Never much liked Morse but realy enjoy Endevour. Enjoyed last nights episode except for the last few minutes which I felt were rushed. It would in reality, taken a good few days before Morse would have been remanded in custody, which I assume he has, and all the exisitng evidence would have had to have been put before a Magistrates Court and surely all the evidence that we the viewer have seen would have cleared Morse straight away. The facgt that he was in the Police Station with at least one other officer at the same time that the Chief Constable was killed, would have been enough. Nothing mentioned about the officers who took pot shots at Morse in the car, etc etc. Still lokking forward to the next series.
I thought the end rushed also. It was as if they had about another 20 minutes worth of story to tell, but suddenly realised they had run out of time.
Thought last nights was poor, with Thursday at death's door and Morse being arrested on the basis of a scarf. I also wonder how true to the real Morse this is.
Not quite sure what you mean by your question - the 'real Morse' the character created by Colin Dexter? Or the 'real Morse' as in the overall 'feel' of the TV series, and the events/story-lines presented in the scripts we see being brought to life on screen, firstly with John Thaw in the lead role and now with Shaun Evans?
For what it's worth, my thoughts on both:
The 'real Morse' in terms of the character is basically anything Colin Dexter gives his blessing to/writes/collaborates on. Dexter took a long time to be convinced that the 'prequel' concept was a good idea - and without his say-so there would have been no programme. He's heavily involved behind he scenes in the making of 'Endeavour' (just as he was with 'Morse' and 'Lewis') and as far as I've read in interviews with Dexter since 'Endeavour' has been on TV, he considers Evans' portrayal to be the 'real, younger Morse'. Just as he considers John Thaw's portrayal to be the 'real, older Morse'. So much so on both counts that Dexter has written it into his will that no one else can portray the character on TV! If that definition of 'real Morse' as a character is good enough for Colin Dexter, then that's good enough for me!
As for the 'real Morse' in terms of the whole 'feel' of the TV series that bear (both) his names, and the events portrayed in the scripts , then surely the same applies? Colin Dexter's clear and well-documented doubts as to whether a 'prequel' could match the same 'feel' in his eyes as the Thaw adaptation had done would never have been overcome if Dexter hadn't felt that the production of 'Endeavour' had captured that 'feel'. Likewise, the events presented in the scripts had to have Dexter's blessing enough to make it to the screen - even the overwhelming majority of all the stories that bore the Morse name when Thaw played the role were written by people other than Dexter, so the level of Dexter's involvement in approving the scripts was something they had to agree on early on, and that's continued into every other series he's seen his characters appear in.
Anyway, that's my take on it - if Colin Dexter considers what we're seeing 'real', in any or all of the respects I've interpreted here, then I'll take it as 'real' too. But maybe you're thinking of an angle I haven't thought? If so, I'm interested to hear your thoughts!
I do like the little nods here and there to the original Morse - the references to Farnleigh Prison (from 'Absolute Conviction') this week (and last week) and the name M****t (from 'Masonic Mysteries' - by then he was Chief Superintendent M****t, I think, and didn't he end up being killed by De Vries in Morse's airing cupboard?!) were just two last night I caught, but there may have been more I missed. Like others, I have to watch it again because I missed a lot of the threads on first viewing!
As to why Strange progressed as far as he did in the force when he's still, at this stage in 'Endeavour', junior to Morse, it was established in the Thaw series that Strange was a Mason, and that it was something that certainly hadn't hindered his career in the police over the years. (Morse never wanted to be - and possibly was never invited to be to start with!) But Strange is essentially a good guy, albeit one who likes to 'do it by the book' (Morse's lack of respect for 'doing it by the book' was also part of a conversation between him and Strange in the original series!) and I think he'll come through for Morse in Series 3 (Shaun Evans interview in a TV magazine at the weekend quoted him as saying they hadn't had the go-head yet, but were hoping to get it soon).
But that's not to say Strange is part of the darker Masonic hints we've had sporadically through 'Endeavour' up to this point - he may not even be a Mason yet (not senior enough, still in uniform etc). But perhaps the Masonic element has got something to do with the tensions between City and County too. Unless that was covered last night and I missed it?! Highly likely - and in which case I've made a twit of myself with my musings about it, ha ha!
