abolish rules on Christian assemblies

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  • stoatiestoatie Posts: 78,106
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    dragonzord wrote: »
    and religious people make their kids go to church of what's the different?
    And blackmail them into believing?

    Exactly. What IS the difference, dragonzord?
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    You can generally tell whether someone is religious when they bow their heads and close their eyes during compulsory prayer. The vast majority of people in my year at school didn't.

    Did you all sit round in a circle or do you have eyes in the back of your head?. :confused:

    When I was at school I was probably agnostic. I went through the motions. I have no idea what other people thought.
  • dragonzorddragonzord Posts: 1,585
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    stoatie wrote: »
    Exactly. What IS the difference, dragonzord?

    religious people are free to bring up their kids how they like, just as atheists are,but some religious people don't like it atheists say they don't want the kids to believe,
    but i believe religious people are free to bring up the kids believing and atheists are free to bring up their kids not believe its right and fair.

    and who does it hurt bringing up kids not to believe in god.
  • Trsvis_BickleTrsvis_Bickle Posts: 9,202
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    dragonzord wrote: »
    and religious people make their kids go to church of what's the different?
    And blackmail them into believing?

    Go on, take another run at it. You're almost there...:p
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,546
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    cynet wrote: »
    You do not speak for my child so don't bring other's into your distaste for religion!

    Still why don't we go the whole hog and cancel Xmas and Easter!

    Bet your be back on here complaining that you wished there was a Xmas and Easter because?

    No problem with Christmas, as it's no longer a specifically Christian festival.
  • Trsvis_BickleTrsvis_Bickle Posts: 9,202
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    You can generally tell whether someone is religious when they bow their heads and close their eyes during compulsory prayer. The vast majority of people in my year at school didn't.

    Although I am an atheist, on the rare occasions I find myself in church, I do bow my head during the prayers. I might even speak along to them, sing the hymns, keep quite when the clergyman is speaking, that sort of thing. It is really not as difficult as some obsessives on here seem to think.

    To look at some of the posts in these threads, I can just see some people staring rigidly ahead during prayers, probably holding up a big sign reading I'M AN ATHEIST. What welcome guests they must be at weddings, christenings and funerals...:D
  • mseven1mseven1 Posts: 995
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    archiver wrote: »
    They are stories and songs which have no relevance today, except as parts of the ancient concepts which created them. Giving them a special place in assembly gives them a weight which they certainly do not deserve.

    The bible was actually first published in around 1500 AD before that it was word of mouth and along the way the stories would have been over exaggerated and with more morals added. Like the bible hymns are not from 2000 years ago so your claims are not true. I am agnostic so I am looking at it in a neutral view. Stories have been going on since the dawn of time and can outdate the bible.

    When we had assemblies at school and they read from the bible it would have been a story that was relevant to current affairs or some sort of moral lesson. When I went to secondary school they read other moral stories which could have come from the bible and were probably older than bible stories and had the same moral stories. Examples of the stories we were told in assemblies in secondary school is a man sells his harmonica to buy a pendant for his wife's necklace but his wife sales her necklace to buy a case for her husband's harmonica. That story actually has the same morals as a story that would be found in the bible.
  • dragonzorddragonzord Posts: 1,585
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    mseven1 wrote: »
    The bible was actually first published in around 1500 AD before that it was word of mouth and along the way the stories would have been over exaggerated and with more morals added. Like the bible hymns are not from 2000 years ago so your claims are not true. I am agnostic so I am looking at it in a neutral view. Stories have been going on since the dawn of time and can outdate the bible.

    When we had assemblies at school and they read from the bible it would have been a story that was relevant to current affairs or some sort of moral lesson. When I went to secondary school they read other moral stories which could have come from the bible and were probably older than bible stories and had the same moral stories. Examples of the stories we were told in assemblies in secondary school is a man sells his harmonica to buy a pendant for his wife's necklace but his wife sales her necklace to buy a case for her husband's harmonica. That story actually has the same morals as a story that would be found in the bible.


    Different families have different morals.
  • mseven1mseven1 Posts: 995
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    dragonzord wrote: »
    Different families have different morals.

    Can you give examples?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 36,630
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    mseven1 wrote: »
    Can you give examples?

    You think everyone in every family shares the same morals?.

    One arm of my family is devoutly Christian, their morals include not speaking to my brother because he happens to be gay. They also don't speak to one of my cousins, nor to another relative, the son of another cousin, because she also happen to be gay.

    The rest of the family happily accept them.

    Same extended family, different morals.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 36,630
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    dragonzord wrote: »
    and religious people make their kids go to church of what's the different?
    And blackmail them into believing?

    A Church of What's the Difference actually sounds like quite a fun place. :D
  • Sun Tzu.Sun Tzu. Posts: 19,064
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    This thread just smells of authoritarian and telling people what to do.
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    jjwales wrote: »
    No problem with Christmas, as it's no longer a specifically Christian festival.

    Christmas is a Christian festival. What non Christians do is up to them.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,074
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    The BBC article the OP cites references a survey which found that over sixty percent of schools are not having collective acts of worship.

