Social housing

LadyMinervaLadyMinerva Posts: 755
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If I have been living in central london in social housing, just paying subsidised rent, will the authorities be checking on my circumstances to see if they change.eg, larger salary etc, and perhaps say I am no longer eligible to live here, or, now that I'm here, and have been for some years, are my changing circumstances irrelevant?

Thanks

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  • HeartacheHeartache Posts: 4,299
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    I live in a Flat owned by one of the largest Housing Societies in London and they don't means test anyone once you become a tenant, as long as you satisfied the criteria in the first place, and l have lived here 25yrs.
    If they did l would think they would have to empty out half my estate, whose wages or circumstances have improved over time.
  • bart4858bart4858 Posts: 11,413
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    Heartache wrote: »
    I live in a Flat owned by one of the largest Housing Societies in London and they don't means test anyone once you become a tenant, as long as you satisfied the criteria in the first place, and l have lived here 25yrs.

    That goes a long way to explaining why there are long waiting lists for social housing then!

    Fortunately in other areas of life things are more sensible: if you spend time in hospital, you will get discharged as soon as you get well, rather than be waited on hand and foot for the rest of your life. Unemployed who find full-time, well-paid jobs no longer get their benefits. Etc. But with social housing ... who can explain it?
  • tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    bart4858 wrote: »
    That goes a long way to explaining why there are long waiting lists for social housing then!

    Fortunately in other areas of life things are more sensible: if you spend time in hospital, you will get discharged as soon as you get well, rather than be waited on hand and foot for the rest of your life. Unemployed who find full-time, well-paid jobs no longer get their benefits. Etc. But with social housing ... who can explain it?

    And lets not forget you can get, a gift of £70,000 if you want to buy it, or 100,000 if its in London, selling them off does not help waiting list at all as social housing was always ment for people who could not afford to buy
  • mattlambmattlamb Posts: 4,471
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    bart4858 wrote: »
    That goes a long way to explaining why there are long waiting lists for social housing then!

    Fortunately in other areas of life things are more sensible: if you spend time in hospital, you will get discharged as soon as you get well, rather than be waited on hand and foot for the rest of your life. Unemployed who find full-time, well-paid jobs no longer get their benefits. Etc. But with social housing ... who can explain it?


    God, I hate thes type of ignorant comments. People living in social housing (whether it is housing association or council) do pay their own rent you know (unless they are eligible for Housing benefit). Just as people living in the private rented sector do!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 32,379
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    If I have been living in central london in social housing, just paying subsidised rent, will the authorities be checking on my circumstances to see if they change.eg, larger salary etc, and perhaps say I am no longer eligible to live here, or, now that I'm here, and have been for some years, are my changing circumstances irrelevant?

    Thanks

    Yes they are. The only time you need tell them anything is if you were claiming housing or council tax benefits.
  • Jo09Jo09 Posts: 3,852
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    mattlamb wrote: »
    God, I hate thes type of ignorant comments. People living in social housing (whether it is housing association or council) do pay their own rent you know (unless they are eligible for Housing benefit). Just as people living in the private rented sector do!

    Subsidised by the rest of us.
  • mattlambmattlamb Posts: 4,471
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    Private rents are too high, not the other way round!

    That's why so many people working, claim some Housing Benefit.

    (or alternatively the minimum wage is set at too low a level).
  • Richard1960Richard1960 Posts: 20,336
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    Jo09 wrote: »
    Subsidised by the rest of us.

    Rubbish, my housing association borrows on the open market to build new housing and the rents have to meet the cost,and council's have long since run ring fenced housing revenue accounts as they are not allowed to cross subsidise.

    Still ignorance is bliss.;)
  • bart4858bart4858 Posts: 11,413
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    mattlamb wrote: »
    God, I hate thes type of ignorant comments. People living in social housing (whether it is housing association or council) do pay their own rent you know (unless they are eligible for Housing benefit). Just as people living in the private rented sector do!

    They pay their own rent; so what? Social rents are generally lower than private, maintenance and tenure tend to be better too. That's why there's a waiting list, and why it makes sense to either boot people out when they can afford to rent privately, or charge them a market rate to encourage them to do so. Because either social housing is special, or it isn't.
    Rubbish, my housing association borrows on the open market to build new housing and the rents have to meet the cost,and council's have long since run ring fenced housing revenue accounts as they are not allowed to cross subsidise.
    Still ignorance is bliss.;)

    So, they buy land at the same rate as anyone else, pay the same building costs as anyone else, have to jump through the same hoops for planning permission etc, and find their financing through exactly the same avenues and on the same terms as available to anyone?

    And they can do all this without special conditions such also having to build houses for private sale or rent to help fund (ie. 'subsidise') the rest of the development?

