aged 16 and 17 aren't minors so they shouldn't be treated as such, if they **** up then that' their fault, and also what freedom is about.
Maybe bring back corporal punishment to schools to prevent bad behaviour as since it's abolishment we've seen the trend of the Maga generation with boys going there to rape girls etc.
I'm a free will sceptic so, in basic terms, I don't think any human of any age can give consent to anything of their own free will. Even if you find it hard to accept that free will (as the term is commonly used) is a delusion, it's surely a belief that sits most comfortably alongside other matters of faith. As such, arguably we need to completely overhaul our core beliefs and attitudes and institutions, including our legal and criminal justice systems, to reflect a quite different paradigm of human behaviour.
I'm a free will sceptic so, in basic terms, I don't think any human of any age can give consent to anything of their own free will. Even if you find it hard to accept that free will (as the term is commonly used) is a delusion, it's surely a belief that sits most comfortably alongside other matters of faith. As such, arguably we need to completely overhaul our beliefs and attitudes and institutions, including our legal and criminal justice systems, to reflect a quite different paradigm of human behaviour.
How would we change our beliefs, attitudes and institutions if we do not have free will and can not consent to anything?
Leave it as it is, lower everything to 16 e.g drinking, smoking, driving, voting all that shit, the law states that those aged 16 and 17 aren't minors so they shouldn't be treated as such, if they **** up then that' their fault, and also what freedom is about.
Maybe bring back corporal punishment to schools to prevent bad behaviour as since it's abolishment we've seen the trend of the Maga generation with boys going there to rape girls etc.
Yeah, bring back that physical abuse and let perverse teachers get their rocks off too.
How would we change our beliefs, attitudes and institutions if we do not have free will and can not consent to anything?
The simple answer is that a change in a mental state such as a belief or an attitude doesn't require free will. It simply requires a set of causes. Even people with a very strong faith in free will accept that beliefs are caused (i.e. are beyond the believer's control) to some extent. Free will sceptics just go one (logical) step further.
One of the significant causes of faith in free will is mainstream religion. Some of the major religions simply would not work without heavily promoting the idea that a supernatural creator has given humans the supernatural ability of free will. However, religions evolve or die out or become less influential so this particular cause of free will faith may well in time diminish.
There's a myriad of other causes and I'm not trying to pick on religion. Lots of atheists and irreligious people believe in free will too but then it's hard to escape the influence of religion in our culture whether or not you buy into religious mythology.
The simple answer is that a change in a mental state such as a belief or an attitude doesn't require free will. It simply requires a set of causes. Even people with a very strong faith in free will accept that beliefs are caused (i.e. are beyond the believer's control) to some extent. Free will sceptics just go one (logical) step further.
One of the significant causes of faith in free will is mainstream religion. Some of the major religions simply would not work without heavily promoting the idea that a supernatural creator has given humans the supernatural ability of free will. However, religions evolve or die out or become less influential so this particular cause of free will faith may well in time diminish.
There's a myriad of other causes and I'm not trying to pick on religion. Lots of atheists and irreligious people believe in free will too but then it's hard to escape the influence of religion in our culture whether or not you buy into religious mythology.
That doesn't really answer the question for me, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree before the thread is derailed.
Comments
Not to mention that many people will have been physically mature for upto 10 years or so by that point.
Of course 11 year olds shouldn't be having sex but there has to be a point where people are allowed to do what is a natural biological function. Expecting people to wait for 10 years is ridiculous IMO. (unless they want to wait, of course).
England
You can leave school on the last Friday in June if you’ll be 16 by the end of the summer holidays.
You must then do one of the following until you’re 18:
stay in full-time education, for example at a college
start an apprenticeship or traineeship
spend 20 hours or more a week working or volunteering, while in part-time education or training
People need to understand that while we have to have laws those that attempt to correct human instinctive behaviour are unlikely to succeed and often cause more harm than good by hiding the problem.
It is an odd thought to me. I wasn't a particularly "randy" teen, but I was more than ready for a relationship. I usually hear people say that we baby adults too much, but some want us to treat 18-20 year olds as children.
I can't imagine being told at 20 to end my relationship, because I was basically a kid and my older boyfriend was a predator commiting an illegal act
The point im trying to make is that at 16 a child is far to young to be seen as "legal" to the opposite sex.
Moving the consent limit to 18 wouldn't stop people having sex at 17, 15 or even 13 but it would make it less attractive for an adult to pray on a 16 year old who has only been "legal" for weeks.
It should be 16 for everything.
While I agree the age of consent should remain at 16, I strongly disagree that everything should be set to 16. Certain things require different levels of maturity, you can't lump them all together. Also, from being 16 once myself and now as a father, I personally think that big life changing things like that need to be spaced out. Giving kids everything all at once (drinking, driving, betting) could be a recipe for disaster. I think we have got it just about right in this country.
Lets send them all to work up chimneys at age 8. That'll teach 'em.
Bring back chastity belts! Stuff this silly education and sex stuff, AKA, the reality of far better 21st century life.
You're saying nothing which hasn't been said by older people since the human race infected the planet.
Yes, but she lives in the real world.
Maybe bring back corporal punishment to schools to prevent bad behaviour as since it's abolishment we've seen the trend of the Maga generation with boys going there to rape girls etc.
Agreed, the BBFC rating system should go like this:
U (all ages)
PG (parental guidance)
12 (under 12's must be accompanied an adult)
16 (under 16's must be accompanied an adult)
I always found it funny that those aged 16 and 17 couldn't see Fifty Shades of Grey at the cinema but could legally reenact the entire film
Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. It's yours I'm struggling with.
How would we change our beliefs, attitudes and institutions if we do not have free will and can not consent to anything?
Then, perhaps you could explain how it refutes or relates to anything I said.
It's not gonna happen anyway.
Yeah, bring back that physical abuse and let perverse teachers get their rocks off too.
It makes naughty kids behave better, compare pensioners to those under 40 to see the difference.
The simple answer is that a change in a mental state such as a belief or an attitude doesn't require free will. It simply requires a set of causes. Even people with a very strong faith in free will accept that beliefs are caused (i.e. are beyond the believer's control) to some extent. Free will sceptics just go one (logical) step further.
One of the significant causes of faith in free will is mainstream religion. Some of the major religions simply would not work without heavily promoting the idea that a supernatural creator has given humans the supernatural ability of free will. However, religions evolve or die out or become less influential so this particular cause of free will faith may well in time diminish.
There's a myriad of other causes and I'm not trying to pick on religion. Lots of atheists and irreligious people believe in free will too but then it's hard to escape the influence of religion in our culture whether or not you buy into religious mythology.
Might as well go back to the pre 1970 system:-
U (all ages)
A (Under 16's must be accompanied by an adult)
X (Over 16 only)
That doesn't really answer the question for me, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree before the thread is derailed.
Would be like dropping the speed limit to 60. Wouldnt change anything.
All you would have is more work for the police.