Beth is one of the few public figures that has ever meant anything to me. It is called being confident. It is not about being big or small. I don't get how anyone can't admire her, to show to the world bits your body that the majority of people(as this thread shows) are conditioned to consider unattractive that's brave.
Yuck, Beth Ditto. Sorry, but the media are scared of looking cruel which is why she has such support. She is FAT and it is UGLY, sorry but it's true. Looking grotesquely fat doesn't equal sexy. Nor does being anorexic. Why can't (as another poster said) someone advocate 'normal'? A healthy attitude to eating (with treats!) a size suitable for your height and age, and a sensible body image. Size 16 suits some girls. Size 8 others. But it really makes me sick to see a fat sweaty greasy near-alky condemn thin, pasty, ill looking bone admirers. They're as bad as each other.
I'm 5 foot 10 and a size 12. If I was a size 0 I would look (and most probably feel) very, very ill. I'd be just as ill however if I was a size 22!
Urgh. Go away Beth Ditto. You did like one OK song and you're now some poster girl for 'curves'. They're rolls! You could lose your car keys in/about the woman!!
When dealing with weight, any extreme is not healthy. Starving yourself to fit into a size zero is not healthy, but neither is being as overweight as Beth is. In fact, I'd venture that being as overweight as Beth is is more detrimental to a person's health than being a size 0. Maybe we should also ban the plus sizes because Beth and her like are not good role models for our young girls either. She is sending a bad message that it is okay to be overweight. And I'm sorry, but being as overweight as she is just shows her lack of control when it comes to food and exercise. She's not empowering; she's unhealthy and disgusting-looking.
Also, not everyone who wears a size zero is unhealthy. I used to wear a size zero and I ate perfectly well. I've since gained a little bit of weight, so now I wear a size 2 (most of the time) or 4, but there is such a thing as being naturally thin. It is all based on a person's genes and metabolism.
Yuck, Beth Ditto. Sorry, but the media are scared of looking cruel which is why she has such support. She is FAT and it is UGLY, sorry but it's true. Looking grotesquely fat doesn't equal sexy. Nor does being anorexic. Why can't (as another poster said) someone advocate 'normal'? A healthy attitude to eating (with treats!) a size suitable for your height and age, and a sensible body image. Size 16 suits some girls. Size 8 others. But it really makes me sick to see a fat sweaty greasy near-alky condemn thin, pasty, ill looking bone admirers. They're as bad as each other.
I'm 5 foot 10 and a size 12. If I was a size 0 I would look (and most probably feel) very, very ill. I'd be just as ill however if I was a size 22!
Urgh. Go away Beth Ditto. You did like one OK song and you're now some poster girl for 'curves'. They're rolls! You could lose your car keys in/about the woman!!
Since when have 'the media' been scared to look cruel. You don't have to be sorry it says more about you than it does about her. Ah normal, suitable and sensible... sounds fun
I fricking love Beth Ditto. She's smart, funny, perceptive, and, yes, sexy.
And why do I think all the people saying her weight is less healthy than being a size zero have never looked at any data on the subject, read any studies, bothered to acquire any knowledge on the topic at all and are in fact just talking out of their (no doubt cellulite/hair free and beautifully toned arses?) Oh yeah --because they're WRONG.
It is possible to be healthy at pretty much any size. People with BMIs of 25-30 (that is, officially overweight) have the lowest mortality rates of anyone in the population. Someone who's size zero is actually much more LIKELY to be seriously unhealthy that someone Beth's size. But hey, why let the facts get in the way of your bitchfest?
And I'm 5'8 and size 8, so, no, I have no personal investment in the issue. I just don't think fat people should have to deal with ignorant prejudice.
When is someone going to start a campaign for normal sized women?
That is anyone who isn't emaciated (i.e. Kiera Knightley, Amy Whinehouse, Nicole Richie etc etc.) and also nobody grossly overweight like Beth Ditto.
I'm all in favour of women supporting each other but famous women seem to go to the far end of each extreme. Either look like a lollipop or start stripping off down to your underkecks like Beth. No that is not nice to look at and it does us no favours.
Cover up woman it's revolting.
Alison Moyet was a big lass but she went for the musical talent not shoving her flab in our faces (and yes I know there will be at least one wierd male out there who probably likes it............)
I blame Mica for this obsession with flaunting being big. ("take yourself down to the Butterfly Lounge and find yourself a big laidee")
It's bad for your health being fat and also bad to be a bag of bones.
Campaign For Average Sized Human Beings starts here.
