Madeleine:The Last Hope ? BBC1 25/4/12

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  • SuperSal1SuperSal1 Posts: 853
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    Penelope, if you find this thread so vile, why do you keep coming back to it? As you've said, you're in a minority and you'll not change any minds by merely insulting people.

    Haven't you got some ironing to do?
  • penelopesimpsonpenelopesimpson Posts: 14,907
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    For you strong moral fibre equates to earrings and highlights in a crisis; for others it's putting your children first, whether it's providing them with a babysitter, answering police questions or participating in a reconstruction of the events that led to a disappearance.

    Oh, come on, you are more intelligent than that. It's how you cope with crisis that matters. And I'm certain you know that is exactly what I was saying. Falling apart is easy. As is casting aspersions
  • penelopesimpsonpenelopesimpson Posts: 14,907
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    Cressida wrote: »
    As with kids in any situation, sometimes things can go wrong. How could anyone asked by a child not to be left again then go out and leave them …. the mere possibility they might wake up and look for you, or have an accident or cry or scream the place down or come outside looking for you would not make it worth it even if they had felt it had been worth it each evening previously. A fretful child who couldn’t find her parents in an unfamiliar apartment might go outside looking for them and be subjected to any number of hazards but these parents know she was abducted. How do they know?

    Without finding a body or a live child or there being a confession from anyone it is understandable the parents don’t agree with what was thrown up by the investigation although and there would be no discussion if the child had disappeared had been found.

    The fact remains it’s still not known what did happen or what the ultimate truth of Maddie’s disappearance was regardless of who has been involved in the case and repeatedly saying it is an abduction is possible but why must it be the only possibility.

    Agree with every word you say. Beggars belief to me why they left her. This is fact which I accept. It does not mean they organised her disappearance.
  • penelopesimpsonpenelopesimpson Posts: 14,907
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    SuperSal1 wrote: »
    Penelope, if you find this thread so vile, why do you keep coming back to it? As you've said, you're in a minority and you'll not change any minds by merely insulting people.

    Haven't you got some ironing to do?

    I have actually, quite a load. I don't enjoy this thread - it is enormously depressing to see how many people are capable of thinking so badly about others simply because they don't like them. But occasionally I will post because it's one small thing I can do to show my support for the McCanns. I have no interest in trying to change anybody's opinions which are clearly the product of a certain mindset.
  • penelopesimpsonpenelopesimpson Posts: 14,907
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    fifilapew wrote: »
    A kangaroo court no, a court of law for negligence yes, I think, as an example to all the other parents who so happily continue to leave their children unattended.

    Don't forget, its Madeleine who has/is paying the price for their negligence. Always Madeleine. I have the utmost sympathy for someone that loses a child but if that loss could have easily been prevented by me then I would expect to punished.

    I could leave my kids for 5 minutes to go to the shop at the end of the road, if I came back and one of them had disappeared what wou,d happen to me?

    And you honestly think they aren't being punished? Do you really think a public lynching or whipping would help?
  • Abbasolutely 40Abbasolutely 40 Posts: 15,589
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    I have actually, quite a load. I don't enjoy this thread - it is enormously depressing to see how many people are capable of thinking so badly about others simply because they don't like them. But occasionally I will post because it's one small thing I can do to show my support for the McCanns. I have no interest in trying to change anybody's opinions which are clearly the product of a certain mindset.

    Actually you are I feel coming back to antagonise posters, using abusive language to new posters, calling people vile from day one and being aggressive .
    You either are doing on purpose to bait and goad to get the thread closed or a poster banned .

    Or it may be more simple and that you have a dissagreeable nature .
    Either way I personally will have no more to say or in fact read your posts as they are simply a repeat of your flinging insults at anyone who dares to criticise the Mc Canns and you are doing them no favours at all .

    if you had a point and made it with an intelligent , well thought out way you would have gained for more than flinging insults
    You are courting a report now for a while .
  • penelopesimpsonpenelopesimpson Posts: 14,907
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    primer wrote: »
    oh purlease. he's openly stated he believes the parents dunnit. he's harrassed and persecuted them.

    whatever you think of them its not the job of internet vigilantes to pursue the case.

