McCain should learn to keep his trap shut lest he show himself to be no better than Putin.
I think Putin is showing himself to be the far shrewder politician. Pretty much since this conflict started, we've been bombarded with crazy claims and statements from the Ukrainian politicians. For some reason, despite many being, well.. batshit crazy we're supporting them over Russia. Ok, so the EU and US spent millions on trying to create a favorable democracy there so may not want to lose face but ended up with a klepto-thugocracy that's left Ukraine in a much worse mess.
The legal position regarding harm to people is very clear in many justice systems.
You have to show Intention to be guilty of assault or murder or whatever.
But that does not mean you can act willy-nilly where there might be a reasonable expectation of innocents getting hurt.
If you intend to hit someone but accidentally hit the person next to them, or lob a brick without looking you can still be convicted.
(this is the limit of my amateur legal knowledge)
On another point, Malaysian Airways should not be condemned for trying to save fuel and thereby using this route.
The route (height) was declared safe. Why would they take the long way round?
You wouldn't drive from London to Bristol via Southampton, if there were riots in Reading, and the M4 was declared safe, would you?
Perhaps he has a point? So you're a seperatist. You are being bombed and shelled by the Ukrainian army. How would you defend yourself against airstrikes
By firing back at them. I don't see how shooting down passenger planes helps and I don't think you have to be that observant to notice that passenger planes are still using a flight route - especially if your role is monitoring the sky to stop being bombed and shelled. If keeping civilian casualties low is a factor to you that's the kind of thing you should be aware of.
Of course the British speaker is talking partisan nonsense and milking a tragedy.
Of course last night I was told RT is for people with "open minds", and that the BBC is just as biased. Not that I realised the BBC was run by the government's propaganda arm, which RT is, but there you go...
BBC has always been the propaganda tool for Britain and will continue to be. In disasters such as MH17 and so early on it's always going to be difficult to get a wholly balanced and unbiased view and there will always be people who only open their eyes and ears to what they want to hear......even if it's not fact. As long as it suits and sits comfortably with their own political leanings.
The current Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a good example and the other evening on CH4 News, the Israeli Foreign Minister came in for a right old pasting from Jon Snow. Fighting a losing battle the Israeli Minister then accused CH4 of asking questions which had not been previously agreed to, to which a by now furious Snow responded that that accusation was 'totally and categorically untrue' (Snows actual response) and they had the paperwork to prove it.
S'funny how there seems to be this symbiotic relationship between RT and newbie journo's, whereby RT loves hiring westerners and the newbie journo's get some proper experience but it seems like only the most gullible or cynical stick with them in the long term.
Anybody who suggests that outfits like the BBC and CNN are as biased as RT are, frankly, not wired up right.
On another point, Malaysian Airways should not be condemned for trying to save fuel and thereby using this route.
The route (height) was declared safe. Why would they take the long way round
Because it is safer and you value safety more than cost savings. Several other airlines made that choice. It was obviously the right decision to have taken.
3rd July 1988 USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air 655 killing 290 in a case of mistaken identity. It eventually paid compensation but to this day denies responsibility. Sadly accidents happen in war time.
Bigger accidents happen if politicians are allowed to exploit tragedies like this.
I'm glad someone else finally mentioned this. I posted the same yesterday but interestingly it aroused zero response.
Of course.....that was an American missile and virtually all on board were Iranian.
Because it is safer and you value safety more than cost savings. Several other airlines made that choice. It was obviously the right decision to have taken.
The 'safe' height was 24000ft plus a margin of 30% = 32000ft which they were above.
The 'safe' height turned out to be wrong but we only know that with hindsight.
I was questioning why the airline were irresponsible for flying above the published safe height.
Do we? I think Ukraine knew the rebels had BUKs from the Donetsk base on June 29th but didn't want to draw attention to it.
Unfortunately this story just goes to show what happens when East European peasants get their hands on 21st century technology. No-one's remotely interested in their petty little squabbles or their inane yearnings to be part of Russia.
What gets my goat in all this is how the actions of one trigger-happy man can cause such devastation and loss of life. Yes, he would have been given orders by his superiors no doubt to open fire in the first place, but to think that one pitiful excuse of a human being could single-handedly create all this tragedy is itself sickening.
Agreed, how must be feel? I wonder if he feels anything?
Anyone got a possible explanation as to why the passports were not damaged? just seems a bit strange.
What passports? I have seen an image of one passport - have you received confirmation that none of the 290+ passports were damaged? That's amazing - have you got a link?
It's what the entire world now knows as fact. Nothing 'sarcastic' about that.
