What a lot of people forget to realise is that a lot of Doctors also have their snouts in the trough.
Many Doctors are only part time in the NHS, with the rest of the working week doing "private consultancy work" - expensive private work to private patients or in private Hospitals in order to make more money for themselves.
If a lot of Doctors are that passionate about the NHS and its principles why are they not full time in the NHS, maybe they should give up the private work to be more credible.
What a lot of people forget to realise is that a lot of Doctors also have their snouts in the trough.
Many Doctors are only part time in the NHS, with the rest of the working week doing "private consultancy work" - expensive private work to private patients or in private Hospitals in order to make more money for themselves.
If a lot of Doctors are that passionate about the NHS and its principles why are they not full time in the NHS, maybe they should give up the private work to be more credible.
What about the retired Doctor's and consultants? given that most of the challenges will be from folks with time to spare. From the article:
Jenny Bywaters, a retired consultant in public health
Career MP's have blighted the Commons. Too many people wanting to lead the country yet their experience of everything is what they have read. I would encourage more people with experience in the NHS, forces etc. However, 250 doctors really ?? There would be a severe cut in wages for most. Last year there was a GP who earned £300,000. I know he is not typical but he is not alone and I see how my local GPs, excellent that they are, work vastly reduced hours to years ago. I would be surprised how many of the 250 actually stand. I presume they will not all be near retirement. I find it slightly odd that some people spend years building a career that only a few years in they quit. I like the occasional indepedent but this is not the way. I use the NHS as it is and world leading the best may be, there are some parts which I can not believe were not changed decades ago. The NHS is often portrayed as being a fiscal problem. It is true that the internal inflation rate of the NHS has been hugely ahead of the national rate with sums no one can afford but there are many things that are not big, are low cost but still make a difference. In France, there are many areas where waiting lists are almost unknown. There are other ways.
Edit: A side issue - I think the Liberal Democrats will be in big trouble at the next election. I do see some independents beating them. Losing the trust of the people who voted them in such a blatant way is fatal.
What about the retired Doctor's and consultants? given that most of the challenges will be from folks with time to spare. From the article:
So you are ok with her standing then?
I am just saying that Doctors are not as holy than thou as they make out.
Where were their objections when inflation busting pay rises were being given out left right and centre during the Labour years - surely they would of realised that these pay rises they were being given had to come out of a limited pot of NHS money.
I am just saying that Doctors are not as holy than thou as they make out.
Where were their objections when inflation busting pay rises were being given out left right and centre during the Labour years - surely they would of realised that these pay rises they were being given had to come out of a limited pot of NHS money.
NHS staff were undervalued in challenging circumstances so did have a very strong case. Huge overspending, capital overinvestment, bankers, endless fiscal chaos etc have left us in such a state that pay rises are a problem. Now we see a huge payroll, and more problematic are the pensions of the increased wages which we are not controlling. I do feel for everyone on low pensions, I face the problem too. However, we have to fund these ourselves and the solutions (working longer or paying more) are difficult for any of us to face. The doctors policies on pensions should be very interesting considering theirs are, proportionally, large.
Well this Government will have to hope this works otherwise if these doctors go through with it Lib Dem and Tory MP's could possibly be in for a real roasting come the next GE
I wonder if it is too late for one of them to stand in the Mayoral elections.
Good luck to them, I hope every one is elected.
I find it curious that people want elected candidates of which they have no knowledge other than their day job. What is their politics ? What policies ? Their views might be anything. The most fascist views I've heard this year was when two healthcare professionals discussed a group of patients in front of me.... racism, homophobia and anti-semitism along with my prescription.
If there are large numbers of doctors going to stand, I hope they stand scrutiny like anyone else. I wonder how many of the doctors will maintain large, profitable private practises when they are MPs ?
I find it curious that people want elected candidates of which they have no knowledge other than their day job. What is their politics ? What policies ? Their views might be anything. The most fascist views I've heard this year was when two healthcare professionals discussed a group of patients in front of me.... racism, homophobia and anti-semitism along with my prescription.