    If so, that's great. But in that case, why can't we all benefit? Why aren't there a lot more housing associations working on even more developments?
  • HeartacheHeartache Posts: 4,299
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    bart4858 wrote: »
    That goes a long way to explaining why there are long waiting lists for social housing then!

    Fortunately in other areas of life things are more sensible: if you spend time in hospital, you will get discharged as soon as you get well, rather than be waited on hand and foot for the rest of your life. Unemployed who find full-time, well-paid jobs no longer get their benefits. Etc. But with social housing ... who can explain it?

    Just because l have lived here for 25yrs and have worked full time for 40yrs does not mean l am any closer to being able to afford to rent privately or be able to buy.
  • bart4858bart4858 Posts: 11,413
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    Heartache wrote: »
    Just because l have lived here for 25yrs and have worked full time for 40yrs does not mean l am any closer to being able to afford to rent privately or be able to buy.

    But perhaps others can. You wrote this:

    "If they did l would think they would have to empty out half my estate, whose wages or circumstances have improved over time."


    (BTW everyone these days seems to be blaming greedy private landlords and BTL, house price inflation, selling off council homes, etc for the reason they can't afford private housing. But what was the excuse 40 years ago?)
  • Jo09Jo09 Posts: 3,852
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    Rubbish, my housing association borrows on the open market to build new housing and the rents have to meet the cost,and council's have long since run ring fenced housing revenue accounts as they are not allowed to cross subsidise.

    Still ignorance is bliss.;)

    Silence is the best answer for foolish and rude statements.
  • HeartacheHeartache Posts: 4,299
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    bart4858 wrote: »
    But perhaps others can. You wrote this:

    "If they did l would think they would have to empty out half my estate, whose wages or circumstances have improved over time."


    (BTW everyone these days seems to be blaming greedy private landlords and BTL, house price inflation, selling off council homes, etc for the reason they can't afford private housing. But what was the excuse 40 years ago?)

    It was the same 40yrs ago, l know l would be okay with a means test. l have neighbours (a couple) who have lived in their flat longer than me over time she became a college lecturer and he built up a burgular alarm business, those that can be seen on many properties around chelsea.

    Or the Lawyer who lives in the top flat with his boyfriend.

    Or the retired Bank Manager and his wife, who run an IT company from his flat.

    If you were single on a low wage you may still be able to get a flat with my society. You would stand a strong chance of getting one as a key worker, a lot of the flats are renovated and go to them.

    We do not have larger properties on my estate they are all one bedroom.
  • Pippa 2Pippa 2 Posts: 2,614
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    Jo09 wrote: »
    Silence is the best answer for foolish and rude statements.

    Well, that's rich. You were the one who made an incorrect statement in the first place!
  • mattlambmattlamb Posts: 4,471
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    bart4858 wrote: »
    They pay their own rent; so what? Social rents are generally lower than private, maintenance and tenure tend to be better too. That's why there's a waiting list, and why it makes sense to either boot people out when they can afford to rent privately, or charge them a market rate to encourage them to do so. Because either social housing is special, or it isn't.



    So, they buy land at the same rate as anyone else, pay the same building costs as anyone else, have to jump through the same hoops for planning permission etc, and find their financing through exactly the same avenues and on the same terms as available to anyone?

    And they can do all this without special conditions such also having to build houses for private sale or rent to help fund (ie. 'subsidise') the rest of the development?

    If so, that's great. But in that case, why can't we all benefit? Why aren't there a lot more housing associations working on even more developments?



    So let's make all housing more expensive, eh? How about making private rented housing cheaper instead? And doing something about overpriced omes in this country as well?

    Of course, it makes so much morse sense to make the only type of reasonably priced housing more expensive, instead, doesn;t it??!!
  • Jo09Jo09 Posts: 3,852
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    Pippa 2 wrote: »
    Well, that's rich. You were the one who made an incorrect statement in the first place!

    Social housing IS subsidised by the rest of us.

    http://england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns/why_we_campaign/Improving_social_housing/what_is_social_housing
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 951
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    If I have been living in central london in social housing, just paying subsidised rent, will the authorities be checking on my circumstances to see if they change.eg, larger salary etc, and perhaps say I am no longer eligible to live here, or, now that I'm here, and have been for some years, are my changing circumstances irrelevant?

    Thanks

    as long as you aint shacked up wi a millionaire TAX dodger you should be ok. if you have someone living with you make sure the letters don fall on your floor = proof of.
  • tghe-retfordtghe-retford Posts: 26,449
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    Jo09 wrote: »
    Subsidised by the rest of us.
    No it's not. If anything, social tenants have been making a profit for the Treasury since 2008:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/2012/jan/27/government-subsidised-social-housing-rent
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    Social housing is NOT subsidised.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 951
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    Social housing is NOT subsidised.
    if she/he works it is - depends on wage top up on rent and council TAX
  • tghe-retfordtghe-retford Posts: 26,449
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    a1974 wrote: »
    if she/he works it is - depends on wage top up on rent and council TAX
    Under that argument, private renting is even more subsidised if the individual claims housing benefit as the rents are higher to make the landlord a profit. But will anyone condemn private rented landlords for funding their profits? No?

