When Eccleston turned them down why didn't they call Paul McGann instead of John Hurt?
Up until recentaly we believed McGann's Doctor fought in and ended the Time War. Why Moffat though it was a good idea too create another Doctor when Eccleston turned it down is beyond me. They should have just called up Paul McGann, he still looks looks close enough to what he did in 1996 that it would be believable, he does look a little older but that can be explain easily as we don't know how long the McGann body lasted for.
Please don't misquote me and think that I don't like John Hurt, I do like him he's a fantastic and it'll be interesting to see his interpenetration of the Doctor if nothing else. But the main reason this annoys me somewhat is that McGann is the most unappreciated Doctor of all due to all having one on-screen adventure, he really deserves more screen time and he what's appear in the show again so I really don't get why Moffat's did what he did but then again why that man does anything is beyond me.
Whose to say they didn't call Paul and he was too busy, or not interested?
For all we know Moffat only ever wanted hurt for this ep, until the show airs everything is speculation, no point getting het up over it.
Hell, it could turn out that everything we think we know is a lie and TPTB have found a way the revive the corpses of 1-4 and also discovered the holy grail, so 5-8 can all be in the 50th anniversary epp, looking exactly as we all remember!
Until it Airs this is as valid guess as any other, or so my imaginary source at the BBC tells me.
Whose to say they didn't call Paul and he was too busy, or not interested?
For all we know Moffat only ever wanted hurt for this ep, until the show airs everything is speculation, no point getting het up over it.
Hell, it could turn out that everything we think we know is a lie and TPTB have found a way the revive the corpses of 1-4 and also discovered the holy grail, so 5-8 can all be in the 50th anniversary epp, looking exactly as we all remember!
Until it Airs this is as valid guess as any other, or so my imaginary source at the BBC tells me.
Do some people honestly think that Moffat threw his plans for the 50th anniversary out of the window because Eccleston wasn't involved and that initially he planned a totally different story? Surely it's perfectly obvious that Hurt would have been in the episode regardless and that all that may have happened is that elements of the story were adjusted.
eta: I see this thread has been running a long time, but I honestly never saw it till just now….:o
If Eccleston turned something down I think it was probably doing a regeneration scene from "time war doctor" into 9. A "hidden" regeneration fits a lot of things that have gone on since 2005.
Now we've seen the McGann mini-episode it makes sense that 8 was trying not to get involved in the war, even up to the point where he was sticking his head in the sand about it. He still wanted to do his normal thing of going travelling with a companion, but by then the war had affected so much of the universe that no one even wanted to be rescued by a time lord because of it all. In any case, there wouldn't be much of the universe left to explore by that stage either by the looks of it. It must have been very sad for him. After his chat with the Sisters of Karn he decides he does have to do something about it, so takes their advice and chooses a 'type' for his next regeneration that will be able to knock both sets of heads together- Time lords and Daleks, for the greater good of the universe. He pretty much goes into that regen already regretting what he's going to have to do. And afterwards ( as we see from 2005 onwards in 9 and 10's portrayal) he's still torn up about it and trying to forget.
He probably doesn't remember everything about it either. And since it looks like there may be some involvement with other doctors too, (as seen in the trailers for the 50th anniversary), this all fits as well. Way back to the first multi-doctor stories there has always been some 'fuzzy memory syndrome' going on around meeting his past selves etc. ( I like to think that there are bits of a time lords brain that aren't really there, or are half there and half not sometimes but not all the time, and don't get fully formed in his brain until all of them that are meeting each other have experienced it. That's why sometimes he remembers little bits of meeting himself and sometimes doesn't until after it has happened to all of them. Before, there was also the time lords around, when they were in a more benevolent mood pre time war, who would help out with erasing memories etc. too.)
So we have a time war- a war the doctor was involved in, which he didn't really want to do. He did , in the end, allow himself to become involved, but at the cost wiping what happened in his memory, part by choice and part by what happened. So he wants to forget about it, and also doesn't remember all of it either. the John Hurt 'war doctor' does still exist though, and might actually be a bit pissed off that he's shunned so much, because he was the one who did what had to be done, and none of the others want to know. they'd probably not be there if it wasn't for him, and neither would most of the universe.
To be shut out of his own memories for taking the responsibility that no one else wanted is a bit of a downer to say the least. Especially if it turns out that some of his other incarnations actually helped him ( No- not a spoiler, it's just a possibility from the trailers).