If there are large numbers of doctors going to stand, I hope they stand scrutiny like anyone else. I wonder how many of the doctors will maintain large, profitable private practises when they are MPs ?[/QUOTE]
Isn't that what they are arguing against, no more privatisation of the NHS? If they are elected they will probably have to give up their day job. When politicians give up the right of politicians to have private interests in private healthcare companies, like Lansley and Milburn etc who already have interests in private healthcare companies, then hese doctors wouldn't be able to have an interest either, would they?
Depends what doctor you call though doesn't it. If all the doctors there are at the moment were forced to compete with each other for business, they wouldn't be earning £100,000 a year, or anything like it.
Our doctors/surgeons/consultants etc earn that but the ones who work in the private sector that amount would probably be a months salary.
When the taxman gave the medical profession an amnesty there was one doctor who paid a million pounds in tax that he had not declared, just to give you an idea of what they earn in the private sector. The vast majority of doctors and GPs etc do not work in the private sector. If the NHS were privatised then doctors will be earning a few hundred thousand, they will be far better off than they are now.
I find it curious that people want elected candidates of which they have no knowledge other than their day job. What is their politics ? What policies ? Their views might be anything. The most fascist views I've heard this year was when two healthcare professionals discussed a group of patients in front of me.... racism, homophobia and anti-semitism along with my prescription.
If there are large numbers of doctors going to stand, I hope they stand scrutiny like anyone else. I wonder how many of the doctors will maintain large, profitable private practises when they are MPs ?[/QUOTE]
Isn't that what they are arguing against, no more privatisation of the NHS? If they are elected they will probably have to give up their day job. When politicians give up the right of politicians to have private interests in private healthcare companies, like Lansley and Milburn etc who already have interests in private healthcare companies, then hese doctors wouldn't be able to have an interest either, would they?
If they do give up vested interests, some of the doctors may struggle on an MP's relatively lowly earnings. It all sounds a bit utopian. There is a lot more needed to being an MP than a single issue. I'm not convinced by the way the current possible changes are panning out but the alternatives look worse. Staying as we are is not an option. Plenty of funding is needed just to plug the holes of the last few governments, something like PFI is costing us a fortune on previous minister's inadequacies. The French system is one of the most highly rated overseas and they have solved many of the problems sinking us. It's not perfect but no waiting times and a better system is attractive. However, half their system is privately funded and some people do not want that on principle. If the person in front paid, I do not care, I just want lesser waiting times.
What a disgusting comment; GPs save lives every day of every year. Get back under your bridge.
Think paramedics save even more lives though.Their salaries were between £21,000 & £34,000 (team leader) in 2010 - do they get the respect that GP's get :rolleyes:.Think GP's have far too much respect, too much influence over the Health Service (handing over 80% over the National Health Service budget in England won't help either) & are over-paid - not saying alot of GP's don't deserve respect.Think this GP's standing for parliament thing is more about exerting their power, rather than about principles though (although there is an element of that as well).GP's are more politically savvy (and self serving) than most people realise.Remember GP's were, generally, against the formation of the National Health service to begin with (long time ago, I know).
I doubt some MPs give a flying rat's ass about their voters, anyway, and their only aim is to get their feet under the table and their snouts in the trough on that Westminster gravy train.
Ugh... Im sure most MP's could earn more in the private sector, expecially most of the tory cabinet who the northerners on here love to bash.... who would want to be an MP when you have to deal with insults like this and a print media that jumps down there throats everytime they voice an opinion.
You're half right, they serve their parties who in turn serve big business. Anyone who truly believes that MP's serve the people deserve to be laughed off the internet.
30-odd years ago you would of been partially correct though, old school MP's probably did care about their constituents rather than their financiers. but since the trendy, yuppie style politiburo's slimed their way into politics throughout the 80's you know the likes of Blair, Mandelson, Hague etc, it's never been the same.
Ooops. Spoke too soon. It seems I'm more cynical than tysonstorm.