    Well, you could have fooled me. That is what this whole thread is about - with the noble exception of a few gallant posters interested in FACTS. The list of reasons for their guilt is endless:

    they were pissed
    they were middle class
    Kate wears co-ordinated clothes
    Kate has dyed hair
    Gerry is a wife terrorising control freak
    Gerry makes notes
    Both McCanns hold it together rather than falling apart
    They couldn't pay their mortgage
    They are now commiting fraud with the Find Maleleine money
    They used the creche too much
    Kate went for a jog
    They get upset with people who wrongly accuse them
    They are professional people
    They drugged their children to make them sleep

    ...do carry on, I can add to the list

    It's just great that nobody who posts on this thread has ever been or done any of those things, let alone left their children alone.
  • penelopesimpsonpenelopesimpson Posts: 14,907
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    Actually you are I feel coming back to antagonise posters, using abusive language to new posters, calling people vile from day one and being aggressive .
    You either are doing on purpose to bait and goad to get the thread closed or a poster banned .

    Or it may be more simple and that you have a dissagreeable nature .
    Either way I personally will have no more to say or in fact read your posts as they are simply a repeat of your flinging insults at anyone who dares to criticise the Mc Canns and you are doing them no favours at all .

    if you had a point and made it with an intelligent , well thought out way you would have gained for more than flinging insults
    You are courting a report now for a while .

    I have called it how I see it. I have never insulted anyone, only their posts, despite not being shown the same courtesy. Your post is hardly courteous! I am sorry I cannot join in with the mass hanging mob, but there it is. Britain's used to stand up for what they thought, not climb on sensationalist bandwagons.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3
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    Such delicate flowers, the McCann supporters. Always 'disgusted', 'shocked' and 'dismayed' by 'vile' or 'sickening' doubters.

    Seem to dish it out quite the thing with no problems though...

    I hope you shielded your eyes from Kate McCann's '****ing tossers' line in her book penelopesimpson. It was just her Great British Spirit.
  • penelopesimpsonpenelopesimpson Posts: 14,907
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    The slave wrote: »
    My goodness! You are so far up on your high horse you're in danger of not getting enough oxygen.
    Strong moral fibre.Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd see written in the same sentence as Kate McCann.
    Enough said.

    What is wrong with referring to strong moral fibre? It's a quality I admire immensely.
  • SuperSal1SuperSal1 Posts: 853
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    Penelope

    Bereaved parents suffer every day of their lives: I completely agree with that. But, Kate and Gerry:

    1. Still have a fantastic 'quality' of living if you consider they still live in a luxury 4 bedroom house - no financial suffering (why not sell up and use funds to aid search?)
    2. Made a PACKET out of Kate's book, so are probably much better off than before
    3. Have friends in high places: celebs, politicians etc
    4. Are praised and sympathised with in every national newspaper
    5. Gerry still has a high level job in the NHS (I would have sacked him for lack of judgement and bringing his profession into disrepute)
    6. Have 2 children who are still with them though others in the same situation would have had theirs put into foster care...

    I could go on.

    Again, I have UTMOST sympathy with bereaved parents. It makes me cry to think of losing any of my three - and know it would change my life forever.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 336
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    I have actually, quite a load. I don't enjoy this thread - it is enormously depressing to see how many people are capable of thinking so badly about others simply because they don't like them. But occasionally I will post because it's one small thing I can do to show my support for the McCanns. I have no interest in trying to change anybody's opinions which are clearly the product of a certain mindset.

    You don't like the thread but will occasionally post - yet you are actually the poster with the most posts in the thread :confused:
  • penelopesimpsonpenelopesimpson Posts: 14,907
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    You don't like the thread but will occasionally post - yet you are actually the poster with the most posts in the thread :confused:

    Oh, thanks for that! But as it's me against the baying mob I suppose I have gone a bit OTT. Sorry.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 336
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    Oh, thanks for that! But as it's me against the baying mob I suppose I have gone a bit OTT. Sorry.

    Ready, this thread isn't a baying mob at all.

    If you lurked while DS was allowing the older threads to run a I say lurked because your join date is too late to have taken part - you will know this is nothing at all.
  • The SwampsterThe Swampster Posts: 8,384
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    And you honestly think they aren't being punished? Do you really think a public lynching or whipping would help?
    I have called it how I see it. I have never insulted anyone, only their posts, despite not being shown the same courtesy. Your post is hardly courteous! I am sorry I cannot join in with the mass hanging mob, but there it is. Britain's used to stand up for what they thought, not climb on sensationalist bandwagons.
    Oh, thanks for that! But as it's me against the baying mob I suppose I have gone a bit OTT. Sorry.