It's also worth mentioning that despite the US eventually paying $61 million compensation to Iran, they have never admitted responsibility or made and apology to Iran.
Anyone got a possible explanation as to why the passports were not damaged? just seems a bit strange.
They will have been in peoples pockets and bags, and will have fallen out after the explosion, and scattered away from the burning rubble. Not that difficult to get your head around.
It's what the entire world now knows as fact. Nothing 'sarcastic' about that.
It's also worth mentioning that despite the US eventually paying $61 million compensation to Iran, they have never admitted responsibility or made and apology to Iran.
No, I think you were being sarcastic.
Are you still drawing a parallel between the two? Fine if you are but could you explain why you think they're the same when one case was despite best efforts and the other was wanton disregard for life?
Comments
I think Putin is showing himself to be the far shrewder politician. Pretty much since this conflict started, we've been bombarded with crazy claims and statements from the Ukrainian politicians. For some reason, despite many being, well.. batshit crazy we're supporting them over Russia. Ok, so the EU and US spent millions on trying to create a favorable democracy there so may not want to lose face but ended up with a klepto-thugocracy that's left Ukraine in a much worse mess.
You have to show Intention to be guilty of assault or murder or whatever.
But that does not mean you can act willy-nilly where there might be a reasonable expectation of innocents getting hurt.
If you intend to hit someone but accidentally hit the person next to them, or lob a brick without looking you can still be convicted.
(this is the limit of my amateur legal knowledge)
On another point, Malaysian Airways should not be condemned for trying to save fuel and thereby using this route.
The route (height) was declared safe. Why would they take the long way round?
You wouldn't drive from London to Bristol via Southampton, if there were riots in Reading, and the M4 was declared safe, would you?
By firing back at them. I don't see how shooting down passenger planes helps and I don't think you have to be that observant to notice that passenger planes are still using a flight route - especially if your role is monitoring the sky to stop being bombed and shelled. If keeping civilian casualties low is a factor to you that's the kind of thing you should be aware of.
Of course the British speaker is talking partisan nonsense and milking a tragedy.
The current Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a good example and the other evening on CH4 News, the Israeli Foreign Minister came in for a right old pasting from Jon Snow. Fighting a losing battle the Israeli Minister then accused CH4 of asking questions which had not been previously agreed to, to which a by now furious Snow responded that that accusation was 'totally and categorically untrue' (Snows actual response) and they had the paperwork to prove it.
S'funny how there seems to be this symbiotic relationship between RT and newbie journo's, whereby RT loves hiring westerners and the newbie journo's get some proper experience but it seems like only the most gullible or cynical stick with them in the long term.
Anybody who suggests that outfits like the BBC and CNN are as biased as RT are, frankly, not wired up right.
Because it is safer and you value safety more than cost savings. Several other airlines made that choice. It was obviously the right decision to have taken.
Of course.....that was an American missile and virtually all on board were Iranian.
What are you suggesting here, then?
I don't mean now. I mean before yesterday.
I'm assuming you're being sarcastic here. There's an eloquent post here addressing what I believe your point is. Post 346 at 15:30
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/543733-mh17-down-near-donetsk-18.html#post8569156
Agreed, how must be feel? I wonder if he feels anything?
No one is saying it will and that's not the point of it.
They don't weigh much and landed clear of the fire?
What passports? I have seen an image of one passport - have you received confirmation that none of the 290+ passports were damaged? That's amazing - have you got a link?
It's also worth mentioning that despite the US eventually paying $61 million compensation to Iran, they have never admitted responsibility or made and apology to Iran.
Found it..
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mh17+crash+passports&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=mkvJU4CoKLPe7Abf-YA4&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=559#facrc=_&imgrc=xoWGaTMNI4FRYM%253A%3ByVPAIvQWKAXUYM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi.dailymail.co.uk%252Fi%252Fpix%252F2014%252F07%252F17%252Farticle-0-1FBA5A8400000578-479_634x345.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%252Fnews%252Farticle-2696340%252FUp-10-British-23-American-passengers-feared-dead-Malaysian-Airlines-MH17-shot-Ukraine.html%3B634%3B345
They will have been in peoples pockets and bags, and will have fallen out after the explosion, and scattered away from the burning rubble. Not that difficult to get your head around.
No, I think you were being sarcastic.
Are you still drawing a parallel between the two? Fine if you are but could you explain why you think they're the same when one case was despite best efforts and the other was wanton disregard for life?
They fluttered down slowly and away from the fire, When a plane opens up everything inside is sucked out of it, Loose paper would go easiest
The pile off passports did not all land together they were picked out and put in a pile because they WERE'NT damaged and made a good picture