People who are anti-capitalism...

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  • fraserafrasera Posts: 8,271
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    Lyricalis wrote: »
    And the vast majority of people in capitalist systems are moulded from an early age into worker drones and good little consumers where they can never be truly happy because they are convinced that what they currently have is never enough.

    you can choose to be a drone fine, but its your choice. like it or not the capitalist system also gives you the ability to be something more. many great people from capitalist systems were not children of wealth, or brought up to be drones, so the idea is basically nonsense. there is no guarantee of happiness. no one ever said there was. which is not to say that poverty is something noble. its better to be decent well off with an ipod and unhappy rather than living on a collective farm and being unhappy. anyways the idea that we are molded is a load of sh*t really, in capitalist democratic systems there is freedom of thought. for every voice telling you the ipod is awesome, theres someone like you moaning it won't bring you existential happiness. whereas in communist systems you really have zero say in the matter. in fact they'll hammer you down to preserve the system.
  • Joni MJoni M Posts: 70,225
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    Lyricalis wrote: »
    And the vast majority of people in capitalist systems are moulded from an early age into worker drones and good little consumers where they can never be truly happy because they are convinced that what they currently have is never enough.

    ..... and women are treated as equal in the work place until they then have to go home cook, clean, look after the kids, etc etc etc.
  • fraserafrasera Posts: 8,271
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    Joni M wrote: »
    ..... and women are treated as equal in the work place until they then have to go home cook, clean, look after the kids, etc etc etc.

    lol that has nothing to do with the capitalist system. in fact places like the soviet union/china have far more patriarchal societies than the west. you think the women were doing the house work in those countries? of course. in fact one reason for russian brides was that many considered the men of those countries rather piggish.

    anyways its your choice if you want to do the house work. perhaps women want it done their way or the highway, so they end up doing it themselves.
  • Joni MJoni M Posts: 70,225
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    frasera wrote: »
    lol that has nothing to do with the capitalist system. in fact places like the soviet union/china have far more patriarchal societies than the west. you think the women were doing the house work in those countries? of course. in fact one reason for russian brides was that many considered the men of those countries rather piggish.

    anyways its your choice if you want to do the house work. perhaps women want it done their way or the highway, so they end up doing it themselves.

    I was trying to find a post where I could squeeze that in :D

    It does concern me though when I look at anthropolical studies, it's always the women, I haven't found anywhere yet where it's the men that take on the the majority workload.

    I'm going off topic now, but would be a good discussion for anothe thread maybe? :)
  • LyricalisLyricalis Posts: 57,958
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    frasera wrote: »
    you can choose to be a drone fine, but its your choice. like it or not the capitalist system also gives you the ability to be something more. many great people from capitalist systems were not children of wealth, or brought up to be drones, so the idea is basically nonsense. there is no guarantee of happiness. no one ever said there was. which is not to say that poverty is something noble. its better to be decent well off with an ipod and unhappy rather than living on a collective farm and being unhappy. anyways the idea that we are molded is a load of sh*t really, in capitalist democratic systems there is freedom of thought. for every voice telling you the ipod is awesome, theres someone like you moaning it won't bring you existential happiness. whereas in communist systems you really have zero say in the matter. in fact they'll hammer you down to preserve the system.

    Capital letters are the start of your sentences would be a good idea.

    Capitalism does not equal democracy stop confusing the two, ones does not require the other. The freedoms you talk about are due to democracy and not capitalism.
  • LyricalisLyricalis Posts: 57,958
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    RussellIan wrote: »
    You don't need to mould something where it already fits. Most folk are innately shallow and sallow, which is probably nature trying to give us a Darwinian hint.

    I guess I don't share your poor opinion of our species, not that you are alone in thinking along those lines. I believe that those who exploit the majority of our population like us to believe that what they do agrees with human nature because it helps justify the present inequality of our society and their position within it.

    They confuse the way that all animals behave when food is scarce (every family/individual for themselves) with how people behave when they have enough to survive on (sharing and being hospitable to visitors and neighbours). Greed and selfishness in plentiful situations are only seen in children naturally.
  • johnloonyjohnloony Posts: 6,110
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    It's not an either/or question. Socialism is a transitional system which exists for a historical epoch while it evolves towards communism.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    ...Would you rather live under socialism or communism?