The rot was well and truly systemic by the time Blair et al marched to power backed by high rolloing financiers.
I think you can see the almost total betrayal of the public interests as far back as when Heath "won" the Charlemagne Bribe for "furthering the unity of Europe" by, in effect, surrendering the legacy of British Sovereignty. At least he didn't have to further European unity in the same manner that Charlemagne used - the sword.
Jenkins won the same bribe for his "principled" resignation over the horrendous notion his party had that the British people should have a say on the issue of EEC membership.
Indeed, they seem to have much more of a clue then the career politicians.
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.
Career MP's have blighted the Commons. Too many people wanting to lead the country yet their experience of everything is what they have read. I would encourage more people with experience in the NHS, forces etc. However, 250 doctors really ?? There would be a severe cut in wages for most. Last year there was a GP who earned £300,000. I know he is not typical but he is not alone and I see how my local GPs, excellent that they are, work vastly reduced hours to years ago. I would be surprised how many of the 250 actually stand. I presume they will not all be near retirement. I find it slightly odd that some people spend years building a career that only a few years in they quit. I like the occasional indepedent but this is not the way. I use the NHS as it is and world leading the best may be, there are some parts which I can not believe were not changed decades ago. The NHS is often portrayed as being a fiscal problem. It is true that the internal inflation rate of the NHS has been hugely ahead of the national rate with sums no one can afford but there are many things that are not big, are low cost but still make a difference. In France, there are many areas where waiting lists are almost unknown. There are other ways.
Edit: A side issue - I think the Liberal Democrats will be in big trouble at the next election. I do see some independents beating them. Losing the trust of the people who voted them in such a blatant way is fatal.
That is a very valid point, Bluemotel. For example, the career path is too often school -> university -> MP's assistant/ministerial aide -> MP and can produce a narrow and out of touch outlook and that can ultimately lead to bad policies because such MPs have had no experience in the private, public or charitable sectors and that is regrettable.
I would welcome more MPs with backgrounds like the three MPs I mentioned above. Such MPs with that life experience do tend to be independent-minded and as such they are regrettably not invited to become ministers because the government of the day wants poodles and not talent.
This would have been possible if we had AV, but since the public have rejected it, these doctors have no chance of winning seats with FPTP.
Ah but, Soppyfan, independents can, and have been elected under first past the post system. For example, Dr Richard Taylor served as the twice-elected independent Member of Parliament for Wyre Forest between 2001 and 2010. I expect that many voters are brassed off with the complete horlicks of New Labour/Tories/Lib Dems and that they would be willing to vote for a capable independent candidate and I know that I would!
Comments
I doubt if it will go very far. I wouldn't imagine that many doctors would be willing to take a pay cut
Many Doctors are only part time in the NHS, with the rest of the working week doing "private consultancy work" - expensive private work to private patients or in private Hospitals in order to make more money for themselves.
If a lot of Doctors are that passionate about the NHS and its principles why are they not full time in the NHS, maybe they should give up the private work to be more credible.
That's true. This must be why there are so many independent MPs in Britain.
Remind me now, how many are there exactly?
There's the Speaker!
What about the retired Doctor's and consultants? given that most of the challenges will be from folks with time to spare. From the article:
So you are ok with her standing then?
Edit: A side issue - I think the Liberal Democrats will be in big trouble at the next election. I do see some independents beating them. Losing the trust of the people who voted them in such a blatant way is fatal.
I am just saying that Doctors are not as holy than thou as they make out.
Where were their objections when inflation busting pay rises were being given out left right and centre during the Labour years - surely they would of realised that these pay rises they were being given had to come out of a limited pot of NHS money.
NHS staff were undervalued in challenging circumstances so did have a very strong case. Huge overspending, capital overinvestment, bankers, endless fiscal chaos etc have left us in such a state that pay rises are a problem. Now we see a huge payroll, and more problematic are the pensions of the increased wages which we are not controlling. I do feel for everyone on low pensions, I face the problem too. However, we have to fund these ourselves and the solutions (working longer or paying more) are difficult for any of us to face. The doctors policies on pensions should be very interesting considering theirs are, proportionally, large.
