They are incapable of being friends in the first place, that's a human trait.
They may not betray you but that's because they don't have the capacity to think in abstract ways. So it's not loyalty or moral fibre, just simply lack of any alternative.
Same for all the rest.
It doesn't make any sense to bestow virtues on animals when they don't have the mental capacity to make any judgements about what's right or wrong.
It's also a surprisingly human centric way of thinking considering the people who spout this stuff say they are "animal lovers".
A dog doesn't "love" it's owner, it simply sees the owner as part of the dog's pack. A good owner will always ensure that they are the leader of the pack. It's a survival instinct that's evolved over hundreds of thousands of years which humans exploit.
So why the necessity to deny the dog's instincts and substitute a human's needs?
So little respect, that's what I can never understand. Respect the pets animal nature, that's the least we should do surely.
I've never owned a dog because I would never feel comfortable owning only one. I know dogs are pack animals so If I can't provide at least a small measure of what a dog needs by way of a pack, then best not to interfere at all. How can I, as a human, fulfill the need for a dog to live with other dogs?
sorry but you clearly know nothing about dogs, they are far more intelligent than you think.
I suppose unless you have had animals that you love you will not understand.
Recently our cat Maxi died and we were totally gutted. He was a part of this family for 10 years.
As for the animals/human charities I find that far more people donate to human causes and not to animal causes yet we inflict more pain and suffering on anaimls than other humans.
Personally I much prefer to give to animal causes as they are so cruely treated by people and for no reason. People think animals don't have feelings and/or dont matter. At least that is the way I see things.
Animals will love you unconditionally unlike people
I agree.
I think very few people would put the life of an animal above the life of a person and rightly so but that doesn't mean we should stop viewing animals as the living things they clearly are, with varied personalities of their own, as anyone who's had several much loved pets would be able to tell you.
Some people treat their cars better than they treat another livng creature and thats hardly getting your priorities straight either. I think we're generally conditioned by society to believe that an animal's life is almost worthless and it's only if you've had pleasant experiences with animals that you can think otherwise.
I think for many people, animals appeal to their 'mothering instincts' like small children do because there's an innocence about them, whereas adults are seen as the vindictive and 'me me me' creatures that we can be.
BTW - people who enjoy owning pets generally live longer than those who don't.
I love my cats and dog. They are my babies. They provide me with so much happiness and love. All they ask of me is that I spend a fortune on food for them, take them to the vet when they are poorly, look pleased when they bring dead things into the house, exercise them, play with them, provide them with furniture that they can destroy and love them.
I don't have animals and have never really bonded with them to the extent that I care that much about ones I have had.
Yet some people think they are part of their families, donate to animal charities and not human ones, generally like them better than people...
I don't understand and am considered heartless I think
Anyone feel the same?
I don't think anyone would really put the life of an animal before a human being.
Animals are pretty defenseless when it comes to being around humans so they need to be cared for, so i can understand people who donate to help them.
There are some people who I dislike that much I would put an animal before, but generally I view humans as much more "important" than animals.
I can only think that when someone puts all humans beneath animals they have experienced a lot of ill treatment from fellow human beings which has made them view the whole species negatively, as I don't really think it's natural to view animals as more "important". For example, there is a fire in a house with a dog and a child in, you go in the house to try and save someone, who do you try and save first the child or the dog? I think it would be deplorable to not make every effort to save the child before saving the dog.
I don't think it's natural either but I can see why some people do love animals more.
Domestic animals don't answer back and rely on humans to feed them. Some people like that power.
I believe that there are some people who would save the dog first.
Not me. My experience of dogs is clouded and I am quite wary of them due to witnessing a dog fight when I was a child and they both ripped each other to bits.
My grouch is with the extremely selfish multiple dog owners who expect neighbours to put up with smell, dirt, noise and fear.
hi, my first post on here. And as you can tell from my username, i love my dog :-)
I found my molly in a river drowning when she was four weeks old, and i instantly fell in love with her. And now, five years on i still feel the same. When i lost my home i shared with my (now ex) bf, she went to his cousins house to stay, she ran away and went back to the house we used to live in. And in the five years i've had her i've gone through a lot of bad things, and she has been the one constant. She knows when i'm sad and gives me a cuddle, she's funny and clever. I wouldn't be without her.
I am very maternal towards her, but why would't i be? She needs feeding, exersize, cleaning, training. Yeah so to me, she is like my child. And i'm not mental, depressed or anything. And i don't value anyones life over my dogs. I just don't value anyones life over my dog. And he you think that a dogs love is only 'cupboard' love, you only have to read the story about lance corpral liam tasker and his dog theo.
