The universe and life has a certain rhythm, although it is a nice idea that good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people, it simply isn't true.
I do think however that most bullies, scammers and generally nasty individuals get their up-and-commence at some point. Unfortunately living a good and generous life doesn't in any way guarantee you any rewards, you can still be murdered, die of cancer or die in a car crash. It is the absurdity of life.
My advice would be just love connecting with the people, in the end that's all that really matters.
Humans are very narcissistic. We gloss over our 'wrongs' and we can get conditioned into believing in simplified, superficial and trivial gestures of 'goodness': charity -- good: generosity -- good: smiles a lot -- good: . In fact, we do a lot of 'wrong' things, often excused by the idea of 'human primacy'.
What is wrong is not the idea of karma per se, but more our concept of right and wrong.
I don't believe in it in the spiritual sense but I do see it happening in a philisopical sense. The way you live your life in a variety of ways will reflect itself on how you enjoy your life because of how you treated as a result.
Humans are very narcissistic. We gloss over our 'wrongs' and we can get conditioned into believing in simplified, superficial and trivial gestures of 'goodness': charity -- good: generosity -- good: smiles a lot -- good: . In fact, we do a lot of 'wrong' things, often excused by the idea of 'human primacy'.
What is wrong is not the idea of karma per se, but more our concept of right and wrong.
I'm of the same mind. Such gestures had another purpose that's nothing to do with divine or psychological rewards for being "good" or "charitable".
i think when someone has been served a wrong and a similar fate is delivered upon their wrong`un by hand unknown it tends to stick in the mind and so [the general] we make a connection.
Karma is a Hindu and Buddhist concept and involves reincarnation. For example: damage done to ones psychic body in one lifetime becomes manifest in the body as some corresponding vulnerability in the next.
Yes and if people don't believe in reincarnation they can't believe in Karma.
We created our happiness and our misery in any lifetime which Karma wants us to experience and learn from, hopefully facilitating spiritual growth. It's not what humans perceive as revenge punishment and in this lifetime for actions in this lifetime.
Yep. A couple of little shithouses who lived on our street who were giving my daughter a hard time for months and being a pain generally.
2 families, one couple split up after the husband was cheating and the kids are now living with their mum elsewhere in rented accommodation after living in a massive house in a nice area.
The other moved into a house that is tiny compared to the one they left.
Yep. A couple of little shithouses who lived on our street who were giving my daughter a hard time for months and being a pain generally.
2 families, one couple split up after the husband was cheating and the kids are now living with their mum elsewhere in rented accommodation after living in a massive house in a nice area.
The other moved into a house that is tiny compared to the one they left.
So yes in this case .
So what did your daughter do to deserve this treatment from them?
I'd say it could be the most liberating thought - if for instance you'd studied Atisha's mind training and were putting that into practice.
And it could be exactly what Belly thinks .... if you just take it out of context.
I think I am learning that any concepts of spirituality that appear to contradict all ideas of 'decent' human understanding, such as non-victim blaming, are always explained away by complex spiritual explanations that the average person has difficulty grasping.
How can that be right ?
I am rather of the mind that acceptance of suffering as way of learning, is the cause of some terrible things. I am particularly thinking of the caste system in India that persists and is tolerated because of notions such as Karma. I would be for revolution rather than acceptance of such a divisive system.
I'd say it could be the most liberating thought - if for instance you'd studied Atisha's mind training and were putting that into practice.
And it could be exactly what Belly thinks .... if you just take it out of context.
I actually speak from direct personal experience, when I say:
"The most liberating thought is the idea that I have done something to deserve all I suffer."
It is an idea that transcends some human and cultural norms of 'acceptability' or 'decency'. i.e it cannot be scrutinized or 'analyzed' within those norms.
Some form of transcendence is necessary in spirituality.
If you hew to human norms of 'goodness', 'decency' and 'sociability' then you are pursuing the travails and obfuscation that come with those norms. If you ask yourself why you really place value in human norms, the answer is rather Darwinian in nature, and not 'spiritual'.