    I have yet to see anyone call for a public whipping or lynching. Yet many of those supporting the McCanns tend to resort to hyperbole because in the face of members of the public's many very reasonable concerns (Why won't they cooperate with the police?; Why won't they agree to a reconstruction? Why did those specialist UK police sniffer dogs alert to cadaver and blood in the McCanns' holiday flat?; Why did the witness in Praia da Luz who was NOT a member of the McCann's own holiday party think that the man that he saw carrying a small, unconscious blonde girl was actually Gerry McCann himself?) that is all they have.

    I wish instead that they would suggest a rational explanation for some of these nagging questions. Especially for why those two expert British dogs, which have been instrumental in putting many wrongdoers behind bars, should both have repeatedly alerted to the presence of cadaver and blood in both the McCann flat and car, but not once in the flats of their friends nor in the home or garden of Robert Murat - who was the only arguido at the time.

    The public is entitled to ask questions about this case: in very difficult times, our PM has just spent £2million - at the behest of Rupert Murdoch and Kate McCann - on a "review" that has so far offered us the useful insight that Madeleine may be either dead or alive.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 105
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    allie4 wrote: »
    I completely agree with all your sensible and perceptive posts!
    It baffles me that anyone can take Amaral too seriously ... even more that there are so many on here who rush to judgement and take the moral high ground.
    So many parents in that resort left their kids at night - it's a tragic mistake but a genuinely mistaken belief that it was a 'safe' area.
    I have a friend who lives in Portugal and she says that the local police are well known as inept and incompetent and many kids go missing every year in that part of Portugal... only of course they don't publicise the fact. If that had been known, no way would the McCanns and their friends - along with other resort guests - have ever left their children alone.
    If some of these posters read Kate McCann's book, they might understand better how Kate and Gerry are paying for this tragic error of judgement and the knowledge that they let their daughter down for the rest of their lives. Their torment is only worsened by their feelings of guilt that they had ever left her in the room with the twins.

    If it is common knowledge that (quote) "....many kids go missing every year in that part of Portugal...." then it is publicised in some form or your friend would not know about it surely!
  • sofieellissofieellis Posts: 10,327
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    Has anyone read Pat Brown's book on the subject? I must admit, although I've seen her name a few times on these threads, I've never read her blog before today and don't know much about her. I've read Amaral's book and found it very interesting. I also intend reading Kate's book at some point.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 383
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    Penelope,
    You are of course entitled to your opinion and say as much as the next person. However, please can you say why you are so sure that the McCann's aren't lying and yet seem to be sure that the Portugese ex-policeman is? From what I have read in this thread most people are putting across their personal thoughts on the case and asking questions about things that don't quite make sense to them.
    The Portugese police were people called to do their job. They had no history with the people involved (as far as I know). Do you really think the guy in charge went in and thought, I know, I'll mess up the investigation, make the McCanns people of interest just to turn everyone against them, and then go on to make loads of money from a book I can write on the case?

    I am not trying to insult you, or goad you, or insult the McCanns. They are parents who have lost a daughter and no one would wish that on anyone. This case though has too many questions hanging over it, and I don't understand the McCann's reluctance to try and clear them up. Of course, if they had nothing to do with it at all (and I don't actually think they have) then they have an advantage over everyone else because they know that to be fact. But if they could just put their own indignations aside, stop taking legal action against anyone who dares question them, and open up a bit, then that may well be of benefit to the search for their daughter. Wouldn't most people, especially after letting her down by leaving her on her own and therefore allowing this to happen, do anything to try and appease that guilt? However, going by their selfish actions prior to whatever happened, perhaps it isn't so surprising.

    But please stop attacking anyone who doesn't agree with your thoughts. We are all different with different thoughts and feelings and views on the world.
  • GracelandGraceland Posts: 8,158
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    Cressida wrote: »
    Which is why anyone who has kids breathes a sigh of relief when your kids reach an age when they are old enough to be left to their own devices but still as a parent you shadow their life, whatever their age.