Ps sorry about the structure of this post, i'm doing this off my mobile :-)
Not that I have to justify myself to anyone or answer your questions but ...
a) you've chosen a ridiciculously extreme (and hypothetical) scenario
b) I can't say I would even have the guts to go into a fire if i was faced with the likelihood that I was the only one that could help
c) if it did could come to that then I would try and save the child if I could
but again its an unlikely scenario so if i ever did save my own pet 1st in any other situation, think I am deplorable if you want - I'm not really fussed.
Well-said. The thing is I am petrified of fire and doubt that I would enter a burning house for any stranger child or not but I might to save my pet as I have a duty of care towards it. If you argue that Human life is more important than animal (which I don't agree with its just human arrogance -all life is precious), why is a child's life placed that of any other human by many?
There are some people who I dislike that much I would put an animal before, but generally I view humans as much more "important" than animals.
I can only think that when someone puts all humans beneath animals they have experienced a lot of ill treatment from fellow human beings which has made them view the whole species negatively, as I don't really think it's natural to view animals as more "important". For example, there is a fire in a house with a dog and a child in, you go in the house to try and save someone, who do you try and save first the child or the dog? I think it would be deplorable to not make every effort to save the child before saving the dog.
If it's a case of my dog or someone else's child, I'm going to save the dog. My family comes first, and he's one of my family. Sue me.
I don't think anyone would really put the life of an animal before a human being.
Animals are pretty defenseless when it comes to being around humans so they need to be cared for, so i can understand people who donate to help them.
I don't agree it very much depends on what human being and what animal.
If it's a case of my dog or someone else's child, I'm going to save the dog. My family comes first, and he's one of my family. Sue me.
I'd do the same as I have a duty of care towards the dog and not towards the child and I am not someone who thinks children are so precious it makes no difference to me if the person was an adult or child - and I have not been badly treated by people anymore than someone else my age. I have loads of friends and a happy marriage and my husband says he would save our dog first too because he's family.
The the reason for the commas is I am not convinced about their love for animals it is more like a hatred of humans that has taken refuge in a glorifying of dumb beasts.
'Dumb beasts'.:rolleyes: You're never going to understand, are you? You clearly don't value animal life.
Humans do majorly suck alot of the time but they are in a different league to the rest of the things on this planet. i don't want to associate with someone who thinks a cat is more important than me!!
Good. Because I wouldn't want to associate with anyone who arrogantly assumes that humans matter more than anything else on this planet.
If it's a case of my dog or someone else's child, I'm going to save the dog. My family comes first, and he's one of my family. Sue me.
I'd save another person's child over my own dog, because I'm able to differentiate the emotional impact of losing a pet dog to somebody losing their own flesh and blood. There's no real comparison.
I have to say I find most "animal lovers" I come across pretty pathetically minded and completely ignorant about the state of nature.
It's like they have read to many Beatrix Potter Books
I was shocked by the comments on the video in this link highlighting the plight of AIDs victims including:
"I was searching animal cruelty and came up with this which i hardly care about not trying to be mean but humans r over populated so it wouldn't matter"
I'm sure you'll find the feeling is mutual, if you're going around making idiotic aspersions like that. Most animal lovers also care about human beings, just like the rest of society. There may be some misanthropes - again, just like the rest of society.
They are incapable of being friends in the first place, that's a human trait.
They may not betray you but that's because they don't have the capacity to think in abstract ways. So it's not loyalty or moral fibre, just simply lack of any alternative.
Same for all the rest.
It doesn't make any sense to bestow virtues on animals when they don't have the mental capacity to make any judgements about what's right or wrong.
It's also a surprisingly human centric way of thinking considering the people who spout this stuff say they are "animal lovers".
A dog doesn't "love" it's owner, it simply sees the owner as part of the dog's pack. A good owner will always ensure that they are the leader of the pack. It's a survival instinct that's evolved over hundreds of thousands of years which humans exploit.
So why the necessity to deny the dog's instincts and substitute a human's needs?
So little respect, that's what I can never understand. Respect the pets animal nature, that's the least we should do surely.
I've never owned a dog because I would never feel comfortable owning only one. I know dogs are pack animals so If I can't provide at least a small measure of what a dog needs by way of a pack, then best not to interfere at all. How can I, as a human, fulfill the need for a dog to live with other dogs?
Excellent post, but I fear you will be at best ignored.
if i met someone who did not like animals i would not like them. I have found those people to be unlikeable.
When you say 'don't like animals' do you mean that they don't share your love of animals?
Is it not possible to love nature in general without bestowing human emotion on a pet?