    When the issue was raised on how come so many schools do not appear to adhere to the law on collective act of worship. The Department of Education in 2012 stated "The guidance has not been withdrawn, but we are now leaving it up to schools to interpret the law how they see fit."

    However, more recently in the "Muslim plot to takeover" schools, the ofsted reports have cited failure to have collective acts of worship of a Christian nature in their reports. Which is odd since previous ofsted inspections of the same schools did not raise the lack of collective act of worship of a Christian nature. So Ofsted and the government it seems leave it up to the school except when they want to take issue with the school. The ofsted reports were also critical of the removal of Christian trappings, like the not celebrating Christmas. I cannot see the law being changed in the very near future on collective acts of worship of a Christian nature due to the furore over Islamification of schools.
  • Keyser_Soze1Keyser_Soze1 Posts: 25,182
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    Not really the issue of this discussion - but I saw a programme once on Islamic faith schools in this country and was totally horrified at all those bright young minds being crushed under the Islamic jackboot.

    Then again that is how religion maintains it's numbers, indoctrinate children as young as possible before they can think for themselves. :(
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,546
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    SULLA wrote: »
    Christmas is a Christian festival. What non Christians do is up to them.

    My point was that non-Christians celebrate Christmas as well. For them it's a secular festival.
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,546
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    Sun Tzu. wrote: »
    This thread just smells of authoritarian and telling people what to do.

    Are you referring to children being compelled to attend collective acts of worship?
  • stoatiestoatie Posts: 78,106
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    jjwales wrote: »
    Are you referring to children being compelled to attend collective acts of worship?

    We've had the lot, really. We've had compelling kids to attend worship AND banning them from going to church.
  • dragonzorddragonzord Posts: 1,585
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    stoatie wrote: »
    We've had the lot, really. We've had compelling kids to attend worship AND banning them from going to church.


    if people there kids to be free of religion its up to them,
    if people want their kids to have a religion its up to them.
    what do some religious people have a hard time with people that don't want their kids have anything to do with religion.
  • TheSilentFezTheSilentFez Posts: 11,103
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    SULLA wrote: »
    Did you all sit round in a circle or do you have eyes in the back of your head?. :confused:

    We usually sat in a vague sort of semi-circle. A couple of times during a particularly long and boring prayer, I looked around to see if anyone else wasn't praying and most people weren't.
    Although I am an atheist, on the rare occasions I find myself in church, I do bow my head during the prayers. I might even speak along to them, sing the hymns, keep quite when the clergyman is speaking, that sort of thing. It is really not as difficult as some obsessives on here seem to think.

    To be fair, I used to do but then I asked myself "what was the point?" and eventually stopped doing it. I still bow my head during sombre occasions such as remembrance day services, but if someone is telling us something pointless and banal like how God is going to guide us through our A-level exams then I don't bother.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 36,630
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    Not really the issue of this discussion - but I saw a programme once on Islamic faith schools in this country and was totally horrified at all those bright young minds being crushed under the Islamic jackboot.

    Then again that is how religion maintains it's numbers, indoctrinate children as young as possible before they can think for themselves. :(

    Religion has always been about power and control.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 36,630
    Forum Member
    The BBC article the OP cites references a survey which found that over sixty percent of schools are not having collective acts of worship.

    When the issue was raised on how come so many schools do not appear to adhere to the law on collective act of worship. The Department of Education in 2012 stated "The guidance has not been withdrawn, but we are now leaving it up to schools to interpret the law how they see fit."

    However, more recently in the "Muslim plot to takeover" schools, the ofsted reports have cited failure to have collective acts of worship of a Christian nature in their reports. Which is odd since previous ofsted inspections of the same schools did not raise the lack of collective act of worship of a Christian nature. So Ofsted and the government it seems leave it up to the school except when they want to take issue with the school. The ofsted reports were also critical of the removal of Christian trappings, like the not celebrating Christmas. I cannot see the law being changed in the very near future on collective acts of worship of a Christian nature due to the furore over Islamification of schools.

    True, and that too is quite dangerous.

    If those with strong Christian views manage to push their agenda again, and schools start to reintroduce collective Christian worship again, it would be a step backwards for us as a secular nation in terms of removing all religion from mainstream education.
  • MoggioMoggio Posts: 4,289
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    Not really the issue of this discussion - but I saw a programme once on Islamic faith schools in this country and was totally horrified at all those bright young minds being crushed under the Islamic jackboot.

    Then again that is how religion maintains it's numbers, indoctrinate children as young as possible before they can think for themselves. :(

    All the more reason to abolish faith schools and make education secular.
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    jjwales wrote: »
    My point was that non-Christians celebrate Christmas as well. For them it's a secular festival.

    In that case they are not celebrating Christmas.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,074
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    If those with strong Christian views manage to push their agenda again, and schools start to reintroduce collective Christian worship again, it would be a step backwards for us as a secular nation in terms of removing all religion from mainstream education.
    You mean a step back for those that want the UK to be a secularist nation. Currently are we a secularist nation? The head of state is also the Supreme Governor of the Church of England the official state religion, and at the start of sittings of both houses of parliament there are prayers led by the Speaker's Chaplain.
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