My doctor is only passionate between 8am and 6pm Monday to Friday. Those against the proposals think that they will be personally worse off.
They can get struck off for that kind of thing.:D
Good luck to them, I hope every one is elected.
Probably but what a good idea:)
regards jacj
I find it curious that people want elected candidates of which they have no knowledge other than their day job. What is their politics ? What policies ? Their views might be anything. The most fascist views I've heard this year was when two healthcare professionals discussed a group of patients in front of me.... racism, homophobia and anti-semitism along with my prescription.
If there are large numbers of doctors going to stand, I hope they stand scrutiny like anyone else. I wonder how many of the doctors will maintain large, profitable private practises when they are MPs ?
Unless Labour withdraws, it's not inconceivable that it might actually help the government parties, because it would split the anti-government vote.
Our doctors/surgeons/consultants etc earn that but the ones who work in the private sector that amount would probably be a months salary.
When the taxman gave the medical profession an amnesty there was one doctor who paid a million pounds in tax that he had not declared, just to give you an idea of what they earn in the private sector. The vast majority of doctors and GPs etc do not work in the private sector. If the NHS were privatised then doctors will be earning a few hundred thousand, they will be far better off than they are now.
Think paramedics save even more lives though.Their salaries were between £21,000 & £34,000 (team leader) in 2010 - do they get the respect that GP's get :rolleyes:.Think GP's have far too much respect, too much influence over the Health Service (handing over 80% over the National Health Service budget in England won't help either) & are over-paid - not saying alot of GP's don't deserve respect.Think this GP's standing for parliament thing is more about exerting their power, rather than about principles though (although there is an element of that as well).GP's are more politically savvy (and self serving) than most people realise.Remember GP's were, generally, against the formation of the National Health service to begin with (long time ago, I know).
Ugh... Im sure most MP's could earn more in the private sector, expecially most of the tory cabinet who the northerners on here love to bash.... who would want to be an MP when you have to deal with insults like this and a print media that jumps down there throats everytime they voice an opinion.
^ This
Clearly not quite as cynical as myself or tysonstrom.
Ooops. Spoke too soon. It seems I'm more cynical than tysonstorm.
The rot was well and truly systemic by the time Blair et al marched to power backed by high rolloing financiers.
I think you can see the almost total betrayal of the public interests as far back as when Heath "won" the Charlemagne Bribe for "furthering the unity of Europe" by, in effect, surrendering the legacy of British Sovereignty. At least he didn't have to further European unity in the same manner that Charlemagne used - the sword.
Jenkins won the same bribe for his "principled" resignation over the horrendous notion his party had that the British people should have a say on the issue of EEC membership.
Indeed, they seem to have much more of a clue then the career politicians.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.
That is a very valid point, Bluemotel. For example, the career path is too often school -> university -> MP's assistant/ministerial aide -> MP and can produce a narrow and out of touch outlook and that can ultimately lead to bad policies because such MPs have had no experience in the private, public or charitable sectors and that is regrettable.
I am going to cite the example of three Conservative MPs who have had real life experiences:
Dr Sarah Wollaston who was a GP before entering Parliament http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Wollaston;
Rory Stewart OBE who was a diplomat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Stewart;
Colonel Bob Stewart DSO was a British Army officer before he became an MP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Stewart_%28British_Army_officer%29.
I would welcome more MPs with backgrounds like the three MPs I mentioned above. Such MPs with that life experience do tend to be independent-minded and as such they are regrettably not invited to become ministers because the government of the day wants poodles and not talent.
Ah but, Soppyfan, independents can, and have been elected under first past the post system. For example, Dr Richard Taylor served as the twice-elected independent Member of Parliament for Wyre Forest between 2001 and 2010. I expect that many voters are brassed off with the complete horlicks of New Labour/Tories/Lib Dems and that they would be willing to vote for a capable independent candidate and I know that I would!