One thing here, why should Cardiff and Swansea be forced to play more English people? (And to be fair Cardiff already play with a lot of English players), surely, if anything, if we are going down this road, it would be better for them to play with Welsh players, seeing as how they are Welsh clubs??
If they played in the League of Wales and the Welsh FA wanted to do it then fine. As it is while they are in our Premier League they have to be consistent with the other 18 clubs. It would be unfair on them to have completely different parameters for buying and developing players.
If they played in the League of Wales and the Welsh FA wanted to do it then fine. As it is while they are in our Premier League they have to be consistent with the other 18 clubs. It would be unfair on them to have completely different parameters for buying and developing players.
I don't think it would be that unfair in this imaginary scenario, to set down rules and parameters, which are laid down to help the country in which the club operates from.
I am not sure about the exact details, but I think as I said earlier, something similar happens in the MLS with the Canadian clubs that participate.
So with that being said, I don't really see how it would be unfair on the Welsh clubs, they will presumably want a strong Welsh side, just like we want a strong English side.
Im not convinced that saying "You have to play 6 English guys" is particularly against any EU rules. No doubt im wrong though.
If someone said "You can only employ 5 foreign guys" then obviously thats very different.
It may well be as the foreign players would possibly be able to make a discrimination claim on the grounds that English players would get preferential treatment when it comes to playing, and that it would prevent them from doing their jobs properly or something trivial like that.
Also, did Blatter's proposed '6+5' rule mean you would've had to have six English on the pitch at all times, so in theory you had to have English subs as well, or simply that you only had to start the game with the six?
It may well be as the foreign players would possibly be able to make a discrimination claim on the grounds that English players would get preferential treatment when it comes to playing, and that it would prevent them from doing their jobs properly or something trivial like that.
See this is where i think it gets a bit interesting because a footballers "work" isnt clearly defined (AFAIK). If he has signed a contract, works all week in training, media, personal appearances and picks up his full salary then is he not employed by the club? If he then doesnt play every week he would have to surely demonstrate that it was due to the legislation rather than being dropped for any other reason. Nothing is stopping Club A signing him, playing him within the rules of the game as laid down by the League they have signed up to play in and he is getting fully paid.
See this is where i think it gets a bit interesting because a footballers "work" isnt clearly defined (AFAIK). If he has signed a contract, works all week in training, media, personal appearances and picks up his full salary then is he not employed by the club? If he then doesnt play every week he would have to surely demonstrate that it was due to the legislation rather than being dropped for any other reason. Nothing is stopping Club A signing him, playing him within the rules of the game as laid down by the League they have signed up to play in and he is getting fully paid.
Can open - worms everywhere perhaps?
It is a very grey area, I agree. I suppose though if a player has things like appearance and goal bonuses and other performance-related clauses in his contract then he probably would have a valid case in a court of law on the basis that those earnings are dependent on him playing, and that the quota is in effect preventing him from maximising his potential to earn.
Of course, as you point out the clubs could then argue that the guy wasn't good enough to play regularly and that's why he wasn't being picked, so it could well be tricky for the player to prove beyond doubt that he wasn't playing because of any quota.
All it would take though is for one player to try their luck and you'd probably then end up with a domino effect of players making the same argument, so I definitely wouldn't want to be clearing up the mess from that fallout.
It is a very grey area, I agree. I suppose though if a player has things like appearance and goal bonuses and other performance-related clauses in his contract then he probably would have a valid case in a court of law on the basis that those earnings are dependent on him playing, and that the quota is in effect preventing him from maximising his potential to earn.
Of course, as you point out the clubs could then argue that the guy wasn't good enough to play regularly and that's why he wasn't being picked, so it could well be tricky for the player to prove beyond doubt that he wasn't playing because of any quota.
All it would take though is for one player to try their luck and you'd probably then end up with a domino effect of players making the same argument, so I definitely wouldn't want to be clearing up the mess from that fallout.