Someone who doesn't look like a) they're going to die of malnutrition or b) drop dead of a heart attack due to their great big hulking frame. A size 12 or 14, somebody who's not skin and bones but also not morbidly obese - like the 'average' woman I guess.
Perez Hilton seems to have his head stuck up Ditto's fundament, and yet slags off Britney for looking what he calls 'fat'. But then, who takes that fat tit seriously anyway?
Why would there be a need for such a campaign? To exclude everyone who doesn't fit in with your definition of normal so you can feel like 'we are fine and everyone thinner and fatter than us is revolting' Why should women be 'nice to look at' all the time? I think it is f*cking powerful to see Beth stripping off down to her underkecks. If it fuels such 'disgust' in people it must be doing something worthwhile. There is nothing wrong in being average but there is something wrong in suggesting that it is the only acceptable way to be.
When is someone going to start a campaign for normal sized women?
That is anyone who isn't emaciated (i.e. Kiera Knightley, Amy Whinehouse, Nicole Richie etc etc.) and also nobody grossly overweight like Beth Ditto.
I'm all in favour of women supporting each other but famous women seem to go to the far end of each extreme. Either look like a lollipop or start stripping off down to your underkecks like Beth. No that is not nice to look at and it does us no favours.
Cover up woman it's revolting.
Alison Moyet was a big lass but she went for the musical talent not shoving her flab in our faces (and yes I know there will be at least one wierd male out there who probably likes it............)
I blame Mica for this obsession with flaunting being big. ("take yourself down to the Butterfly Lounge and find yourself a big laidee")
It's bad for your health being fat and also bad to be a bag of bones.
Campaign For Average Sized Human Beings starts here.
Why would there be a need for such a campaign? To exclude everyone who doesn't fit in with your definition of normal so you can feel like 'we are fine and everyone thinner and fatter than us is revolting' Why should women be 'nice to look at' all the time? I think it is f*cking powerful to see Beth stripping off down to her underkecks. If it fuels such 'disgust' in people it must be doing something worthwhile. There is nothing wrong in being average but there is something wrong in suggesting that it is the only acceptable way to be.
But isn't Ditto excluding those who she doesn't want to see by 'banning' size zero
I have no objection to her stripping off as and when she so wants but what I do object to is her then criticising others whom perhaps make her feel inadequate or otherwise.
But isn't Ditto excluding those who she doesn't want to see by 'banning' size zero
I have no objection to her stripping off as and when she so wants but what I do object to is her then criticising others whom perhaps make her feel inadequate or otherwise.
Have you actually read the article? She's trying to ban the actual label "size zero", not being the size of a size zero, though I would if I could, repulsive anorexic bitches.... oh, is that not acceptable? Seeing as fat women have been called: grotesque, disgusting-looking, ugly, minging and lacking in self control in this thread I thought it was fine to cast aspertions on other peoples' bodies
I have never read such blatant bigotry. Try swapping the word "fat" for "black", "gay" or any other repressed minority in this thread, read back your own comments then realise how horrible you sound.
Why will it always be acceptable to take the p*ss out of fat people :mad: Imagine if you knew Beth Ditto, she was your sister, daughter or friend, and she read this and was really upset, crying her eyes out, maybe even getting depressed because of it, wouldn't you feel really sorry for her and hate everyone on this thread? I have large friends and family members and would hate for them to see anything as flagrantly disrespectful and inhumane as this thread, it would break their hearts :mad:
Have you actually read the article? She's trying to ban the actual label "size zero", not being the size of a size zero, though I would if I could, repulsive anorexic bitches.... oh, is that not acceptable? Seeing as fat women have been called: grotesque, disgusting-looking, ugly, minging and lacking in self control in this thread I thought it was fine to cast aspertions on other peoples' bodies
I have never read such blatant bigotry. Try swapping the word "fat" for "black", "gay" or any other repressed minority in this thread, read back your own comments then realise how horrible you sound.
Why will it always be acceptable to take the p*ss out of fat people :mad: Imagine if you knew Beth Ditto, she was your sister, daughter or friend, and she read this and was really upset, crying her eyes out, maybe even getting depressed because of it, wouldn't you feel really sorry for her and hate everyone on this thread? I have large friends and family members and would hate for them to see anything as flagrantly disrespectful and inhumane as this thread, it would break their hearts :mad:
Wait just a minute. I have never called her 'repulsive' or 'lacking in self control'. I am merely stating the hypocrisy of a woman of one body type, attempting to put labels on women of another body type. Good for her being big and happy - doesn't mean she has the right to start criticising others or attempting to homogenise everyone into categories that are acceptable to her.