    There should be no shame or stigma in living in a social home. It was not-for-profit, sadly the Government has seen an opportunity to make money from the poorest lately by moving rents up toward those charged by private landlords, but it's still saving money for those who do claim housing benefit (93% of recent claims are from households with at least one person who "work hard and get on") which would be higher if said person was forced into the private sector.
  • bart4858bart4858 Posts: 11,413
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    mattlamb wrote: »
    So let's make all housing more expensive, eh? How about making private rented housing cheaper instead? And doing something about overpriced omes in this country as well?

    But that's exactly what I'm saying! If it is economically viable to supply housing at HA or council prices - that is, without it requiring everyone else paying more to make it possible - then why can't we call benefit from it? However, I think the model does depend to some extent on an expensive private sector.

    (And in a similar way, no-one really believes that Ryanair can run a profitable, or just break-even, airline by only selling £1 tickets. Those tickets are subsidised by those paying a lot more!)
  • noise747noise747 Posts: 30,692
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    If people got the wages and can get a mortgage, then I don't why they want to stay in rented property anyway. it is just throwing away money to be honest.

    I live in social housing and if i had the money I would buy a place. i agree that people that earns a really good wage, say something like £25,000 or more should look at other options.

    i have a option to buy this house, because i was here when it was council before is became housing association, new tenants don't have that option. Not sure if I would mind you, while it is ok here, not sure if I want to live here for the rest of my life.
  • Richard1960Richard1960 Posts: 20,336
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    noise747 wrote: »
    If people got the wages and can get a mortgage, then I don't why they want to stay in rented property anyway. it is just throwing away money to be honest.

    I live in social housing and if i had the money I would buy a place. i agree that people that earns a really good wage, say something like £25,000 or more should look at other options.

    i have a option to buy this house, because i was here when it was council before is became housing association, new tenants don't have that option. Not sure if I would mind you, while it is ok here, not sure if I want to live here for the rest of my life.

    For a variety of reasons i rent from a housing association and am quite happy renting,No Repair bills,secure tenancy,reasonable rent,buying would involve taking out what is in effect is a huge loan,the trouble with this country is all have been brianwashed into thinking ownership is king why should it be?

    I do not feel any less a person because i rent.

    I know when my brother bought a leasehold flat the service charge bills had to be seen to be believed,also any major repairs to the block he had to pay a portion of,it was all pay out.
  • realwalesrealwales Posts: 3,110
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    noise747 wrote: »
    If people got the wages and can get a mortgage, then I don't why they want to stay in rented property anyway. it is just throwing away money to be honest.

    I live in social housing and if i had the money I would buy a place. i agree that people that earns a really good wage, say something like £25,000 or more should look at other options.

    i have a option to buy this house, because i was here when it was council before is became housing association, new tenants don't have that option. Not sure if I would mind you, while it is ok here, not sure if I want to live here for the rest of my life.

    I'm a private landlord, and only let my properties to people who work, or are retired, as a matter of principle.

    People prefer to rent for a variety of reasons. Not being able to afford a mortgage is one of them, but there are others.

    I live in South Wales. There are many people here with minimal job security and don't want to be in the position of losing their jobs and not being able to afford to pay the mortgage. It's far easier to give your landlord the required two months' notice that you're quitting, and then move back in with your parents (for example), than to get into mortgage arrears and face selling the property and all that it incurs.

    Also, people who do the sort of jobs where they move around a lot often don't want to take on a long-term mortgage. You may only stay in your current area for six months or a few years. Why would you want a 25 year mortgage, or have the hassle of selling up when it's time to move?

    Yes, for some people, getting married, having children, getting a mortgage, working long hours to pay it, while having to make all sorts of other sacrifices to keep up repayments, may be the life for you. Good luck to you. But for many, it is not.

    As for private rents being too high, it is a case of supply and demand. In London, mass immigration and the London-centric approach to running the economy has put tremendous demand on the housing stock, even in the less desirable areas.

    In the areas where I own property, rents are considerably lower. If you think rents are high now, just wait until the day comes when interest rates go up. They'll rise considerably.

    The solution:

    1. End mass immigration. Leave the EU, because we can't control our borders for as long as we remain in it.

    2. Build more houses on brownfield sites inside towns and cities.

    3. Encourage businesses to be less London-centric. In this age of easy communication, there's no reason why many couldn't relocate to other parts of the country.
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