You know, Hitler became popular and came to power during the 30s depression as the masses in Germany looked for something to the alternative that weren't delivering because of the economic mess they were in akin to today's economic mess, we all know what happened next ;-)
So basically, we need to develop a New British Empire, which would require a milltarised state.
well after that rant I can only conclude you don't agree with the process of democracy or freedom of speech:(. So are you saying we should vote for Con Lab Lib MEP's who just say yes to everything? There are literally tons of videos of UKIP MEP's speaking out for this country. I am seeing very little evidence of any other party doing the same. With the likely rise of euro sceptic parties from other countries these 'petty' UKIP 'No' votes (as you put it) may tip the balance and help avoid other unnecessary EU legislation being imposed.
They vote down all EU laws as a point of principle. That's the whole point cos they believe UK laws should be set by the UK parliament elected by UK people. The UK already has laws opposing the ivory trade and we don't need duplicates.
There are 700 Euro MPs and less than 80 Brits so you really think the LibLabCons voting the ALDE/Socialist/ECR line as determined by the Tories fringe partners make the slightest difference. Bar Dan Hannan can anyone actually name a non UKIP UK MEP. Faceless, nameless and unrecognisable whipped fodder!
What I want to see is MEPs who not only talk and talk, but walk the walk.
Basically UKIP is good about making speeches and the like, but rather than moan about the EU and just vote against everything it does for the sake of it, why not simply offer solutions and fight tooth and nail for them.
In other words I don't want MEP's who just accept the status quo nor those who jsut moan about it...
Also the polls indicate even with UKIP’s gains, EFD (UKIP’s block) will either gain slightly or even decline, now the Independents will massively increase in size (FN in France for example, along with other similar parties not in EFD), but even if they all join EFD, they still fail overturn EPP, S&D and other groups, even if they all voted the same (which is not likely)
You know, Hitler became popular and came to power during the 30s depression as the masses in Germany looked for something to the alternative that weren't delivering because of the economic mess they were in akin to today's economic mess, we all know what happened next ;-)
Nice one, can you tell me any more juicy titbits about ukip policy as I really hadn't realised that ukip are looking for a European land grab.
It seems I need reeducating what UKIP are all about and you look perfect to teach me.
Nice one, can you tell me any more juicy titbits about ukip policy as I really hadn't realised that ukip are looking for a European land grab.
It seems I need reeducating what UKIP are all about and you look perfect to teach me.
It does raise the question, how are we going to bring Britain back to the "glory days" and its "poltical independence", basically a return to Britain becoming a major economic, milltary and poltical superpower with major multi-national businesses and the worlds largest empire.
The question is how can it be done? Also before you start do not say the solution to this issue is "less immgrants" and "leaving the EU", there needs to be more than just that...
It does raise the question, how are we going to bring Britain back to the "glory days" and its "poltical independence", basically a return to Britain becoming a major economic, milltary and poltical superpower with major multi-national businesses and the worlds largest empire.
The question is how can it be done? Also before you start do not say the solution to this issue is "less immgrants" and "leaving the EU", there needs to be more than just that...
Britain still is a major economic power, britain still spends one of the most amounts on military and due to these factors, we still are politically powerful.
I want one now to answer the question once and for all…
I think most of us do, the country is in a permanent state of limbo.
I personaly want out of the EU, but if a referendum didn't go the way I wanted I would accept it and move on like most people will.
The current situation benefits nobody, its time to sort it out one way or the other.
Britain still is a major economic power, britain still spends one of the most amounts on military and due to these factors, we still are politically powerful.
Britain is now the 8th largest, which is not enough to be considered a "major economic power", rather we are a "reletively major economic power"
Also our milltary spending and number is declineing dramtically.
Not only but we might have a UNSC veto, but only because we won WW2, lastly it has been made clear that since WW2, we are a vassal state of America, not a bad thing, but we are no longer a major power, one which was world leading and has only 1 or 2 rivals...
I think most of us do, the country is in a permanent state of limbo.