Yeah that all makes sense.
I actually hate the idea as a concept anyway but it could get very messy on both sides were it attempted.
I'm tired of people harking back to the days when Italy's Serie A allowed only 2 or 3 foreign players. That was in the 80s and there were just a few good Italians around - they'd just won the '82 World Cup which had at least 4 brilliant international sides in it. Juventus just added Platini and Boniek to what was, for the most part, the winning Italian team.
The key to strengthening England (& Scotland, Wales) is to improve youth level football and make sure that any kid who is good enough gets a chance. This seems far better organised in Spain, France and Germany.
I don't believe that there are brilliant English or Scottish players out there that are being blocked from playing by some inferior foreign player.
There may be inferior English or Scottish players being blocked by mediocre foreign players, as the latter are invariably cheaper to sign, but that's irrelevant at international level.
I remember you had to get it direct from the software house to start with cos it wasnt in the shops.
I think so. I think it was Championship Manager 93(94).
The one where you cheated by managing Tranmere with the name Mr Bulgaria and you got about a £30m budget
I actually hate the idea as a concept anyway but it could get very messy on both sides were it attempted.
Agreed, even putting the potential legal rows aside all it would do is result in the big clubs hoovering up the best English players for extortionate prices and leave everyone else fighting over the scraps.
That's why if there is to be a quota, it should be on the youth systems so young players can actually progress through the academies and put themselves in a position to make it at their clubs. I couldn't see any other form of quota working, for doing English football much good.
I don't think it would be that unfair in this imaginary scenario, to set down rules and parameters, which are laid down to help the country in which the club operates from.
I am not sure about the exact details, but I think as I said earlier, something similar happens in the MLS with the Canadian clubs that participate.
So with that being said, I don't really see how it would be unfair on the Welsh clubs, they will presumably want a strong Welsh side, just like we want a strong English side.
Because there is little doubt that forcing those sides to field a minimum number of Welsh players would undermine their teams considerably. They have a far narrower talent base from which to choose and that is not being disrespectful to the Welsh, it is a reality of their status in world football.
Swansea and Cardiff could not give a toss about the Welsh national side, just like the remaining PL clubs are looking out for themselves, quite rightly, ahead of the English national team.
The fact is they are in the English Premier League, therefore, they are bound by whatever rules are agreed within that competition.
At the risk of going round in circles if they were playing in the Welsh League and that league elected to adopt a quota policy then they are bound by that policy based on the league in which they are competing and not their geographical status.
The Champions League format means we now get to see the best players competing against each other week in week out so there really isnt the same desire for International football. Personally much as I love the Euros and World Cups in the summertime its more because it means there is loads of football on that otherwise wouldnt be. I hate international breaks with a passion!!
Mostly agreed really, bar major tournaments the focus is on club football, we shouldn't detriment that.
England were useless before foreign players arrived en masse. It's just easier for Dyke to blame them, while the FA are appointing innovative visionaries like Roy Hodgson and Gareth Southgate to lead the main teams. If the FA want to improve things, first thing they need to do is allow "B" reserve teams and "C" youth teams to play in the main league system, with no reserve team or youth team allowed to play in the same league or cup as the parent club, and youth teams limited to regional leagues.
i Agree with dyke, this is the English Premier League, which in my eyes, means more English players should be given a chance, i thought there was a rule coming in years ago, which meant every club had to have so many English players.
Personally, i would love England to win the World Cup or Euros rather, than the u can be classed as champions if u come 4th league.
Im an England fan, i love the internationals, and in a way all what were doing, by letting the world best players, in our league, is helping other countries wtf.
i Agree with dyke, this is the English Premier League, which in my eyes, means more English players should be given a chance, i thought there was a rule coming in years ago, which meant every club had to have so many English players.
Personally, i would love England to win the World Cup or Euros rather, than the u can be classed as champions if u come 4th league.
