There are 2 different types of songwriting.
Sometimes you'll see "words by X, music by Y" or words by X, music by X &Y"
In cases like these, a writer with have lyrics ready to add to a song, then a second writer will add the melody lines and chords, or it may work the other way round. In the second example, writer X has the words, then works together with writer Y on the melody. In both of these cases, lyrics and music are treated separately as far as credits and royalties go.
Then you get the case where 2 (or more) writers set out to write a song, melodies, chords, words etc. Then you'll see the song credited as "words and music by X & Y"
For royalty payments, no matter who did what, everything is split 50/50, even if writer X only added an "and" to the lyrics
Mainly because there are too many idiots around who will dismiss an artist simply because they don't use the title...
As I've said on numerous occasions, you don't expect an opera singer to have written an opera, so why this nonsense in pop?
IMO it's far more than that...
A songwriter should have other people queueing around the corner to sing their songs.. if there's no queue you can take it that their songs aren't very good and writing crap does not qualify you as a songwriter.
tbh i dont think you can compare opera with pop...
i do think however that your perspective is stuck in the past, since the beatles pop stars HAVE had the ability to write/create their own music, so thats the last 50 years or so. i think pop demands it, youth culture since the beatles has been a rich and varied smorgasboard of fashion/style/genre and the most successful movements in pop has been youth driven. its been the youth of the day who have created the greatest movements , the fashion and music, so it goes without saying that they were also best placed to write the music they had created!
They don't write their own music, they have a dedicated writer/producer (Sergio Pizzorno for the new line-up) who gives them songs. To look less manufactured, he's given a VIP prominence in the band.
A songwriter should have other people queueing around the corner to sing their songs.. if there's no queue you can take it that their songs aren't very good and writing crap does not qualify you as a songwriter.
On second thoughts, Gneiss, you are right. Prince was/is a great songwriter. His songs are still played and there certainly has been a queue of other artists wanting to use them.
From a similar era was Debbie Gibson, who made a song and dance about the fact that she wrote all of her work and co produced it too. That was an achievement especially considering she was a teenager at the time. And also a possible an example of how writng songs on your own is not the best form of quality control!
They don't write their own music, they have a dedicated writer/producer (Sergio Pizzorno for the new line-up) who gives them songs. To look less manufactured, he's given a VIP prominence in the band.
Are you serious?
Serge has been in the band from day one. He is the lead guitarist.
They don't write their own music, they have a dedicated writer/producer (Sergio Pizzorno for the new line-up) who gives them songs. To look less manufactured, he's given a VIP prominence in the band.
Sergio Pizzorno and the lead singer Tom Meighan have known eachother since school. Sergio has been the main songwriter since former guitarist Christopher Karloff left in 2006. Only the first album has songwriting input from anyone other than Serge.
Sergio Pizzorno and the lead singer Tom Meighan have known eachother since school. Sergio has been the main songwriter since former guitarist Christopher Karloff left in 2006. Only the first album has songwriting input from anyone other than Serge.
Pfft, who has a name like "Sergio Pizzorno" in real life?!
It's clearly a fabrication by the record label to make us all think they're a "credible" band who "write" their own material!
Are we going to downgrade the talents of Ella Fitzgerald or Liza Minelli or Sinatra or Mariah Carey or Barbara Streisand, or Elvis, because they didn't actually write the songs?
I swear, Mariah does not get enough credit as a songwriter. Mariah has written all of her material, and produced the majority of it (they wouldn't really let her have that much input at the start of her career). There is actually a very interesting interview where she talks about how people don't acknowledge her as a song-writer because she's a diva, and how she thinks that there are numerous songwriting frauds in the industry.
(Beyoncé - write a word, claim a third).
They don't write their own music, they have a dedicated writer/producer (Sergio Pizzorno for the new line-up) who gives them songs. To look less manufactured, he's given a VIP prominence in the band.
Are you sure about that?
He's credited as guitarist, keyboard, backing vocals and programming. He's the only listed keyboard player, and was one of the founding members of the band.
Slightly different to the way you portray it?
Another suggestion of Siobhan Donaghy, her solo albums have her on the credits for every track, and I was always under the impression that she was heavily involved in the writing process.
I swear, Mariah does not get enough credit as a songwriter. Mariah has written all of her material, and produced the majority of it (they wouldn't really let her have that much input at the start of her career). There is actually a very interesting interview where she talks about how people don't acknowledge her as a song-writer because she's a diva, and how she thinks that there are numerous songwriting frauds in the industry.
(Beyoncé - write a word, claim a third).
I couldn't agree more about Mariah. I think Madonna is never given enough credit for her songwriting. The only time she was never fully in control with was with her first album. Even when William Orbit got the acclaim for Ray Of Light, that was a 50/50 partnership.
I couldn't agree more about Mariah. I think Madonna is never given enough credit for her songwriting. The only time she was never fully in control with was with her first album. Even when William Orbit got the acclaim for Ray Of Light, that was a 50/50 partnership.
Ray of Light
Writer(s): Madonna, William Orbit, Clive Muldoon, Dave Curtiss, Christine Leach
I was talking about big stars, of course there are tons of lightweights who write their own music. its when female stars get big that they end up having to co-write with proven song writers for many reasons, hence my comment that Taylor is maybe the only big female star who writes her own music.
Had to google Laura Marling, never heard of her.
That doesn't mean that she isn't talented. Check out some of her youtube videos. I adore her.
So anyone who hasn't sold millions of albums is a "lightweight"? Interesting.
And respectfully, you explicitly stated that Taylor is the only female singer-songwriter who actually writes her own songs, not the only "big star" to do so.
Exactly. Huge amounts of commercial success isn't everything.