    Thats very true.
  • IdacyderIdacyder Posts: 852
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    Penny Simpson - No one has a problem with who you give your support to I`m sure - its what forums are for and its what democracy is all about. Its really just your manner and the words you use tend to incite aggression. Surely you can see that.

    One`s point can be put across politely. And I know its not just you.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 799
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    allie4 wrote: »
    So many parents in that resort left their kids at night - it's a tragic mistake but a genuinely mistaken belief that it was a 'safe' area.

    The “area” makes absolutely zero difference. There are enough hazards inside any property (unsupervised children can fall, ingest things they shouldn’t, cut themselves on sharp objects, etc. nevermind the everyday risk of fires, etc.) for it to be common sense that you don’t simply leave such a young child alone in a property while you go out for drinks. No one was nearby enough to so much as hear a scream/cry in case of emergency. On top of that, they didn’t lock the door, so there was the added risk of Maddie wandering outside, and the infinite hazards that posed (“safe area” or not! Even the swimming pool being nearby is dangerous – any little child can slip and drown if they aren’t being watched).

    The McCanns are both doctors who, if anything, should have a heightened sense of risk. There’s zero excuse for what they did.
    allie4 wrote: »
    If some of these posters read Kate McCann's book, they might understand better how Kate and Gerry are paying for this tragic error of judgement and the knowledge that they let their daughter down for the rest of their lives. Their torment is only worsened by their feelings of guilt that they had ever left her in the room with the twins.
    I do not wish to spend my money to read these words. The McCann’s should have publicly acknowledged/taken responsibility for the part their own behaviour played in Maddie’s disappearance, because that is one pretty sure way to prevent this from happening to other people's children. Quoting my post from earlier:
    ciaociao wrote: »
    I believe the McCanns should have publicly acknowledged (at least once) the inherent dangers of leaving children unattended, and that although child abduction is a risk, leaving a child unattended can result in serious harm anyway.

    If you dance in the middle of street traffic four times a week and get hit by a car, do you campaign about the dangers of traffic, or do you campaign about pedestrian road safety? I think that the answer is both.

    I have empathy for anyone who has lost a child, and I don’t doubt that they suffer “torment” and “guilt”, but to be honest, I feel the McCann’s are actually pretty lucky to have somehow avoided the additional torment of being charged with neglect and/or losing custody of their twins.
  • MadMoo40MadMoo40 Posts: 1,848
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    One thing that I always wondered was why non of the other Tapas 7 came under any suspicion given that at least a couple of them had been round checking on all the kids? Could one of them, maybe one of the men have done something, she woke up, was killed to stop her talking and then hidden somewhere till she could be disposed of? I don't know the ins and outs of the case so don't know if they've been eliminated on other grounds and I'm way off track!

    Now that is a very good point. Especially as we know from Kate's evidence, that they didn't actually look into the rooms to check the children. They could have been listening at the door of a room which hadn't contained Maddie for hours..... perhaps from just after the very first check.
  • The slaveThe slave Posts: 9
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    Losing a child is the very worst thing that can happen to a person. It physically HURTS, you can't breathe for the agony of it. I was on MY knees begging the doctor and God to please make him breathe again. I prayed with every fibre of my being from my very soul. Nothing changed the fact that he had gone. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy if I had one.
    It altered me forever.
    To label my thoughts as 'vile' without knowing the slightest thing about me or my life experience is sheer nastiness.
    You accuse us of being nasty people.
    Where on Earth is your justification for this?
    I'm not in the least ashamed of doubting the McCann story.
    I don't need your permission, Penelope.
    I'm not an idiot.
    I have a degree
    I love my children and grand children more than myself.
    I pity you , Penelope. You don't seem such a nice person yourself.
    Apologies if this offends.
  • Special K_Special K_ Posts: 6,320
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    The irony on this page is busting out from all corners.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,510
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    queenie wrote: »
    Every minute seemed like an hour, yet they waited EIGHT HOURS before going out to look for their abducted daughter.

    Ive been to Portugal (ok maybe not quite that place) and in my experience in a holiday report there are late night cafes pubs and shops, I would have scoured them to find some info
    But then hindsights a wonderful thing
    And in the first place I wouldnt have left my kids in an apartment while I went OUT ON THE LASH!!!!
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