Im an England fan, i love the internationals, and in a way all what were doing, by letting the world best players, in our league, is helping other countries wtf.
How is it helping other countries. English players have just as much opportunity to go and play in other countries as foriegn players have coming here. They are just not good enough!!
As usual in this country whenever things are going wrong the scapegoat is johnny foriegners.
Big clubs dont give our players a chance, they just want some big name, because it fits in with there corporate style, that they want to fluant around the world.
Id rather see an English league, played with English players mainly with say 4 from other countries, in a squad, thhink thats fair.
Do fans over here, really care if teams like Man U, Chelsea, Man City, are big in Botswana, Timbuctoo, Iceland or whatever.
im an Everton,fan, id rather England win a cup than Everton.
Cause Everton winning a cup, would be big for Everton fans.
But what weve got to remember an England win, would be mega huge for the whole country, partys etc, Surely having something big like that happen, is bigger than a Club winning something.
Maybe im too old, but i remember football, when we were out of Europe.
So the big 3 or 4 clubs would sign up the current England squad and the other clubs would have to make do with Championship-quality players when better (and cheaper) options were available from abroad.
The Premier League is one of the top 4 leagues in Europe. It is right that clubs playing in it should seek to recruit the best players from across the world.
Maybe we should just withdraw from internationals.
What, youre joking thats the most silist ideal of about a century.
I thought a few years ago, they had planned a minimum quota, its a club v country thing again, Clubs, would rather have big names, while the Country, needs top english players.
32% of the premier league players being english, is pretty disgusting mind.
I heard Man City, are building a good youth system.
The amount of foreign players, is shown up, by the amount of english players playing in the Championship, which a few seasons you wouldnt have imagined.
Green, Shaun Wright Philips, Barton, Zamora, Johnson, Caroll and thats just QPR, and they nearly aquired \Defoe
Comments
If they played in the League of Wales and the Welsh FA wanted to do it then fine. As it is while they are in our Premier League they have to be consistent with the other 18 clubs. It would be unfair on them to have completely different parameters for buying and developing players.
If someone said "You can only employ 5 foreign guys" then obviously thats very different.
I don't think it would be that unfair in this imaginary scenario, to set down rules and parameters, which are laid down to help the country in which the club operates from.
I am not sure about the exact details, but I think as I said earlier, something similar happens in the MLS with the Canadian clubs that participate.
So with that being said, I don't really see how it would be unfair on the Welsh clubs, they will presumably want a strong Welsh side, just like we want a strong English side.
It may well be as the foreign players would possibly be able to make a discrimination claim on the grounds that English players would get preferential treatment when it comes to playing, and that it would prevent them from doing their jobs properly or something trivial like that.
Also, did Blatter's proposed '6+5' rule mean you would've had to have six English on the pitch at all times, so in theory you had to have English subs as well, or simply that you only had to start the game with the six?
See this is where i think it gets a bit interesting because a footballers "work" isnt clearly defined (AFAIK). If he has signed a contract, works all week in training, media, personal appearances and picks up his full salary then is he not employed by the club? If he then doesnt play every week he would have to surely demonstrate that it was due to the legislation rather than being dropped for any other reason. Nothing is stopping Club A signing him, playing him within the rules of the game as laid down by the League they have signed up to play in and he is getting fully paid.
Can open - worms everywhere perhaps?
It is a very grey area, I agree. I suppose though if a player has things like appearance and goal bonuses and other performance-related clauses in his contract then he probably would have a valid case in a court of law on the basis that those earnings are dependent on him playing, and that the quota is in effect preventing him from maximising his potential to earn.
Of course, as you point out the clubs could then argue that the guy wasn't good enough to play regularly and that's why he wasn't being picked, so it could well be tricky for the player to prove beyond doubt that he wasn't playing because of any quota.
