.............I disagree that racism is ever justified as the fact of being justified means that it is not racism.
If it were justified then it wouldn't be irrational. Would it?
I can envisage situations where someone might be racist because of an incident with one or two people, in the past, which deeply affected them. Whether such a thing would justify racism is a different matter completely.
The best I can say is that there might be a set of circumstances which justified racism, but they would be extremely rare.
Dud he say that it gave him more validity. He is raising it as it is relevant as it is the context relating to his viewpoint.
More valid? Using a fictitious God as an excuse for any view has NO validity unless the person can validate their God first.
I know it's their whole gameplan to state like a fact what they merely think is reality and then carry straight on from that deeply flawed viewpoint without blinking, but they have no validity whatsoever.
So in the end, rather pointless posting what they think as it's is meaningless. When some of them then take action based on such nonsense and try and impose that nonsense on everyone, then that can not and should not be tolerated ever!
Or in black and white: Using a fictitious God as an excuse to stop people's equality is an invalid argument. (Not to mention outright disgusting!)
If it were justified then it wouldn't be irrational. Would it?
I can envisage situations where someone might be racist because of an incident with one or two people, in the past, which deeply affected them. Whether such a thing would justify racism is a different matter completely.
The best I can say is that there might be a set of circumstances which justified racism, but they would be extremely rare.
If it were justified it wouldn't be racism by definition.
If it was racism it would not be justified. Racism may be to a degree understandable because of past experience but that wouldn't make it justifiable.
More valid? Using a fictitious God as an excuse for any view has NO validity unless the person can validate their God first.
I know it's their whole gameplan to state like a fact what they merely think is reality and then carry straight on from that deeply flawed viewpoint without blinking, but they have no validity whatsoever.
So in the end, rather pointless posting what they think as it's is meaningless. When some of them then take action based on such nonsense and try and impose that nonsense on everyone, then that can not and should not be tolerated ever!
Or in black and white: Using a fictitious God as an excuse to stop people's equality is an invalid argument. (Not to mention outright disgusting!)
He doesn't have to validate his God. He didn't say that his believes made his view more valid that anyone else which makes your asking him why he thought it did rather strange.
Repeatedly posting what we think is what we are allowed to do on a discussion forum.
He doesn't have to validate his God. He didn't say that his believes made his view more valid that anyone else which makes your asking him why he thought it did rather strange.
Repeatedly posting what we think is what we are allowed to do on a discussion forum.
That's how the homophobes operate, they think their god overrules everyone and everything else, they don't need facts, logic or rationality when they have a bible
Hmmmm 'The sanctity of marriage? considering 50% of marriages fail and the majority of those failures are due to infidelity that argument does not stand up. If the gays wanna get married more fool them.
That's how the homophobes operate, they think their god overrules everyone and everything else, they don't need facts, logic or rationality when they have a bible
Maybe, like me ,they believe that God exists and that the Bible is logical and rational.
Maybe, like me ,they believe that God exists and that the Bible is logical and rational.
Then if you think that you can back it up then or not be taken seriously. Which is what is happening.
Religion has had more than enough time to come up with the goods and failed to do so.
People are getting sick of being told that how they are and what they do is an abomination and that just because of what someone thinks in their head, they should not have equal rights.
Religion has a lot to answer for and people will not take not answering for an answer.
First off I'm a heterosexual guy and I know this has probably been done to death on this site but after a lively debate with a couple uni mates earlier I just wanted to go into 3 types of people against gay marriage.
Typically when one is making an indepth inquisition into the validity of someone else’s intrinsic ideology, the dissertation should be done with grandiloquence, intellectual consideration and a spirit open to intelligent discourse. The PROBLEM with this debate is that the anti-gay marriage people’s argument is so devoid of base logic, I can’t help but abandon any attempt at eloquence and just write this in ultra-layman's terms: If you have a problem with same-sex marriage you are STUPID.
I would like to take a minute to address all of you – and let you know that you should be banned from attempting to make an intellectual point in public ever again. Especially:
1) The sanctity of marriage idiots
These people’s argument is that allowing gay-people to get married would “devalue the sanctity of marriage” which is one of the most misused arguments I’ve ever heard in my LIFE. The ONLY time I ever hear this brought up is around Gay Marriage – but I remember being in the U.S and seeing: Who Wants To Marry A Millionaire or Who Wants To Marry A Midget, as long as everyone was straight, it was OK to turn marriage into a carnival sideshow. You have NO credible argument – you are just a musty bastard POSING as a righteous figure to cover up your homophobia.