So do I. Roger Allam's Fred Thursday is wonderful character player by a fantastic actor. However, Thursday is a disposable character. We know Morse, Strange and Max are going to be, in the long run, safe but others, like Thursday and Bright, don't need to be kept alive. I fear the mention of Mc-Nutt [I include the hypthen or part of the name gets starred out for some reason] does not bode well for Fred Thursday.
thought the episode started slowly but really enjoyed it - thought the ending was disturbing, hopefully the new series won't be too long, really hope Thursday pulls through....
Thought provoking episode last night, hope there's a new series next year.
Creepy puppet, Saville/Smith overtones, police corruption,it was all there.
Shaun Evans is brilliant.
Lewis was also excellent, until they chopped it in two and made it unwatchable.
I agree. However after giving up last time after the first 2 part story I'm going to record the repeats currently on Friday nights ITV1 and watch them as intended. Not sure why I didn't do this first time around.
I don't have any way of recording. I did think about watching on ITV player once both episodes are on but it's not letting me skip the ads anymore!
That's another reason why recording them is good, you can fast forward through the ads making what would be a two hour viewing reduce to a little over ninety minutes.
This series ended far too quickly and I agree, I can't stand Vera either. She seems to look like a bag lady rather than a detective and the accent is horrendous. I like Brenda Blethyn as an actress but never took to Vera.
I'm another who would never watch Vera.
Totally unbelievable police drama.
Thought the last episode had far too many themes and was overwrought. There's very little dramatic value having Morse banged up wheen the viewers all know he becomes a chief inspector.
So do I. Roger Allam's Fred Thursday is wonderful character player by a fantastic actor. However, Thursday is a disposable character. We know Morse, Strange and Max are going to be, in the long run, safe but others, like Thursday and Bright, don't need to be kept alive. I fear the mention of Mc-Nutt [I include the hypthen or part of the name gets starred out for some reason] does not bode well for Fred Thursday.
The second Fred mentioned he may retire I thought that the next series may include Mc Nutt, although in the episode Masonic Mysteries, wasn't Morse a DS under him?.
Hope though that Fred returns, if only to hand poor Endevour on to Mc Nutt.
<post snipped for space> Unless that was covered last night and I missed it?! Highly likely - and in which case I've made a twit of myself with my musings about it, ha ha!
No Jersey, your "musings" were put across in a very instructive way.
I prefer Shaun Evans to John Thaw as Morse - he seems more human with a greater emotional range and a pleasure to watch. I find Thaw's characterisation of Morse far too mannered, If Evans continues to play Morse I hope he can avoid turning him into a cantankerous old git who is too much up his own arse. Dexter probably wrote him that way so this isn't a slur on John Thaw's acting ability but I don't subscribe to the notion that the only way to play Morse is the way Dexter envisioned the character. Just as actors are free to interpret Shakespearian roles they should be free to reinterpret Morse.
John Thaw ( as Morse ) did have a good emotional range, showed his vulnerable side from time to time and even had a sense of humour throughout the series. But old Morse had a drink problem by John Thaw's era - his way of escaping his demons, especially his lack of a family life - which made him a sadder character by then. Colin Dexter even killed him off because it was the "realistic' thing to do with someone who's very unfit and has a drink problem. I love Shaun Evans as Morse but I wouldn't say he was better than John Thaw, they're playing Morse at two different stages in his life.
I also think some Morse stories from John Thaw's era were the best ever, especially Second Time Around - the one involving a little girl being found murdered when Morse was a young detective, which guest stared Christopher Eccelstan and Oliver Ford Davis. Some great acting and writing in that.
Good episode on Sunday night and what a surprise ending......
Fabulous show. Whilst it may not be quite as well written as top US cop shows such as True Detective, The Wire etc Endeavour still has me hooked with the added extra of being quintessentially English.
But old Morse had a drink problem by John Thaw's era
I never saw him as having a drink problem.
Obviously that depends on what you define as a 'problem', but you never saw him drink to excess and drinking certainly didn't seem to interfere with his work.
The drinking we saw usually consisted of his slowly appreciating one or two pints of real ale rather than the hurried "lets get a few down as fast as we can" style of the problem drinker.
Loved Endeavour, but will not be staying for Vera. From the ads, it seems a bit shouty, and I prefer my detectives deep and thoughtful.
It`s utterly dreadful and entirely because of Brenda Blethyn cloaked in her Emperor`s New Clothes which render her lack of talent invisible to all critics!
It`s utterly dreadful and entirely because of Brenda Blethyn cloaked in her Emperor`s New Clothes which render her lack of talent invisible to all critics!