All it would take though is for one player to try their luck and you'd probably then end up with a domino effect of players making the same argument, so I definitely wouldn't want to be clearing up the mess from that fallout.
Yeah that all makes sense.
I actually hate the idea as a concept anyway but it could get very messy on both sides were it attempted.
The first thing I did was get onto the transfer market and buy a load of brits....only to find that I could only play 3 foreign players in the team
So it's nothing new, although Europe has moved on a lot since then.
Blimey i had that! Around 1994ish?
I remember you had to get it direct from the software house to start with cos it wasnt in the shops.
The key to strengthening England (& Scotland, Wales) is to improve youth level football and make sure that any kid who is good enough gets a chance. This seems far better organised in Spain, France and Germany.
I don't believe that there are brilliant English or Scottish players out there that are being blocked from playing by some inferior foreign player.
There may be inferior English or Scottish players being blocked by mediocre foreign players, as the latter are invariably cheaper to sign, but that's irrelevant at international level.
Switch all Under 16 football to a summer season and have all children under the age of 14 playing 7 a side.
The one where you cheated by managing Tranmere with the name Mr Bulgaria and you got about a £30m budget
Agreed, even putting the potential legal rows aside all it would do is result in the big clubs hoovering up the best English players for extortionate prices and leave everyone else fighting over the scraps.
That's why if there is to be a quota, it should be on the youth systems so young players can actually progress through the academies and put themselves in a position to make it at their clubs. I couldn't see any other form of quota working, for doing English football much good.
yeah i remember this.
Also on the english championship manager you could never sign foreign players. Wold always fail to get work permits, Think it was a bug!
Because there is little doubt that forcing those sides to field a minimum number of Welsh players would undermine their teams considerably. They have a far narrower talent base from which to choose and that is not being disrespectful to the Welsh, it is a reality of their status in world football.
Swansea and Cardiff could not give a toss about the Welsh national side, just like the remaining PL clubs are looking out for themselves, quite rightly, ahead of the English national team.
The fact is they are in the English Premier League, therefore, they are bound by whatever rules are agreed within that competition.
At the risk of going round in circles if they were playing in the Welsh League and that league elected to adopt a quota policy then they are bound by that policy based on the league in which they are competing and not their geographical status.
Mostly agreed really, bar major tournaments the focus is on club football, we shouldn't detriment that.
Personally, i would love England to win the World Cup or Euros rather, than the u can be classed as champions if u come 4th league.
Im an England fan, i love the internationals, and in a way all what were doing, by letting the world best players, in our league, is helping other countries wtf.
How is it helping other countries. English players have just as much opportunity to go and play in other countries as foriegn players have coming here. They are just not good enough!!
As usual in this country whenever things are going wrong the scapegoat is johnny foriegners.
Id rather see an English league, played with English players mainly with say 4 from other countries, in a squad, thhink thats fair.
Do fans over here, really care if teams like Man U, Chelsea, Man City, are big in Botswana, Timbuctoo, Iceland or whatever.
im an Everton,fan, id rather England win a cup than Everton.
Cause Everton winning a cup, would be big for Everton fans.
But what weve got to remember an England win, would be mega huge for the whole country, partys etc, Surely having something big like that happen, is bigger than a Club winning something.
Maybe im too old, but i remember football, when we were out of Europe.
The Premier League is one of the top 4 leagues in Europe. It is right that clubs playing in it should seek to recruit the best players from across the world.
What, youre joking thats the most silist ideal of about a century.
I thought a few years ago, they had planned a minimum quota, its a club v country thing again, Clubs, would rather have big names, while the Country, needs top english players.
32% of the premier league players being english, is pretty disgusting mind.
I heard Man City, are building a good youth system.
The amount of foreign players, is shown up, by the amount of english players playing in the Championship, which a few seasons you wouldnt have imagined.
Green, Shaun Wright Philips, Barton, Zamora, Johnson, Caroll and thats just QPR, and they nearly aquired \Defoe