Why should size zero be banned? I will never be a size zero and never will be but the fact that the size exists does not bother me an iota.
I think Ditto can cope with the criticism personally - doesn't look like she gives a stuff - and again, good on her.
Wait just a minute. I have never called her 'repulsive' or 'lacking in self control'. I am merely stating the hypocrisy of a woman of one body type, attempting to put labels on women of another body type. Good for her being big and happy - doesn't mean she has the right to start criticising others or attempting to homogenise everyone into categories that are acceptable to her.
Why should size zero be banned? I will never be a size zero and never will be but the fact that the size exists does not bother me an iota.
I think Ditto can cope with the criticism personally - doesn't look like she gives a stuff - and again, good on her.
I was citing Beth Ditto as an example, but as the insults were directed at fat people in general and you are being pedantic, let us take Beth out of the equation, and think how these comments would sound to any overweight person reading them. Maybe they would not be able to cope with the criticism.
Also I did not say that you made these comments, I was referring to comments made on the entire thread, though I am less than impressed by the way "normal" has been bandied about this thread, normal in Milan is to be a size zero, normal in Nigeria is to be about a size 18 upwards.
Who are we to decide what is normal
I personally think it is 'normal' to enjoy life and as a part of that to enjoy food, but if someone prefers looking in the mirror and seeing an extremely thin body to any of that, who am I to judge :rolleyes:
Kisses Captin'
Well said.
People who use the world "normal" must have a very narrow life experience.
I could not impose normality on anything - would hate to- especially aesthetics.
I was citing Beth Ditto as an example, but as the insults were directed at fat people in general and you are being pedantic, let us take Beth out of the equation, and think how these comments would sound to any overweight person reading them. Maybe they would not be able to cope with the criticism.
Also I did not say that you made these comments, I was referring to comments made on the entire thread, though I am less than impressed by the way "normal" has been bandied about this thread, normal in Milan is to be a size zero, normal in Nigeria is to be about a size 18 upwards.
Who are we to decide what is normal
I personally think it is 'normal' to enjoy life and as a part of that to enjoy food, but if someone prefers looking in the mirror and seeing an extremely thin body to any of that, who am I to judge :rolleyes:
You seem to be missing, or deliberately ignoring the point that Ditto herself is placing boundaries on what SHE considers acceptable.
I don't give a stuff what size people are as long as they don't start preaching to me about what size is or isn't acceptable.
You seem to be missing, or deliberately ignoring the point that Ditto herself is placing boundaries on what SHE considers acceptable.
I don't give a stuff what size people are as long as they don't start preaching to me about what size is or isn't acceptable.
No, I think you seem to be missing the point, she didn't say she has a problem with people who are the weight and size of a size zero, she has a problem with the name of the size, she believes that women should not aspire to be the "nothing" that the word "zero" ie nothing, nada, zip, zilch means, she believes it to be bad for womens' self esteem to aspire to nothingness.
I personally think that view is tosh and that it's just really bad to aspire to be a size zero anyway, but I'm sick of all the fat-bashing on this thread, especially as Beth seems really nice, natural and a generally really cool girl.
Apparently as I'm not obese, I am allowed to dictate what sizes are acceptable, as there are several arguments on this thread that Beth, as a large lady, should not be able to give her opinion that size zero should not exist. So I shall do it for her
Kisses Captin'
Well said.
People who use the world "normal" must have a very narrow life experience.
I could not impose normality on anything - would hate to- especially aesthetics.
Thank you for support Orangebathwater I really shouldn't post on size-debate threads, I don't know about any of the skinnies and fatties out there, but it's certainly bad for my health!
No, I think you seem to be missing the point, she didn't say she has a problem with people who are the weight and size of a size zero, she has a problem with the name of the size, she believes that women should not aspire to be the "nothing" that the word "zero" ie nothing, nada, zip, zilch means, she believes it to be bad for womens' self esteem to aspire to nothingness.
I personally think that view is tosh and that it's just really bad to aspire to be a size zero anyway, but I'm sick of all the fat-bashing on this thread, especially as Beth seems really nice, natural and a generally really cool girl.
Apparently as I'm not obese, I am allowed to dictate what sizes are acceptable, as there are several arguments on this thread that Beth, as a large lady, should not be able to give her opinion that size zero should not exist. So I shall do it for her
Oh for goodness sake - you really have missed the point. I can't be bothered any more.
Oh for goodness sake - you really have missed the point. I can't be bothered any more.