    I would rather live under Green economics than any of the above.

    http://www.greeneconomics.org.uk/

    http://www.greeneconomics.net/what2f.htm
  • zoundszounds Posts: 10,730
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    I would rather live under Green economics that any of the above.

    http://www.greeneconomics.org.uk/
    I used to care, but sadly I don't any more, I wish I could get my 'caring' attitude back.
    I lost it once I realised that 99.99999% of people are idiots and nothing I can do will change anything.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    zounds wrote: »
    I used to care, but sadly I don't any more, I wish I could get my 'caring' attitude back.
    I lost it once I realised that 99.99999% of people are idiots and nothing I can do will change anything.

    Sadly capitalism won't stop the 99.9% of people being idiots.

    In fact capitalism thrives on the majority of people being idiots.

    Oh it pretends to want people to strive to become millionaires or great inventors, but McDs and other institutes of capitalism wouldn't survive if people were intelligent.

    We need people to strive for knowledge not wealth.
  • zoundszounds Posts: 10,730
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    We need people to strive for knowledge not wealth.
    I think we need a culling myself.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    zounds wrote: »
    I think we need a culling myself.

    Oh I agree, and have always said that the earth's human population needs at least halving, if not cutting down to a third.

    I'd love to live in a world where your nearest neighbour is over a mile away.

    Where the natural beauty of the world wasn't ruined by so many buildings, or by ignorant people who drop **** butts and other capitalist litter.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 27
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    This explains it all with Cows


    A CHRISTIAN: You have two cows. You keep one and give one to your neighbor.

    A SOCIALIST: You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to
    your neighbor.

    A REPUBLICAN: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So what?

    A DEMOCRAT: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for
    being successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you
    to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for then
    take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor. You feel
    righteous.

    A COMMUNIST: You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you
    with milk.

    A FASCIST: You have two cows. The government seizes both and sells you the
    milk. You join the underground and start a campaign of sabotage.

    DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. The government taxes you to
    the point you have to sell both to support a man in a foreign country who
    has only one cow, which was a gift from your government.

    CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull and
    build a herd of cows.

    BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. The government takes them
    both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, then pours the
    milk down the drain.

    AN AMERICAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You sell one, and force the
    other to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops
    dead.

    FRENCH CORPORATION: You have two cows. You go on strike because you want
    three cows.

    JAPANESE CORPORATION: You have two cows. You redesign them so they are an
    eleventh the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk.

    A GERMAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You reengineer them so they live
    for 100 years, eat once a month and milk themselves.

    AN ITALIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows but you don't know where they
    are.. You break for lunch.

    A RUSSIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You count them and learn you have
    five cows. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them
    again and learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another
    bottle of vodka.

    A MEXICAN CORPORATION: You think you have two cows, but you're not sure
    where they are. You'll look for them tomorrow.

    A SWISS CORPORATION: You have 5000 cows, none of which belongs to you. You
    charge for storing them for others.

    A BRAZILIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You enter into a partnership
    with an American corporation. Soon you have 1000 cows and the American
    corporation declares bankruptcy.

    AN INDIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You worship them.

    A TALIBAN ORGANIZATION: You have two cows. You load them up with Explosives
    and herd them onto your neighbor's property where you blow them up. Your
    neighbor dies. You starve to death.
  • MartinJMartinJ Posts: 10,054
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    actually we will have four choices...

    Capitalism, socialism, communism, totalitarianism.

    So what'll it be?

    I would prefer totalitarianism - but only if I was at the top ;)
  • SystemSystem Posts: 2,096,970
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    RussellIan wrote: »
    Socialism and communism would be wonderful ideals, if it wasn't for money and power. Oh, and the seemingly innate urge to kill your people.

    Is this inspired by the criminal damage to that banker blokey's house that was claimed by an 'anti-capitalist' mob? If we were to learn that the culprits were all 'Twittering' about it whilst plugged into their I-Pods and phones, I would try and feign surprise.

    :D Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury, raise the double standard...:cool:
  • GratingCheeseGratingCheese Posts: 2,649
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    frasera wrote: »
    to be fair thats just a systematic mistake/hole that developed and isn't indicative of a problem with the entire system.

    It has been admitted there has been a fundamental flaw in the system.

    Callaghan, you have been vindicated. Though why did hold hold out on those pay rises!? Things could have been so diffferent.
  • droogiefretdroogiefret Posts: 24,117
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    What kind of shackles do I want to live in.....mmmmm - it's hard choice.
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