What I can't understand is the feeling animals are nicer than humans. Maybe it applies to a domesticated pet, but most animals do not behave that well. They kill, they fight, they eat each other. It really is a jungle out there!
I think the biggest problem facing the planet is that humans haven't evolved enough. We're still guilty of animal behaviour. I could perhaps understanding the logic of valuing humans and animals the same on the basis we're both as "evil" as each other.
Excellent post, but I fear you will be at best ignored.
It's a supercilious post which fails to recognise that dog lovers are perfectly aware of the limitations of animal behaviour, and those limitations are part of why they love them in the first place.
Even if dogs see humans as part of their pack (debatable), that does not preclude love for their owner. What do you think human familial love is, if not an inclination evolved over millennia to ensure reproduction is worthwhile and one's genes are passed on? Being cognisant of that fact does not in any way diminish familial love, so why should awareness of a dog's vicarious pack love be any different?
My boxer dog, Baxter, is my best friend and confidante.
He's a big warm lump to snuggle up to on the sofa when it's cold.
He cheers me up when I'm low and forgives me when I'm moody.
He makes me get up and go out on days when I just want to hide.
He doesn't judge me for being fat or unemployed or ugly.
He introduces me to lots of new people when we're out and about so I dont' feel so isolated.
Unlike humans, he's straightforward and honest and I don't get tied up in knots trying to figure out what he wants (it's usually just a bonio).
Everyday he makes me smile.
I hope people are aware that you are breaking the law if you rescue a dog and let a human die.
Personally I dislike animals. They can't think or communicate like we do. I will never know when someone's dog is going to decide that there's something about me provoking him to violence.
Humans can be violent, too, but I find them much easier to read and fight. No teeth or claws. They fight in a predictable human way.
I'd save another person's child over my own dog, because I'm able to differentiate the emotional impact of losing a pet dog to somebody losing their own flesh and blood. There's no real comparison.
You might e able to logically diferentiate but being in that situation is entirely different. I have been life and death situations and your logical brain switches off and your basic survival instinct kicks in most people do not think as they normally do if they aren't trained or exceptional. That's right as much as everone loves to think they have an inner hero - very few do because it goes against our natural survival instinct. You are far more likely to be able to override that instinct for someone you love than for a stranger. Because in all truth a lot of emotion switches off as you can't cope with thinking aout people dying around you and to cope many people feel nothing till later, which is why I still have PTSD and received intensive therapy. I know that I care and love my dog and that emotion might be strong enough to save him - might but I also know that it is very unlikely that I would save any stranger child or not because I have no emotional connection to them.
However logical you think it might be to save someone for whatever reason unless you have been in certain situations you have no idea how you would act. Before I would have said of course I'd save the child but since I know I'd save what and who I had an emotional connection too - that's if I had sufficient courage.
When you say 'don't like animals' do you mean that they don't share your love of animals?
Is it not possible to love nature in general without bestowing human emotion on a pet?
People who express a dislike of animals.
I would also include those who pull away from dogs in case they lick them for they fear (wrongly) that they will catch some disease.
Comments
Lovely dog, shame His lipsticks out for the photo. :eek:
sorry but you clearly know nothing about dogs, they are far more intelligent than you think.
I agree.
I think very few people would put the life of an animal above the life of a person and rightly so but that doesn't mean we should stop viewing animals as the living things they clearly are, with varied personalities of their own, as anyone who's had several much loved pets would be able to tell you.
Some people treat their cars better than they treat another livng creature and thats hardly getting your priorities straight either. I think we're generally conditioned by society to believe that an animal's life is almost worthless and it's only if you've had pleasant experiences with animals that you can think otherwise.
I think for many people, animals appeal to their 'mothering instincts' like small children do because there's an innocence about them, whereas adults are seen as the vindictive and 'me me me' creatures that we can be.
BTW - people who enjoy owning pets generally live longer than those who don't.
I don't think anyone would really put the life of an animal before a human being.
Animals are pretty defenseless when it comes to being around humans so they need to be cared for, so i can understand people who donate to help them.
I don't think it's natural either but I can see why some people do love animals more.
Domestic animals don't answer back and rely on humans to feed them. Some people like that power.
I believe that there are some people who would save the dog first.
Not me. My experience of dogs is clouded and I am quite wary of them due to witnessing a dog fight when I was a child and they both ripped each other to bits.
My grouch is with the extremely selfish multiple dog owners who expect neighbours to put up with smell, dirt, noise and fear.