Anyway- I ended up rambling a lot there:) I would have loved to see McGann more, he certainly deserves it, but I do think the plan was always, or evolved out of an idea to have, some kind of forgotten doctor that did most of the 'time war stuff'. BUT- you know there's plenty of possibility for more mini-sodes or something.
Even - the next time they want to have a doctor-lite episode they could stick him in there. Just imagine at the end of a Peter Capaldi episode some baddie's name is mentioned that McGann met in a radio episode? Peter says " I haven't met them since...."then the episode ends.........THEN no next time trailer, OR a next time trailer which only shows the baddies and not the doctor. Or a little hint that he might be regenerating already, if Peter had a blow to the head or something before talking about all this. And when next week arrives it's Doc 8 on the screen- we see a whole episode with doc 8 and Lucie Miller or something fighting said baddies, and at the end Peter is telling Clara ( or new companion?) "so that's what happened with those guys, anyway I wonder what they want this time..." And then a week later it could either be forgotten about, or we could be seeing Peter fight the same bad guys.
Just a little idea But I think it would be A-MAZ-ING to see soemthing like that. It gives Peter time off from a heavy filming schedule- which the crew always seem to want to get ( A doctor lite episode as we call it), it gives the fans a huge thing to cheer about. it would be a 'must watch' thing for the whole country if there's a little hint McGann might be appearing. It would probably blow the ratings off the charts.
What I'm getting it is that it's not impossible. Someone just has to write it and Moffat make it happen in the schedule. It doesn't have to involve the 'nightmare' or working out a multi-doctor thing as well.
When Eccleston turned them down why didn't they call Paul McGann instead of John Hurt?
Up until recentaly we believed McGann's Doctor fought in and ended the Time War. Why Moffat though it was a good idea too create another Doctor when Eccleston turned it down is beyond me. They should have just called up Paul McGann, he still looks looks close enough to what he did in 1996 that it would be believable, he does look a little older but that can be explain easily as we don't know how long the McGann body lasted for.
Please don't misquote me and think that I don't like John Hurt, I do like him he's a fantastic and it'll be interesting to see his interpenetration of the Doctor if nothing else. But the main reason this annoys me somewhat is that McGann is the most unappreciated Doctor of all due to all having one on-screen adventure, he really deserves more screen time and he what's appear in the show again so I really don't get why Moffat's did what he did but then again why that man does anything is beyond me.
Im not sure that it was ever the plan to have Ecclestone as the tine war doctor. It would be poor continuity as in the episode 'Rose' it is strongly implied that CE's doctor had recently regenerated by the fact he was analysing his own face in the mirror.
As for using Hurt over Mcgann well Hurts appearance created a bigger mystery at the end of the previous series. Maybe they thought Mcganns doc was too nice to be the destructive war doctor who knows.
I hope they manage some trickery to show the regeneration from Hurt to Eccleston, even if it relies on CG, or a secret short cameo that has been kept secret.
We could see the end of the Time War;
The War Doctor giving his life to bring peace to the universe;
The 10th and 11th Doctors come to understand why the 8th chose to abandon the self-imposed title of "The Doctor";
Finally at the end of the episode... the War Doctor is left in the same yard we originally found the 1st Doctor and his TARDIS, as he begins to regenerate. The 11th and 10th's TARDIS(s) departing and then we see the 9th Doctor's hand check his sonic screwdriver trying to find his TARDIS, while from a far away shot, start running out of the junkyard - past the old Coal Hill School - And running towards the department store where "Rose" takes place.
That would bridge the gap completely, explain the guilt the 9th Doctor felt, and allow the 11th and 12th Doctor's some closure. Allowing for a change in the narrative and on-going mythos of the future series.
Comments
Because they dont care for the TV Movie.
For all we know Moffat only ever wanted hurt for this ep, until the show airs everything is speculation, no point getting het up over it.
Hell, it could turn out that everything we think we know is a lie and TPTB have found a way the revive the corpses of 1-4 and also discovered the holy grail, so 5-8 can all be in the 50th anniversary epp, looking exactly as we all remember!
Until it Airs this is as valid guess as any other, or so my imaginary source at the BBC tells me.
You do know 4 is still alive, don't you?