I personaly want out of the EU, but if a referendum didn't go the way I wanted I would accept it and move on like most people will.
The current situation benefits nobody, its time to sort it out one way or the other.
I agree, we need to decide which direction to take and stick to it because we feel it is the best thing we can do, but we need to do it now and end this uncetain outlook...
Britain is now the 8th largest, which is not enough to be considered a "major economic power", rather we are a "reletively major economic power"
Also our milltary spending and number is declineing dramtically.
Not only but we might have a UNSC veto, but only because we won WW2, lastly it has been made clear that since WW2, we are a vassal state of America, not a bad thing, but we are no longer a major power, one which was world leading and has only 1 or 2 rivals...
There are over 200 countries in the world outside the EU. How do any of them cope?:D
The EU isn't the answer it's what is holding us back from exploiting what the other 90 per cent of the world has to offer.
On the topic on "making Britain a superpower", considering that bhe has shown interest in supporting Russia over the EU and Americas, perhaps we should team up with Russia and form the "Anglo-Euasian Federation, reannexing Commonwealth/Former British Colonies as well as America and China (and what Russia considers to be their domain"), maybe as can add Korea and Iran as well...
There are over 200 countries in the world outside the EU. How do any of them cope?:D
I will tell you how they cope, they come to accept that they have to follow the policy and interests of (more or less) either America or Russia/China. Britain will sadly be no different, EU member or not...
ML11 however has just insinuated to me that Farage is Hitler and we all know what happened next, i.e. a World War.
It was a bit harsh, Farage is no Hitler. However it is the case that both rose from the fact the people did not like the status quo, Hitler did have a detailed plan but was insane to say the least (a German Nationalist who only wanted a end to the punishment of the ToV and Austria and German Territory taken after WW1 to be unified with Germany would have been better).
Nigel is not insane, but there seems to be a lack of plan for where to take the UK apart from leaving the EU.
If we are going to win the "real" battle (a vote on the matter), we need less dicredited people like Clegg...
It was a bit harsh, Farage is no Hitler. However it is the case that both rose from the fact the people did not like the status quo, Hitler did have a detailed plan but was insane to say the least (a German Nationalist who only wanted a end to the punishment of the ToV and Austria and German Territory taken after WW1 to be unified with Germany would have been better).
Nigel is not insane, but there seems to be a lack of plan for where to take the UK apart from leaving the EU.
Not really...
Well whoever puts their house in order will win this vote...
It would be better to say "UKIP do not have the right solutions and here is why..."
Thank you for your sanity, it is a pleasure to debate with you.
Now, why on earth would I want to be in the EU? ;-);-);-):D
Now, why on earth would I want to be in the EU? ;-);-);-):D
The question should be, why Britain needs to join up with other nations to form Superpowers.
You have to understand that the world as we know is globalised economically, however it is doninated by 2 power blocks, 1 lead by America and other lead by China/Russia.
You also have to understand that while globalisation has allowed the developing world to develop and for increased international trade and understanding, it has also created a race to bottom (for people like us) and boosted the power and wealth of the elite, not helped by Free-Market-Capitalism and Neo-Liberal policies.
When you add the treat from Islamism and the conflect with China and Russia, do deal with this globalised world we need to come together to form stonger nations that can become major superpowers.
This would allow the Islamist threat to be delt with, China and Russia to be contained and for global standards when it comes to tax and workers rights, thus ending the driving down of living standards not helped by migration.
Britain also need to accept that it is no longer a world power and yet also unite with others to become one.
Now I have 2 options, eithe Unite with the Anglosphere:
UKIP's rise should have woken the main parties up to some of the real concerns of the British public with regards to immigration and Europe having to much control over us but instead Clegg thought that he could take Farrage on head to head and got shown up as being rather ignorant to what the general public seemed to be thinking.
I am sure that a lot of UKIP voters feel they have very little alternative but to vote UKIP as the main parties are not listening.
For years the papers and TV ignored or belittled Farrage but he has kept going and shown that he has backing from the public, people should be asking more questions on the UKIP policies rather than simply trying to label them as racists and dismiss their arguments.