To quote from her Wikipedia page..."Blethyn has received two Academy Award nominations, two SAG Award nominations, two Emmy Award nominations and three Golden Globe Award nominations, winning one. In addition, she has won a BAFTA, an Empire Award and a Golden Lion and has earned a Theatre World Award and both a Critics' Circle Theatre Award and a Laurence Olivier Award nomination for her theatrical work".
Each to their own of course, each to their own....
Poor old Thursday, but I suppose 'death of mentor' is one of the classic themes in the hero's journey, if death it is to be. Which I hope it isn't, Roger Allam is a class act(or).
To quote from her Wikipedia page..."Blethyn has received two Academy Award nominations, two SAG Award nominations, two Emmy Award nominations and three Golden Globe Award nominations, winning one. In addition, she has won a BAFTA, an Empire Award and a Golden Lion and has earned a Theatre World Award and both a Critics' Circle Theatre Award and a Laurence Olivier Award nomination for her theatrical work".
Each to their own of course, each to their own....
Like I said, Emperor`s New Clothes. She`s not good enough even for Eastenders.
It`s utterly dreadful and entirely because of Brenda Blethyn cloaked in her Emperor`s New Clothes which render her lack of talent invisible to all critics!
I love Brenda, but hate Vera. On that 50 top cops thing someone described her a female Columbo. Which fits. I can't stand Columbo either.
I love cop dramas, but I didn't like Vera when I watched it,
Would rather put a Morse DVD or Lewis DVD on next Sunday! (I haven't got Endeavour on DVD yet!)
At least Lewis is coming back - yay!
Comments
I thought the end rushed also. It was as if they had about another 20 minutes worth of story to tell, but suddenly realised they had run out of time.
Still one of the best things on telly though.
Not quite sure what you mean by your question - the 'real Morse' the character created by Colin Dexter? Or the 'real Morse' as in the overall 'feel' of the TV series, and the events/story-lines presented in the scripts we see being brought to life on screen, firstly with John Thaw in the lead role and now with Shaun Evans?
For what it's worth, my thoughts on both:
The 'real Morse' in terms of the character is basically anything Colin Dexter gives his blessing to/writes/collaborates on. Dexter took a long time to be convinced that the 'prequel' concept was a good idea - and without his say-so there would have been no programme. He's heavily involved behind he scenes in the making of 'Endeavour' (just as he was with 'Morse' and 'Lewis') and as far as I've read in interviews with Dexter since 'Endeavour' has been on TV, he considers Evans' portrayal to be the 'real, younger Morse'. Just as he considers John Thaw's portrayal to be the 'real, older Morse'. So much so on both counts that Dexter has written it into his will that no one else can portray the character on TV! If that definition of 'real Morse' as a character is good enough for Colin Dexter, then that's good enough for me!
As for the 'real Morse' in terms of the whole 'feel' of the TV series that bear (both) his names, and the events portrayed in the scripts , then surely the same applies? Colin Dexter's clear and well-documented doubts as to whether a 'prequel' could match the same 'feel' in his eyes as the Thaw adaptation had done would never have been overcome if Dexter hadn't felt that the production of 'Endeavour' had captured that 'feel'. Likewise, the events presented in the scripts had to have Dexter's blessing enough to make it to the screen - even the overwhelming majority of all the stories that bore the Morse name when Thaw played the role were written by people other than Dexter, so the level of Dexter's involvement in approving the scripts was something they had to agree on early on, and that's continued into every other series he's seen his characters appear in.
Anyway, that's my take on it - if Colin Dexter considers what we're seeing 'real', in any or all of the respects I've interpreted here, then I'll take it as 'real' too. But maybe you're thinking of an angle I haven't thought? If so, I'm interested to hear your thoughts!
I do like the little nods here and there to the original Morse - the references to Farnleigh Prison (from 'Absolute Conviction') this week (and last week) and the name M****t (from 'Masonic Mysteries' - by then he was Chief Superintendent M****t, I think, and didn't he end up being killed by De Vries in Morse's airing cupboard?!) were just two last night I caught, but there may have been more I missed. Like others, I have to watch it again because I missed a lot of the threads on first viewing!
As to why Strange progressed as far as he did in the force when he's still, at this stage in 'Endeavour', junior to Morse, it was established in the Thaw series that Strange was a Mason, and that it was something that certainly hadn't hindered his career in the police over the years. (Morse never wanted to be - and possibly was never invited to be to start with!) But Strange is essentially a good guy, albeit one who likes to 'do it by the book' (Morse's lack of respect for 'doing it by the book' was also part of a conversation between him and Strange in the original series!) and I think he'll come through for Morse in Series 3 (Shaun Evans interview in a TV magazine at the weekend quoted him as saying they hadn't had the go-head yet, but were hoping to get it soon).