I found my molly in a river drowning when she was four weeks old, and i instantly fell in love with her. And now, five years on i still feel the same. When i lost my home i shared with my (now ex) bf, she went to his cousins house to stay, she ran away and went back to the house we used to live in. And in the five years i've had her i've gone through a lot of bad things, and she has been the one constant. She knows when i'm sad and gives me a cuddle, she's funny and clever. I wouldn't be without her.
I am very maternal towards her, but why would't i be? She needs feeding, exersize, cleaning, training. Yeah so to me, she is like my child. And i'm not mental, depressed or anything. And i don't value anyones life over my dogs. I just don't value anyones life over my dog. And he you think that a dogs love is only 'cupboard' love, you only have to read the story about lance corpral liam tasker and his dog theo.
Ps sorry about the structure of this post, i'm doing this off my mobile :-)
Well-said. The thing is I am petrified of fire and doubt that I would enter a burning house for any stranger child or not but I might to save my pet as I have a duty of care towards it. If you argue that Human life is more important than animal (which I don't agree with its just human arrogance -all life is precious), why is a child's life placed that of any other human by many?
A life is a life. I fail to see why one species of animal-which is all that humans are-is inherently more valuable than another.
If it's a case of my dog or someone else's child, I'm going to save the dog. My family comes first, and he's one of my family. Sue me.
I don't agree it very much depends on what human being and what animal.
I dumped a boyfriend because of this I could never be with people who don't like animals.
I'd do the same as I have a duty of care towards the dog and not towards the child and I am not someone who thinks children are so precious it makes no difference to me if the person was an adult or child - and I have not been badly treated by people anymore than someone else my age. I have loads of friends and a happy marriage and my husband says he would save our dog first too because he's family.
Good. Because I wouldn't want to associate with anyone who arrogantly assumes that humans matter more than anything else on this planet.
I'd save another person's child over my own dog, because I'm able to differentiate the emotional impact of losing a pet dog to somebody losing their own flesh and blood. There's no real comparison.
I'm sure you'll find the feeling is mutual, if you're going around making idiotic aspersions like that. Most animal lovers also care about human beings, just like the rest of society. There may be some misanthropes - again, just like the rest of society.
Excellent post, but I fear you will be at best ignored.
When you say 'don't like animals' do you mean that they don't share your love of animals?
Is it not possible to love nature in general without bestowing human emotion on a pet?
I think the biggest problem facing the planet is that humans haven't evolved enough. We're still guilty of animal behaviour. I could perhaps understanding the logic of valuing humans and animals the same on the basis we're both as "evil" as each other.
It's a supercilious post which fails to recognise that dog lovers are perfectly aware of the limitations of animal behaviour, and those limitations are part of why they love them in the first place.
Even if dogs see humans as part of their pack (debatable), that does not preclude love for their owner. What do you think human familial love is, if not an inclination evolved over millennia to ensure reproduction is worthwhile and one's genes are passed on? Being cognisant of that fact does not in any way diminish familial love, so why should awareness of a dog's vicarious pack love be any different?
He's a big warm lump to snuggle up to on the sofa when it's cold.
He cheers me up when I'm low and forgives me when I'm moody.
He makes me get up and go out on days when I just want to hide.
He doesn't judge me for being fat or unemployed or ugly.
He introduces me to lots of new people when we're out and about so I dont' feel so isolated.
Unlike humans, he's straightforward and honest and I don't get tied up in knots trying to figure out what he wants (it's usually just a bonio).
Everyday he makes me smile.
Personally I dislike animals. They can't think or communicate like we do. I will never know when someone's dog is going to decide that there's something about me provoking him to violence.
Humans can be violent, too, but I find them much easier to read and fight. No teeth or claws. They fight in a predictable human way.
You might e able to logically diferentiate but being in that situation is entirely different. I have been life and death situations and your logical brain switches off and your basic survival instinct kicks in most people do not think as they normally do if they aren't trained or exceptional. That's right as much as everone loves to think they have an inner hero - very few do because it goes against our natural survival instinct. You are far more likely to be able to override that instinct for someone you love than for a stranger. Because in all truth a lot of emotion switches off as you can't cope with thinking aout people dying around you and to cope many people feel nothing till later, which is why I still have PTSD and received intensive therapy. I know that I care and love my dog and that emotion might be strong enough to save him - might but I also know that it is very unlikely that I would save any stranger child or not because I have no emotional connection to them.
However logical you think it might be to save someone for whatever reason unless you have been in certain situations you have no idea how you would act. Before I would have said of course I'd save the child but since I know I'd save what and who I had an emotional connection too - that's if I had sufficient courage.
People who express a dislike of animals.
I would also include those who pull away from dogs in case they lick them for they fear (wrongly) that they will catch some disease.