As I keep saying things I will also point out again that if their candidates are anything like the ones in 2009 quite a few will be landowners receiving CAP checks from the EU.
And if they win what then? They enjoy the EU gravy train they claim to despise. Even if UKIP won all 73 UK MEP seats they would not have the power to make the UK have a referendum on if to leave the EU which is the stated purpose of their party. That power resides in the UK parliment, and Farage for one is not interested in standing for the UK parliament.
UKIP are being hypocritical by accepting money from the EU, that would be like Britain accepting money from the USSR in the Cold War, along with exposing that they are just as greedy as the Tories they are inspired from (from the Thatcher era anyway)
Or rather, it has been promoted by idiots, also moaning about leaving makes it easy to avoid inconvenient truths both left and right…
To defend it, you have to end up mentioning bureaucracy and anti democracy and unelected bureaucrats. A lot of people don't like that and for me that is when the pro EU argument falls apart.
Who would possibly support that? And who would defend that 75% of our laws come from Brussels?
So a Lib/Lab coalition at the next election then and no referendum. The irony of course is that UKIP doing well is the one way to stop an EU referendum as it reduces the chances of a Conservative victory and Labour and Libs will not go for an EU vote.
To defend it, you have to end up mentioning bureaucracy and anti democracy and unelected bureaucrats. A lot of people don't like that and for me that is when the pro EU argument falls apart.
Who would possibly support that? And who would defend that 75% of our laws come from Brussels?
Stange isn't it then that it is the anti europeans who has stood most in the way of proper democratic reform.
Comments
So basically, we need to develop a New British Empire, which would require a milltarised state.
What areas shall we look for colonies?
What I want to see is MEPs who not only talk and talk, but walk the walk.
Basically UKIP is good about making speeches and the like, but rather than moan about the EU and just vote against everything it does for the sake of it, why not simply offer solutions and fight tooth and nail for them.
In other words I don't want MEP's who just accept the status quo nor those who jsut moan about it...
Also the polls indicate even with UKIP’s gains, EFD (UKIP’s block) will either gain slightly or even decline, now the Independents will massively increase in size (FN in France for example, along with other similar parties not in EFD), but even if they all join EFD, they still fail overturn EPP, S&D and other groups, even if they all voted the same (which is not likely)
I want one now to answer the question once and for all…
Nice one, can you tell me any more juicy titbits about ukip policy as I really hadn't realised that ukip are looking for a European land grab.
It seems I need reeducating what UKIP are all about and you look perfect to teach me.
It does raise the question, how are we going to bring Britain back to the "glory days" and its "poltical independence", basically a return to Britain becoming a major economic, milltary and poltical superpower with major multi-national businesses and the worlds largest empire.
The question is how can it be done? Also before you start do not say the solution to this issue is "less immgrants" and "leaving the EU", there needs to be more than just that...
The previous poster does not realise the damage he does to his cause.
Britain still is a major economic power, britain still spends one of the most amounts on military and due to these factors, we still are politically powerful.
I think most of us do, the country is in a permanent state of limbo.
I personaly want out of the EU, but if a referendum didn't go the way I wanted I would accept it and move on like most people will.
The current situation benefits nobody, its time to sort it out one way or the other.
Who are you on about?
Britain is now the 8th largest, which is not enough to be considered a "major economic power", rather we are a "reletively major economic power"
Also our milltary spending and number is declineing dramtically.
Not only but we might have a UNSC veto, but only because we won WW2, lastly it has been made clear that since WW2, we are a vassal state of America, not a bad thing, but we are no longer a major power, one which was world leading and has only 1 or 2 rivals...
I agree, we need to decide which direction to take and stick to it because we feel it is the best thing we can do, but we need to do it now and end this uncetain outlook...
Yes apparently voting for UKIP will lead to the Nazis running Europe, world war 3, concentration camps and genocide. I think I've seen it all now!
Presumably Canada, Australia and New Zealand are heading the same way as their policies on immigration are precisely the same as UKIPs.