I actually speak from direct personal experience, when I say:
"The most liberating thought is the idea that I have done something to deserve all I suffer."
It is an idea that transcends some human and cultural norms of 'acceptability' or 'decency'. i.e it cannot be scrutinized or 'analyzed' within those norms.
Some form of transcendence is necessary in spirituality.
If you hew to human norms of 'goodness', 'decency' and 'sociability' then you are pursuing the travails and obfuscation that come with those norms. If you ask yourself why you really place value in human norms, the answer is rather Darwinian in nature, and not 'spiritual'.
I would suggest that cognitive dissonance is an effective way of acceptance of suffering .
Is it as easy for you to transcend the suffering of others as it is for your own misfortunes ?
I would suggest that cognitive dissonance is an effective way of acceptance of suffering .
Is it as easy for you to transcend the suffering of others as it is for your own misfortunes ?
I don't know what "transcend the suffering of others" means.
I think I am learning that any concepts of spirituality that appear to contradict all ideas of 'decent' human understanding, such as non-victim blaming, are always explained away by complex spiritual explanations that the average person has difficulty grasping.
How can that be right ?
I am rather of the mind that acceptance of suffering as way of learning, is the cause of some terrible things. I am particularly thinking of the caste system in India that persists and is tolerated because of notions such as Karma. I would be for revolution rather than acceptance of such a divisive system.
I can see the picture you are painting. I can only say I take a different view.
What you describe as 'explaining away' I just see as widening the discussion. My received understanding of Karma is different to yours. I can't help that.
On the particular issue of the Caste system. Karma is not intended to be interpreted as unalterable destiny - it teaches that your actions have consequences - so the actions you do now will change your future.
I actually speak from direct personal experience, when I say:
"The most liberating thought is the idea that I have done something to deserve all I suffer."
It is an idea that transcends some human and cultural norms of 'acceptability' or 'decency'. i.e it cannot be scrutinized or 'analyzed' within those norms.
Some form of transcendence is necessary in spirituality.
If you hew to human norms of 'goodness', 'decency' and 'sociability' then you are pursuing the travails and obfuscation that come with those norms. If you ask yourself why you really place value in human norms, the answer is rather Darwinian in nature, and not 'spiritual'.
I actually speak from direct personal experience, when I say:
"The most liberating thought is the idea that I have done something to deserve all I suffer."
It is an idea that transcends some human and cultural norms of 'acceptability' or 'decency'. i.e it cannot be scrutinized or 'analyzed' within those norms.
Some form of transcendence is necessary in spirituality.
If you hew to human norms of 'goodness', 'decency' and 'sociability' then you are pursuing the travails and obfuscation that come with those norms. If you ask yourself why you really place value in human norms, the answer is rather Darwinian in nature, and not 'spiritual'.
I have done bugger all to deserve most of the shit that has come my way over the decades so I don't agree with you there - and that idea is certainly not very 'liberating' either.
I can see the picture you are painting. I can only say I take a different view.
What you describe as 'explaining away' I just see as widening the discussion. My received understanding of Karma is different to yours. I can't help that.
On the particular issue of the Caste system. Karma is not intended to be interpreted as unalterable destiny - it teaches that your actions have consequences - so the actions you do now will change your future.
What actions can a starving , dying child carry out which will change their future ?
What actions can a starving , dying child carry out which will change their future ?
Involves re-incarnation and parent selection.
Reminds me of a program I saw about the Tibetan book of the Dead. It works in a mental/spiritual universe where bodies don't absolutely exist but just looks very wrong in a material one and enables one to counter with a strong emotional argument.
I would suggest that cognitive dissonance is an effective way of acceptance of suffering .
Is it as easy for you to transcend the suffering of others as it is for your own misfortunes ?