Why do you assume all comments are directed at you? I was referring to the previous posts by other FMs that Beth Ditto was "too fat and ugly" to have an opinion on whether size zero as a phrase is detrimental to a woman's self-esteem. I don't remember you saying anything like that.
My comments to you were merely that you seemed to have got the wrong end of the stick re Beth's problem with size zero, you seemed to be implying that she was annoyed by the actuality of it, whereas I was trying to point out it was the name she took umbridge over.
Please don't treat me as if I'm a thickie, trust me, I get your point
Why do you assume all comments are directed at you? I was referring to the previous posts by other FMs that Beth Ditto was "too fat and ugly" to have an opinion on whether size zero as a phrase is detrimental to a woman's self-esteem. I don't remember you saying anything like that.
My comments to you were merely that you seemed to have got the wrong end of the stick re Beth's problem with size zero, you seemed to be implying that she was annoyed by the actuality of it, whereas I was trying to point out it was the name she took umbridge over.
Please don't treat me as if I'm a thickie, trust me, I get your point
I wasn't treating anyone like a thickie. I did think your original response was slightly hysterical and I'm only replying to replies that you've made to me.
I don't think it's the name she is taking umbrage over - I think she has said that to cover up the fact that she thinks the size should be banned per se - just my opinion. If somebody wants to be a size zero and achieve such a fatuous aim, well, more fool them, but let them get on with it.
If Victoria Beckham or Nicole Ritchie made the assertion that size 20 should be banned because it's an even number or because it's a little overweight or because it's bad for self esteem (they probably have at some stage), they would rightly be lampooned and criticised. I don't really see the difference between such an unlikely scenario and Ditto waxing lyrical about size zero.
Fat, thin, clinically obese, skeletal, beautiful, ugly, whatever, none of us have the right to dictate what sizes are acceptable and which aren't. Personally, I do think Ditto is too big, just as I think Victoria Beckham is far, far too thin (and horrible looking). I'm just sick of all these women of different shapes and sizes making assertions about what the average woman should look like/wear/eat etc.. etc..
I don't think it's the name she is taking umbrage over - I think she has said that to cover up the fact that she thinks the size should be banned per se - just my opinion.
Just wondering why you think this, as its not what she says in the article?
Comments
I'm 5 foot 10 and a size 12. If I was a size 0 I would look (and most probably feel) very, very ill. I'd be just as ill however if I was a size 22!
Urgh. Go away Beth Ditto. You did like one OK song and you're now some poster girl for 'curves'. They're rolls! You could lose your car keys in/about the woman!!
Also, not everyone who wears a size zero is unhealthy. I used to wear a size zero and I ate perfectly well. I've since gained a little bit of weight, so now I wear a size 2 (most of the time) or 4, but there is such a thing as being naturally thin. It is all based on a person's genes and metabolism.
And why do I think all the people saying her weight is less healthy than being a size zero have never looked at any data on the subject, read any studies, bothered to acquire any knowledge on the topic at all and are in fact just talking out of their (no doubt cellulite/hair free and beautifully toned arses?) Oh yeah --because they're WRONG.
It is possible to be healthy at pretty much any size. People with BMIs of 25-30 (that is, officially overweight) have the lowest mortality rates of anyone in the population. Someone who's size zero is actually much more LIKELY to be seriously unhealthy that someone Beth's size. But hey, why let the facts get in the way of your bitchfest?
And I'm 5'8 and size 8, so, no, I have no personal investment in the issue. I just don't think fat people should have to deal with ignorant prejudice.
Couldn't agree more - absolutely spot on.
Someone who doesn't look like a) they're going to die of malnutrition or b) drop dead of a heart attack due to their great big hulking frame. A size 12 or 14, somebody who's not skin and bones but also not morbidly obese - like the 'average' woman I guess.
Perez Hilton seems to have his head stuck up Ditto's fundament, and yet slags off Britney for looking what he calls 'fat'. But then, who takes that fat tit seriously anyway?
But isn't Ditto excluding those who she doesn't want to see by 'banning' size zero
I have no objection to her stripping off as and when she so wants but what I do object to is her then criticising others whom perhaps make her feel inadequate or otherwise.
Have you actually read the article? She's trying to ban the actual label "size zero", not being the size of a size zero, though I would if I could, repulsive anorexic bitches.... oh, is that not acceptable? Seeing as fat women have been called: grotesque, disgusting-looking, ugly, minging and lacking in self control in this thread I thought it was fine to cast aspertions on other peoples' bodies
I have never read such blatant bigotry. Try swapping the word "fat" for "black", "gay" or any other repressed minority in this thread, read back your own comments then realise how horrible you sound.