I agree. I don't know where she gets the inspiration for her songwriting from!
There's definite influences from people like Joni Michell and even Bob Dylan...amongst many more folk songwriters from the past. You can tell though that she listens to rock, folk-rock and indie music too.
For me Amy Macdonald and Laura Marling are the two standout female songwriters from the UK out of the new breed.
There's definite influences from people like Joni Michell and even Bob Dylan...amongst many more folk songwriters from the past. You can tell though that she listens to rock, folk-rock and indie music too.
For me Amy Macdonald and Laura Marling are the two standout female songwriters from the UK out of the new breed.
Though I've never listened to these personally, I always thought they were influences of hers.
Because bands who right their own material are all performers.
Solo artists may colaborate with a producer or a writing team hired by their record company or management. The "solo" bit is thus compromised.
I'm talking specifically about the implication in this thread that if a songwriter doesn't write all their songs on their own they're not "proper" songwriters. I think this is rubbish, and my point is that no one holds bands to the same standard.
I don't think there's anything wrong with songwriters who are solo artists co-writing if it's genuinely a collaborative effort.
No one slags bands off for co-writing with each other. What's the difference.
Personally I'd be inclined to agree with this statement. Writing say the lyrics, and having other musicians polish the melody, is not a problem in my book.
Comments
There are 2 different types of songwriting.
Sometimes you'll see "words by X, music by Y" or words by X, music by X &Y"
In cases like these, a writer with have lyrics ready to add to a song, then a second writer will add the melody lines and chords, or it may work the other way round. In the second example, writer X has the words, then works together with writer Y on the melody. In both of these cases, lyrics and music are treated separately as far as credits and royalties go.
Then you get the case where 2 (or more) writers set out to write a song, melodies, chords, words etc. Then you'll see the song credited as "words and music by X & Y"
For royalty payments, no matter who did what, everything is split 50/50, even if writer X only added an "and" to the lyrics
"Speak Now" was written solely by her. Co-produced it as well.
tbh i dont think you can compare opera with pop...
i do think however that your perspective is stuck in the past, since the beatles pop stars HAVE had the ability to write/create their own music, so thats the last 50 years or so. i think pop demands it, youth culture since the beatles has been a rich and varied smorgasboard of fashion/style/genre and the most successful movements in pop has been youth driven. its been the youth of the day who have created the greatest movements , the fashion and music, so it goes without saying that they were also best placed to write the music they had created!
we are talking about pop music here...
Some songs are written or co-written, but most the singles aren't. Applies to all the line-ups. They're still considered singer-songwriters though.
They don't write their own music, they have a dedicated writer/producer (Sergio Pizzorno for the new line-up) who gives them songs. To look less manufactured, he's given a VIP prominence in the band.
On second thoughts, Gneiss, you are right. Prince was/is a great songwriter. His songs are still played and there certainly has been a queue of other artists wanting to use them.
From a similar era was Debbie Gibson, who made a song and dance about the fact that she wrote all of her work and co produced it too. That was an achievement especially considering she was a teenager at the time. And also a possible an example of how writng songs on your own is not the best form of quality control!
Are you serious?
Serge has been in the band from day one. He is the lead guitarist.
Paolos first album was full of co-writes but I'm pretty certain the second one was totally solo.
They've sold about 8million albums between them so I'd say that they're not obscure musicians!!!
Must be a Scottish thing! ;-)
Sergio Pizzorno and the lead singer Tom Meighan have known eachother since school. Sergio has been the main songwriter since former guitarist Christopher Karloff left in 2006. Only the first album has songwriting input from anyone other than Serge.
Pfft, who has a name like "Sergio Pizzorno" in real life?!
It's clearly a fabrication by the record label to make us all think they're a "credible" band who "write" their own material!
(Beyoncé - write a word, claim a third).
Are you sure about that?
He's credited as guitarist, keyboard, backing vocals and programming. He's the only listed keyboard player, and was one of the founding members of the band.
Slightly different to the way you portray it?
Another suggestion of Siobhan Donaghy, her solo albums have her on the credits for every track, and I was always under the impression that she was heavily involved in the writing process.
I couldn't agree more about Mariah. I think Madonna is never given enough credit for her songwriting. The only time she was never fully in control with was with her first album. Even when William Orbit got the acclaim for Ray Of Light, that was a 50/50 partnership.
Ray of Light
Writer(s): Madonna, William Orbit, Clive Muldoon, Dave Curtiss, Christine Leach
well not 50/50 actually
That doesn't mean that she isn't talented. Check out some of her youtube videos. I adore her.
Exactly. Huge amounts of commercial success isn't everything.
Not to mention her songwriting is incredible....helped by the fact she is also a very good guitarist.
I agree. I don't know where she gets the inspiration for her songwriting from!
There's definite influences from people like Joni Michell and even Bob Dylan...amongst many more folk songwriters from the past. You can tell though that she listens to rock, folk-rock and indie music too.
For me Amy Macdonald and Laura Marling are the two standout female songwriters from the UK out of the new breed.
Though I've never listened to these personally, I always thought they were influences of hers.
I will give Laura Marling a try as a few here are going on about her. I do like female acoustic style artists so will give her a listen.
No one slags bands off for co-writing with each other. What's the difference.
Because bands who right their own material are all performers.
Solo artists may colaborate with a producer or a writing team hired by their record company or management. The "solo" bit is thus compromised.
I'm talking specifically about the implication in this thread that if a songwriter doesn't write all their songs on their own they're not "proper" songwriters. I think this is rubbish, and my point is that no one holds bands to the same standard.
Personally I'd be inclined to agree with this statement. Writing say the lyrics, and having other musicians polish the melody, is not a problem in my book.