But that's not to say Strange is part of the darker Masonic hints we've had sporadically through 'Endeavour' up to this point - he may not even be a Mason yet (not senior enough, still in uniform etc). But perhaps the Masonic element has got something to do with the tensions between City and County too. Unless that was covered last night and I missed it?! Highly likely - and in which case I've made a twit of myself with my musings about it, ha ha!
I have been told by someone who has read the books that on the page Morse wasn't quite so dour and morose as he was in the television adaptations.
So do I. Roger Allam's Fred Thursday is wonderful character player by a fantastic actor. However, Thursday is a disposable character. We know Morse, Strange and Max are going to be, in the long run, safe but others, like Thursday and Bright, don't need to be kept alive. I fear the mention of Mc-Nutt [I include the hypthen or part of the name gets starred out for some reason] does not bode well for Fred Thursday.
Creepy puppet, Saville/Smith overtones, police corruption,it was all there.
Shaun Evans is brilliant.
I agree. However after giving up last time after the first 2 part story I'm going to record the repeats currently on Friday nights ITV1 and watch them as intended. Not sure why I didn't do this first time around.
That's another reason why recording them is good, you can fast forward through the ads making what would be a two hour viewing reduce to a little over ninety minutes.
Looking forward to future Endeavour series... please!
I'm another who would never watch Vera.
Totally unbelievable police drama.
Absolutely - there isn't a police force in this land that has a female Detective Chief Inspector like that working in it !
The second Fred mentioned he may retire I thought that the next series may include Mc Nutt, although in the episode Masonic Mysteries, wasn't Morse a DS under him?.
Hope though that Fred returns, if only to hand poor Endevour on to Mc Nutt.
Roll on series 3.
I love my detective series, but even I draw the line a Vera!......
Yuk.
No Jersey, your "musings" were put across in a very instructive way.
Nicely done jp.
John Thaw ( as Morse ) did have a good emotional range, showed his vulnerable side from time to time and even had a sense of humour throughout the series. But old Morse had a drink problem by John Thaw's era - his way of escaping his demons, especially his lack of a family life - which made him a sadder character by then. Colin Dexter even killed him off because it was the "realistic' thing to do with someone who's very unfit and has a drink problem. I love Shaun Evans as Morse but I wouldn't say he was better than John Thaw, they're playing Morse at two different stages in his life.
I also think some Morse stories from John Thaw's era were the best ever, especially Second Time Around - the one involving a little girl being found murdered when Morse was a young detective, which guest stared Christopher Eccelstan and Oliver Ford Davis. Some great acting and writing in that.
Good episode on Sunday night and what a surprise ending......
This.
I never saw him as having a drink problem.
Obviously that depends on what you define as a 'problem', but you never saw him drink to excess and drinking certainly didn't seem to interfere with his work.
The drinking we saw usually consisted of his slowly appreciating one or two pints of real ale rather than the hurried "lets get a few down as fast as we can" style of the problem drinker.
It`s utterly dreadful and entirely because of Brenda Blethyn cloaked in her Emperor`s New Clothes which render her lack of talent invisible to all critics!
To quote from her Wikipedia page..."Blethyn has received two Academy Award nominations, two SAG Award nominations, two Emmy Award nominations and three Golden Globe Award nominations, winning one. In addition, she has won a BAFTA, an Empire Award and a Golden Lion and has earned a Theatre World Award and both a Critics' Circle Theatre Award and a Laurence Olivier Award nomination for her theatrical work".
Each to their own of course, each to their own....
Poor old Thursday, but I suppose 'death of mentor' is one of the classic themes in the hero's journey, if death it is to be. Which I hope it isn't, Roger Allam is a class act(or).
Like I said, Emperor`s New Clothes. She`s not good enough even for Eastenders.
.
I suspect Thursday will be around as long as Endeavour is.
I love Brenda, but hate Vera. On that 50 top cops thing someone described her a female Columbo. Which fits. I can't stand Columbo either.
I love cop dramas, but I didn't like Vera when I watched it,
Would rather put a Morse DVD or Lewis DVD on next Sunday! (I haven't got Endeavour on DVD yet!)
At least Lewis is coming back - yay!