2) The badman crowd
Being from the Caribbean myself this saddens me, there are many lovely islands and I advise any of you to go wherever and see for yourself, however as with everywhere there are some backward people “Battybwoy ah get married? Gunshot Fi dem!” If you've uttered this phrase you are a damn MORON. These will be the same guys with 6 kids by 5 women who feel like THEY are in some position to take MORAL authority over people who want nothing more than to have their genuine love for another person recognised just like everyone else. What’s “gay” is concerning yourself so deeply with what another man does in the privacy of his bedroom, that you feel the need to espouse your ignorance to all your 'bredgins' – right before you run a train on some hoodrat in the same basement like THAT’S the pinnacle of heterosexuality!
3) The religious zealots
Ah, you ultra religious looseballs never cease to amaze me with your extreme levels of HYPOCRISY & IGNORANCE. Stop citing Leviticus 20:13 and all that BS, PLEASE. Do you wanna know why you should NEVER cite the bible as a tool for making a point against gay marriage? Because it’s the same book that has been used [in correct context I might add] to promote slavery, racism and misogyny. Are you REALLY going to skim to the “man shouldn’t lie with another man” part and SKIP over the rest of the BULLSH*T in the other pages? You would be a FOOL to do that.
And the WORST part is that Religious people are starting to SULK and act like THEY are the ones being oppressed with society becoming more “gay-friendly” but they are missing the CRUX of the issue. Regardless of your religious sect, all you IDIOTS can get married to the person you love and live the life you always envisioned with them – in the VAST majority of places in this world, gay people can NOT. The fact that you would even try to frame yourselves as the UNDERDOGS in this fight of basic and decent RIGHTS is DISGUSTING.
.... and breathe, rant over and thanks for your time (if you managed to read this far )
As opposed to one or two who want to redefine homophobia as "anyone who disagrees with me, or criticises me or any gay person"?
I believe we do need some agreed (we'll be lucky) definition of the word, just to serve as a baseline.
Indeed. A couple of years ago I could see no need for same-sex marriage (which is not the same as being against it), until I had an exchange of posts with jswift909 (where's he now?) which completely changed my point of view.
That, surely is the point of a discussion, to see each others' views, not just hurl meaningless abuse at each other?
Even acceptng a change in meaning, the problem starts when you try to include both thought and action in a definition. There's also an inbuilt assumption in threads that there's something shameful about being homophobic, when, so far as thoughts and opinions are concerned, there's no reason why there should be.
While I wouldn't expect someone in a pub on Canal St to suddenly announce in a loud voice "I'm a homophobe, and proud of it", if someone is, they are, and there's probably nothing they can do about it.
Of course they can change their mind, as you did on equal marriage. Prejudice is not an unchanging part of a person's nature. People indulge it.
You cannot believe something to be rational. It's either rational or it isn't. You cannot look at a blade of grass and say 'but I believe it to be a carrot'
You cannot believe something to be rational. It's either rational or it isn't. You cannot look at a blade of grass and say 'but I believe it to be a carrot'
Is there an objective test of whether a belief is rational? If not, then It's only an opinion, which as far as I'm concerned means the same as a belief. As distinct from knowledge.
I have no opinion on gay marriage one way or the other. The only thing I have a problem with are the idiots who insist on calling anyone who dares to disagree with them an idiot.
What gets me why is a straight guy ranting about the subject matter? I am a straight guy and I am not interested in what gays want to achieve. I am not opposed to it but I do not care. What bothers me is the chip on the shoulder. The religious nuts are bothered but how valid is their opinion? This is what bothers me about gayness that fact that you have to tell me what bothers you about being gay. I don't care. Shag a Fu***n goat for all I care but don't tell me about it.
Most people do not care if another person is black, White, gay or otherwise but crappy threads like this just reinforce the stereotype
What gets me why is a straight guy ranting about the subject matter? I am a straight guy and I am not interested in what gays want to achieve. I am not opposed to it but I do not care. What bothers me is the chip on the shoulder. The religious nuts are bothered but how valid is their opinion? This is what bothers me about gayness that fact that you have to tell me what bothers you about being gay. I don't care. Shag a Fu***n goat for all I care but don't tell me about it.
Most people do not care if another person is black, White, gay or otherwise but crappy threads like this just reinforce the stereotype
You mean the op? There are straights who seek equality for everyone
What gets me why is a straight guy ranting about the subject matter? I am a straight guy and I am not interested in what gays want to achieve. I am not opposed to it but I do not care. What bothers me is the chip on the shoulder. The religious nuts are bothered but how valid is their opinion? This is what bothers me about gayness that fact that you have to tell me what bothers you about being gay. I don't care. Shag a Fu***n goat for all I care but don't tell me about it.
