How do the artifacts appear on the original transmission (i.e. before downscaling and recording)?
Since I don't have any HD display my FreeView box downscales via scart. The artefacts are in fact more visible when watching the transmission direct - like today with the royal pageant, where various solid blocks of moving colour were visible on the BBC1 HD (25" CRT). The taped recording of this channel showed this effect to a lesser - but still visible degree.
My VCR has a sharpness control and setting it between the softest and middle setting pretty much gives a natural picture. The sharpening circuit leads to video ringing under certain conditions so I cut it right back. The VCR does have non-defeatable HQ circuitrt though so that may have some bearing.
My VCR has a sharpness control and setting it between the softest and middle setting pretty much gives a natural picture. The sharpening circuit leads to video ringing under certain conditions so I cut it right back. The VCR does have non-defeatable HQ circuitrt though so that may have some bearing.
My understanding is that even the "normal" VHS settings requires the action of a sharpening circuit to avoid the picture looking unpleasantly soft.
I'd assume the softer-than-normal sharpness settings are just reduced action for this circuit rather than any active "softening" per se.
My most recent (el cheapo) video had no way of adjusting the default sharpening, which was set quite high. That was fine on stuff recorded on that machine, but for noise-prone old tapes recorded on a different machine, it increased the visibility of noise and annoyed the hell out of me that there was no way to change it. :mad:
I think DVD can vary a lot, probbaly more so than VHS.
DVD's of cinematic film can look great and push the limits of the technology. DVD's of TV material (especially old stuff) is often just VHS quality (minus a bit of noise) on a plastic disc, to my eyes.
No 'TV' DVD's have impressed me. I still buy them though because I no longer want to own VHS.
while its true that putting a tv show on dvd cant cure problems in the source material, unless a lot of money is spent, some tv shows on pre-recorded dvd are impressive.
my best example is:
Seinfeld Season 4 dvd
..i remember my vhs by mitsubishi had the sharpening control circa mid 90s.
DVD's of TV material (especially old stuff) is often just VHS quality (minus a bit of noise) on a plastic disc, to my eyes.
No 'TV' DVD's have impressed me. I still buy them though because I no longer want to own VHS.
Anything that's been shot on old-style SD videotape in the first place is going to be limited in how far it can be improved. You can reduce the noise, tidy things up, sharpen it and even try upscaling, but it'll never be true HD.
It can still be significantly better than VHS in some of the best cases though, e.g. some of the video on the Monty Python DVDs is impressively crisp for 40-year-old video footage.
As mentioned above, the quality of film can depend on whether they re-digitise it with modern equipment (and a lot of work) or simply reuse some existing twenty-plus-year-old transfers.
Some tv shows on pre-recorded dvd are impressive. My best example is
Seinfeld Season 4 dvd
I wasn't a regular viewer, but IIRC Seinfeld looked like it was shot on film. The problem with a lot of shows from the late-80s onwards is that they shot them on film for that "look" but transferred them to (crappy American NTSC type) videotape for editing.
However, if the source footage is still available, they can probably re-digitise and re-edit it for *much* higher quality. (Unless it was a special effects show like Star Trek: The Next Generation- see my comments in this thread for more waffle).
If it's an older shot-and-edited-on-film show, they only have to redigitise the show.
..i remember my vhs by mitsubishi had the sharpening control circa mid 90s.
Yes, my parents first video recorder had a sharpness dial, and plenty of later models had it accessible via the OSD. The one I was complaining about was one I got for £50 from Amazon in 2004.
While that's ludicrously cheap, I'd assume that by then the sharpening circuit was probably just some part of a dirt-cheap chip that could be controlled via software, so why it wasn't a menu option I don't know.
Comments
Since I don't have any HD display my FreeView box downscales via scart. The artefacts are in fact more visible when watching the transmission direct - like today with the royal pageant, where various solid blocks of moving colour were visible on the BBC1 HD (25" CRT). The taped recording of this channel showed this effect to a lesser - but still visible degree.
My VCR has a sharpness control and setting it between the softest and middle setting pretty much gives a natural picture. The sharpening circuit leads to video ringing under certain conditions so I cut it right back. The VCR does have non-defeatable HQ circuitrt though so that may have some bearing.
My understanding is that even the "normal" VHS settings requires the action of a sharpening circuit to avoid the picture looking unpleasantly soft.
I'd assume the softer-than-normal sharpness settings are just reduced action for this circuit rather than any active "softening" per se.
My most recent (el cheapo) video had no way of adjusting the default sharpening, which was set quite high. That was fine on stuff recorded on that machine, but for noise-prone old tapes recorded on a different machine, it increased the visibility of noise and annoyed the hell out of me that there was no way to change it. :mad:
while its true that putting a tv show on dvd cant cure problems in the source material, unless a lot of money is spent, some tv shows on pre-recorded dvd are impressive.
my best example is:
Seinfeld Season 4 dvd
..i remember my vhs by mitsubishi had the sharpening control circa mid 90s.
Anything that's been shot on old-style SD videotape in the first place is going to be limited in how far it can be improved. You can reduce the noise, tidy things up, sharpen it and even try upscaling, but it'll never be true HD.
It can still be significantly better than VHS in some of the best cases though, e.g. some of the video on the Monty Python DVDs is impressively crisp for 40-year-old video footage.
As mentioned above, the quality of film can depend on whether they re-digitise it with modern equipment (and a lot of work) or simply reuse some existing twenty-plus-year-old transfers.
I wasn't a regular viewer, but IIRC Seinfeld looked like it was shot on film. The problem with a lot of shows from the late-80s onwards is that they shot them on film for that "look" but transferred them to (crappy American NTSC type) videotape for editing.
However, if the source footage is still available, they can probably re-digitise and re-edit it for *much* higher quality. (Unless it was a special effects show like Star Trek: The Next Generation- see my comments in this thread for more waffle).
If it's an older shot-and-edited-on-film show, they only have to redigitise the show.
Yes, my parents first video recorder had a sharpness dial, and plenty of later models had it accessible via the OSD. The one I was complaining about was one I got for £50 from Amazon in 2004.
While that's ludicrously cheap, I'd assume that by then the sharpening circuit was probably just some part of a dirt-cheap chip that could be controlled via software, so why it wasn't a menu option I don't know.