There are over 200 countries in the world outside the EU. How do any of them cope?:D
The EU isn't the answer it's what is holding us back from exploiting what the other 90 per cent of the world has to offer.
Not that it will happen...
Not you, you are a credit to the pro EU side on this forum.
You spotted with myself that Nick Clegg representing the pro EU side of the establishment was a disaster waiting to happen, we were both proved right.
ML11 however has just insinuated to me that Farage is Hitler and we all know what happened next, i.e. a World War.
Is this a clever way to counteract the UKIP message?
This is the problem you have, rather than the loonies being on the UKIP side it seem you have plenty on your side to deal with too.
I would suggest that telling me we are on the verge of world war 3 if I dare vote for Farage is about as counter productive as it is possible to get.
I will tell you how they cope, they come to accept that they have to follow the policy and interests of (more or less) either America or Russia/China. Britain will sadly be no different, EU member or not...
Explain why you have such a view?
Well thank you for that complement! ;-)
If we are going to win the "real" battle (a vote on the matter), we need less dicredited people like Clegg...
It was a bit harsh, Farage is no Hitler. However it is the case that both rose from the fact the people did not like the status quo, Hitler did have a detailed plan but was insane to say the least (a German Nationalist who only wanted a end to the punishment of the ToV and Austria and German Territory taken after WW1 to be unified with Germany would have been better).
Nigel is not insane, but there seems to be a lack of plan for where to take the UK apart from leaving the EU.
Not really...
Well whoever puts their house in order will win this vote...
It would be better to say "UKIP do not have the right solutions and here is why..."
Thank you for your sanity, it is a pleasure to debate with you.
Now, why on earth would I want to be in the EU? ;-);-);-):D
Your Welcome! ;-)
The question should be, why Britain needs to join up with other nations to form Superpowers.
You have to understand that the world as we know is globalised economically, however it is doninated by 2 power blocks, 1 lead by America and other lead by China/Russia.
You also have to understand that while globalisation has allowed the developing world to develop and for increased international trade and understanding, it has also created a race to bottom (for people like us) and boosted the power and wealth of the elite, not helped by Free-Market-Capitalism and Neo-Liberal policies.
When you add the treat from Islamism and the conflect with China and Russia, do deal with this globalised world we need to come together to form stonger nations that can become major superpowers.
This would allow the Islamist threat to be delt with, China and Russia to be contained and for global standards when it comes to tax and workers rights, thus ending the driving down of living standards not helped by migration.
Britain also need to accept that it is no longer a world power and yet also unite with others to become one.
Now I have 2 options, eithe Unite with the Anglosphere:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Commonwealth_and_Anglosphere.svg
Or Unite within Europe
Now the first one would be a good option for the UK, but it will be not easy to do, it would require major economic and poltical reforms as well...
The Second one is easier due to our closeness and interests in Europe as well as the EU being there.
We need to deicide which is the better option.
PS: Considering that British and American Conservatives (Nigel included) are quite keen on Russia, perhaps we should include the Russiansphere as well
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Soviet_empire_1960.png
Maybe we could form a Anglo-Eusian Federation to dominate the world!
Look at the post I was replying to
I am sure that a lot of UKIP voters feel they have very little alternative but to vote UKIP as the main parties are not listening.
For years the papers and TV ignored or belittled Farrage but he has kept going and shown that he has backing from the public, people should be asking more questions on the UKIP policies rather than simply trying to label them as racists and dismiss their arguments.
UKIP are being hypocritical by accepting money from the EU, that would be like Britain accepting money from the USSR in the Cold War, along with exposing that they are just as greedy as the Tories they are inspired from (from the Thatcher era anyway)
Who would possibly support that? And who would defend that 75% of our laws come from Brussels?
So a Lib/Lab coalition at the next election then and no referendum. The irony of course is that UKIP doing well is the one way to stop an EU referendum as it reduces the chances of a Conservative victory and Labour and Libs will not go for an EU vote.
Stange isn't it then that it is the anti europeans who has stood most in the way of proper democratic reform.