Most people do not care if another person is black, White, gay or otherwise but crappy threads like this just reinforce the stereotype
We will shut up when we have the same as you!
That was the part you didn't/don't understand.
Why should any straight person care> Because they are not selfish and have a very bad attitude of 'if it don't affect me. why should I care'.
As a total atheist why should I care that jesaya can't get married in her church even when they wish to be allowed to marry her? Answer: Because she is being stopped from doing so and equal to what others can do. So I fully support her campaign to be allowed to do so.
I love how people are really taking offence to the word idiot on here... Personally the people that don't want to allow gay marriage and have issues with it, I would use a much harsher word. Idiot to me is probably the least offensive term I'd use.
Gay marriage will be passed. That is what one of the Lib Dem members said at Pride yesterday. He said that there is no turning back, IT WILL be passed because as he said "Gay people deserve to be just as equal as everyone else and they should be allowed to express their love"
There was a massive roar of applause to which I loved. He was actually quite passionate about equal rights for gay bi lesbian trans people... But then he is a gay man also :-)
Comments
If it were justified then it wouldn't be irrational. Would it?
I can envisage situations where someone might be racist because of an incident with one or two people, in the past, which deeply affected them. Whether such a thing would justify racism is a different matter completely.
The best I can say is that there might be a set of circumstances which justified racism, but they would be extremely rare.
More valid? Using a fictitious God as an excuse for any view has NO validity unless the person can validate their God first.
I know it's their whole gameplan to state like a fact what they merely think is reality and then carry straight on from that deeply flawed viewpoint without blinking, but they have no validity whatsoever.
So in the end, rather pointless posting what they think as it's is meaningless. When some of them then take action based on such nonsense and try and impose that nonsense on everyone, then that can not and should not be tolerated ever!
Or in black and white: Using a fictitious God as an excuse to stop people's equality is an invalid argument. (Not to mention outright disgusting!)
If it were justified it wouldn't be racism by definition.
If it was racism it would not be justified. Racism may be to a degree understandable because of past experience but that wouldn't make it justifiable.
He doesn't have to validate his God. He didn't say that his believes made his view more valid that anyone else which makes your asking him why he thought it did rather strange.
Repeatedly posting what we think is what we are allowed to do on a discussion forum.
That's how the homophobes operate, they think their god overrules everyone and everything else, they don't need facts, logic or rationality when they have a bible
Maybe, like me ,they believe that God exists and that the Bible is logical and rational.
Insane people think they are logical and rational, it doesn't make them so.
Damn evolution. That Charles Darwin fella was full of sh*t
Then if you think that you can back it up then or not be taken seriously. Which is what is happening.
Religion has had more than enough time to come up with the goods and failed to do so.
People are getting sick of being told that how they are and what they do is an abomination and that just because of what someone thinks in their head, they should not have equal rights.
Religion has a lot to answer for and people will not take not answering for an answer.
Thanks for that.
Of course they can change their mind, as you did on equal marriage. Prejudice is not an unchanging part of a person's nature. People indulge it.
You still haven't told us why gay and straight people 'obviously aren't equal'.
Which I meant to add as a logical result of my first sentence, but forgot to.
Is there an objective test of whether a belief is rational? If not, then It's only an opinion, which as far as I'm concerned means the same as a belief. As distinct from knowledge.
Most people do not care if another person is black, White, gay or otherwise but crappy threads like this just reinforce the stereotype
We will shut up when we have the same as you!
That was the part you didn't/don't understand.
Why should any straight person care> Because they are not selfish and have a very bad attitude of 'if it don't affect me. why should I care'.
As a total atheist why should I care that jesaya can't get married in her church even when they wish to be allowed to marry her? Answer: Because she is being stopped from doing so and equal to what others can do. So I fully support her campaign to be allowed to do so.
And the part you don't understand is that you don't have the right to label everyone who disagrees with your views as being an idiot.
You'd have to be an idiot to do that.
Disagrees or is homophobic? which do you mean?
I cannot envisage the day that I have the time to even bother with an opinion on a subject as trivial who somebody chooses to go to bed with.
Gay marriage will be passed. That is what one of the Lib Dem members said at Pride yesterday. He said that there is no turning back, IT WILL be passed because as he said "Gay people deserve to be just as equal as everyone else and they should be allowed to express their love"
There was a massive roar of applause to which I loved. He was actually quite passionate about equal rights for gay bi lesbian trans people... But then he is a gay man also :-)