To be honest, me accidentally killing him off makes about as much sense as the op's original question does.
it ran out,he had the last of it on his butties;):D
eta: I see this thread has been running a long time, but I honestly never saw it till just now….:o
Now we've seen the McGann mini-episode it makes sense that 8 was trying not to get involved in the war, even up to the point where he was sticking his head in the sand about it. He still wanted to do his normal thing of going travelling with a companion, but by then the war had affected so much of the universe that no one even wanted to be rescued by a time lord because of it all. In any case, there wouldn't be much of the universe left to explore by that stage either by the looks of it. It must have been very sad for him. After his chat with the Sisters of Karn he decides he does have to do something about it, so takes their advice and chooses a 'type' for his next regeneration that will be able to knock both sets of heads together- Time lords and Daleks, for the greater good of the universe. He pretty much goes into that regen already regretting what he's going to have to do. And afterwards ( as we see from 2005 onwards in 9 and 10's portrayal) he's still torn up about it and trying to forget.
He probably doesn't remember everything about it either. And since it looks like there may be some involvement with other doctors too, (as seen in the trailers for the 50th anniversary), this all fits as well. Way back to the first multi-doctor stories there has always been some 'fuzzy memory syndrome' going on around meeting his past selves etc. ( I like to think that there are bits of a time lords brain that aren't really there, or are half there and half not sometimes but not all the time, and don't get fully formed in his brain until all of them that are meeting each other have experienced it. That's why sometimes he remembers little bits of meeting himself and sometimes doesn't until after it has happened to all of them. Before, there was also the time lords around, when they were in a more benevolent mood pre time war, who would help out with erasing memories etc. too.)
So we have a time war- a war the doctor was involved in, which he didn't really want to do. He did , in the end, allow himself to become involved, but at the cost wiping what happened in his memory, part by choice and part by what happened. So he wants to forget about it, and also doesn't remember all of it either. the John Hurt 'war doctor' does still exist though, and might actually be a bit pissed off that he's shunned so much, because he was the one who did what had to be done, and none of the others want to know. they'd probably not be there if it wasn't for him, and neither would most of the universe.
To be shut out of his own memories for taking the responsibility that no one else wanted is a bit of a downer to say the least. Especially if it turns out that some of his other incarnations actually helped him ( No- not a spoiler, it's just a possibility from the trailers).
Anyway- I ended up rambling a lot there:) I would have loved to see McGann more, he certainly deserves it, but I do think the plan was always, or evolved out of an idea to have, some kind of forgotten doctor that did most of the 'time war stuff'. BUT- you know there's plenty of possibility for more mini-sodes or something.
Even - the next time they want to have a doctor-lite episode they could stick him in there. Just imagine at the end of a Peter Capaldi episode some baddie's name is mentioned that McGann met in a radio episode? Peter says " I haven't met them since...."then the episode ends.........THEN no next time trailer, OR a next time trailer which only shows the baddies and not the doctor. Or a little hint that he might be regenerating already, if Peter had a blow to the head or something before talking about all this. And when next week arrives it's Doc 8 on the screen- we see a whole episode with doc 8 and Lucie Miller or something fighting said baddies, and at the end Peter is telling Clara ( or new companion?) "so that's what happened with those guys, anyway I wonder what they want this time..." And then a week later it could either be forgotten about, or we could be seeing Peter fight the same bad guys.
Just a little idea
What I'm getting it is that it's not impossible. Someone just has to write it and Moffat make it happen in the schedule. It doesn't have to involve the 'nightmare' or working out a multi-doctor thing as well.
Im not sure that it was ever the plan to have Ecclestone as the tine war doctor. It would be poor continuity as in the episode 'Rose' it is strongly implied that CE's doctor had recently regenerated by the fact he was analysing his own face in the mirror.
As for using Hurt over Mcgann well Hurts appearance created a bigger mystery at the end of the previous series. Maybe they thought Mcganns doc was too nice to be the destructive war doctor who knows.
...Told you so.
We could see the end of the Time War;
The War Doctor giving his life to bring peace to the universe;
The 10th and 11th Doctors come to understand why the 8th chose to abandon the self-imposed title of "The Doctor";
Finally at the end of the episode... the War Doctor is left in the same yard we originally found the 1st Doctor and his TARDIS, as he begins to regenerate. The 11th and 10th's TARDIS(s) departing and then we see the 9th Doctor's hand check his sonic screwdriver trying to find his TARDIS, while from a far away shot, start running out of the junkyard - past the old Coal Hill School - And running towards the department store where "Rose" takes place.
That would bridge the gap completely, explain the guilt the 9th Doctor felt, and allow the 11th and 12th Doctor's some closure. Allowing for a change in the narrative and on-going mythos of the future series.