Why will it always be acceptable to take the p*ss out of fat people :mad: Imagine if you knew Beth Ditto, she was your sister, daughter or friend, and she read this and was really upset, crying her eyes out, maybe even getting depressed because of it, wouldn't you feel really sorry for her and hate everyone on this thread? I have large friends and family members and would hate for them to see anything as flagrantly disrespectful and inhumane as this thread, it would break their hearts :mad:
I wish you would "end off" :rolleyes:, but I would swap "end" for something else if it were printable
Wait just a minute. I have never called her 'repulsive' or 'lacking in self control'. I am merely stating the hypocrisy of a woman of one body type, attempting to put labels on women of another body type. Good for her being big and happy - doesn't mean she has the right to start criticising others or attempting to homogenise everyone into categories that are acceptable to her.
Why should size zero be banned? I will never be a size zero and never will be but the fact that the size exists does not bother me an iota.
I think Ditto can cope with the criticism personally - doesn't look like she gives a stuff - and again, good on her.
I was citing Beth Ditto as an example, but as the insults were directed at fat people in general and you are being pedantic, let us take Beth out of the equation, and think how these comments would sound to any overweight person reading them. Maybe they would not be able to cope with the criticism.
Also I did not say that you made these comments, I was referring to comments made on the entire thread, though I am less than impressed by the way "normal" has been bandied about this thread, normal in Milan is to be a size zero, normal in Nigeria is to be about a size 18 upwards.
Who are we to decide what is normal
I personally think it is 'normal' to enjoy life and as a part of that to enjoy food, but if someone prefers looking in the mirror and seeing an extremely thin body to any of that, who am I to judge :rolleyes:
Well said.
People who use the world "normal" must have a very narrow life experience.
I could not impose normality on anything - would hate to- especially aesthetics.
You seem to be missing, or deliberately ignoring the point that Ditto herself is placing boundaries on what SHE considers acceptable.
I don't give a stuff what size people are as long as they don't start preaching to me about what size is or isn't acceptable.
No, I think you seem to be missing the point, she didn't say she has a problem with people who are the weight and size of a size zero, she has a problem with the name of the size, she believes that women should not aspire to be the "nothing" that the word "zero" ie nothing, nada, zip, zilch means, she believes it to be bad for womens' self esteem to aspire to nothingness.
I personally think that view is tosh and that it's just really bad to aspire to be a size zero anyway, but I'm sick of all the fat-bashing on this thread, especially as Beth seems really nice, natural and a generally really cool girl.
Apparently as I'm not obese, I am allowed to dictate what sizes are acceptable, as there are several arguments on this thread that Beth, as a large lady, should not be able to give her opinion that size zero should not exist. So I shall do it for her
Thank you for support Orangebathwater
Oh for goodness sake - you really have missed the point. I can't be bothered any more.
Why do you assume all comments are directed at you? I was referring to the previous posts by other FMs that Beth Ditto was "too fat and ugly" to have an opinion on whether size zero as a phrase is detrimental to a woman's self-esteem. I don't remember you saying anything like that.
My comments to you were merely that you seemed to have got the wrong end of the stick re Beth's problem with size zero, you seemed to be implying that she was annoyed by the actuality of it, whereas I was trying to point out it was the name she took umbridge over.
Please don't treat me as if I'm a thickie, trust me, I get your point
I wasn't treating anyone like a thickie. I did think your original response was slightly hysterical and I'm only replying to replies that you've made to me.
I don't think it's the name she is taking umbrage over - I think she has said that to cover up the fact that she thinks the size should be banned per se - just my opinion. If somebody wants to be a size zero and achieve such a fatuous aim, well, more fool them, but let them get on with it.
If Victoria Beckham or Nicole Ritchie made the assertion that size 20 should be banned because it's an even number or because it's a little overweight or because it's bad for self esteem (they probably have at some stage), they would rightly be lampooned and criticised. I don't really see the difference between such an unlikely scenario and Ditto waxing lyrical about size zero.
Fat, thin, clinically obese, skeletal, beautiful, ugly, whatever, none of us have the right to dictate what sizes are acceptable and which aren't. Personally, I do think Ditto is too big, just as I think Victoria Beckham is far, far too thin (and horrible looking). I'm just sick of all these women of different shapes and sizes making assertions about what the average woman should look like/wear/eat etc.. etc..
Just wondering why you think this, as its not what she says in the article?
Because why say it otherwise?
Being a size 1 or 2 is hardly any better. & she knows she would get a lot of stick if she came out and said size zero should be banned etc.....