For there to be cognitive dissonance there would have to be inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes rather than paradoxical ones. ;-)
Comments
Humans are very narcissistic. We gloss over our 'wrongs' and we can get conditioned into believing in simplified, superficial and trivial gestures of 'goodness': charity -- good: generosity -- good: smiles a lot -- good: . In fact, we do a lot of 'wrong' things, often excused by the idea of 'human primacy'.
What is wrong is not the idea of karma per se, but more our concept of right and wrong.
I'm of the same mind. Such gestures had another purpose that's nothing to do with divine or psychological rewards for being "good" or "charitable".
before that we are just in waiting
Yes and if people don't believe in reincarnation they can't believe in Karma.
We created our happiness and our misery in any lifetime which Karma wants us to experience and learn from, hopefully facilitating spiritual growth. It's not what humans perceive as revenge punishment and in this lifetime for actions in this lifetime.
2 families, one couple split up after the husband was cheating and the kids are now living with their mum elsewhere in rented accommodation after living in a massive house in a nice area.
The other moved into a house that is tiny compared to the one they left.
So yes in this case .
So what did your daughter do to deserve this treatment from them?
Nothing they were just a couple of bullies. I think the girl was jealous of her tbh and the lad was just a scrote.
Great way to encourage a victim blaming ethos.
Karma is something that happens to other people to protect good-people-likus..
Reading through, It seems that Karma is either an ethereal vigilante or a tool of learning through suffering..a bit like corporal punishment.
No.
"The most liberating thought is the idea that I have done something to deserve all I suffer."
Is a great way to not to have a victim ethos, and to know that you are in 'control' of your 'destiny'.
(The English language is so far from what it entails that I find myself putting a heap of things in inverted commas.)
Yup..it's my own fault not the perpetrator.
I'd say it could be the most liberating thought - if for instance you'd studied Atisha's mind training and were putting that into practice.
And it could be exactly what Belly thinks .... if you just take it out of context.
I think I am learning that any concepts of spirituality that appear to contradict all ideas of 'decent' human understanding, such as non-victim blaming, are always explained away by complex spiritual explanations that the average person has difficulty grasping.
How can that be right ?
I am rather of the mind that acceptance of suffering as way of learning, is the cause of some terrible things. I am particularly thinking of the caste system in India that persists and is tolerated because of notions such as Karma. I would be for revolution rather than acceptance of such a divisive system.
I actually speak from direct personal experience, when I say:
"The most liberating thought is the idea that I have done something to deserve all I suffer."
It is an idea that transcends some human and cultural norms of 'acceptability' or 'decency'. i.e it cannot be scrutinized or 'analyzed' within those norms.
Some form of transcendence is necessary in spirituality.
If you hew to human norms of 'goodness', 'decency' and 'sociability' then you are pursuing the travails and obfuscation that come with those norms. If you ask yourself why you really place value in human norms, the answer is rather Darwinian in nature, and not 'spiritual'.
I would suggest that cognitive dissonance is an effective way of acceptance of suffering .
Is it as easy for you to transcend the suffering of others as it is for your own misfortunes ?
I don't know what "transcend the suffering of others" means.
I don't put suffering down to 'chance'.
I can see the picture you are painting. I can only say I take a different view.
What you describe as 'explaining away' I just see as widening the discussion. My received understanding of Karma is different to yours. I can't help that.
On the particular issue of the Caste system. Karma is not intended to be interpreted as unalterable destiny - it teaches that your actions have consequences - so the actions you do now will change your future.
I'm afraid that's all a bit flowery for me.
No need to be afraid.
I have done bugger all to deserve most of the shit that has come my way over the decades so I don't agree with you there - and that idea is certainly not very 'liberating' either.
What actions can a starving , dying child carry out which will change their future ?
Involves re-incarnation and parent selection.
Reminds me of a program I saw about the Tibetan book of the Dead. It works in a mental/spiritual universe where bodies don't absolutely exist but just looks very wrong in a material one and enables one to counter with a strong emotional argument.
For there to be cognitive dissonance there would have to be inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes rather than paradoxical ones. ;-)