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Oscar Pistorius Trial (Merged)
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Yes , I was surprised by that too, except I suppose he brought together all the stuff being said by other witness regarding his vulnerability. But it suggests an new defence never used before, and I'm not sure that it will run. It will be interesting !
It's very odd that the case is now closed as far as evidence and we still do not know what OPs defence actually is. I find that very odd indeed.
Does that explain why Roux said something about the accused being entitled to know the close of Prosecution's case but could be addressed in argument..... is that because the Defence don't know what the defence is still?
Continuation of: Oscar Pistorius Trial (Merged)
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There are two separate elements the TV's were for the court as there were digital images and video nothing to do with the TV coverage.
The cameras were something completely different and would be pretty easy to put back when required.
BIB I assumed some of the reasons he couldn't allow the suggestion Reeva might have gone downstairs for a snack etc would be;
I) He'd already said that they ate and went to bed at specific times so it would open up his simplistic version to a huge amount of questions, most importantly why didn't you hear Reeva move the cricket bat and then put it back, would she have needed to turn the alarm off and re-set it and if so why didn't you hear that etc.
ii) If he admitted it was a possibility that Reeva could have gone downstairs and he didn't hear her it makes it appear even more reckless that he would shoot through a bathroom door without knowing who was in there. He hadn't heard her get up the first time and make all that noise yet he was alarmed by a window noise in the bathroom later on.
iii) He didn't want to promote any idea that Reeva might have been downstairs, thereby increasing the possibility that he also might have been downstairs at some point later that evening, which in turn leads to the strong possibility that he would have put his prosthetic legs on and of course that he was lying about going to sleep at 10.00pm.
In conclusion I think he wanted to contain everything within his bedroom/bathroom to keep things as simple as possible. Once he had provided his bail statement he had to stick to that version as rigidly as possible to minimise the chance for greater investigation and speculation into other eventualities. The more he tried to do that and seal off the bedroom area the more I suspect they were arguing both downstairs and upstairs and never went to bed.
As it was said in court OP does not like to be seen without his legs. Seeing in the video how quickly he can put them on I believe he had the legs on all the time. I don't believe he would walk on his stumps even in his bedroom when he can slip his legs on as simply as putting on a pair of slippers.
There a few things we know about Oscar, that he was extremely image conscious and that he was very business astute as testified by Van Zyl. His income was very dependant on sponsorship deals and a good clean image was all and everything.
He said that when he was younger he kept bad company but had moved on in a effort to distance himself from a lot of gossip and speculation about his earlier bad boy exploits.
He is constantly coaching Reeva on how to behave and appear when she is with him, she has become part of his image.
Imagine the panic fear and anger when she is locked in his toilet screaming her lungs out and possibly threatening to go to the police.
This is sheer disaster for him, his image and his sponsorship deals.
He is in a high state of panic, the security might hear her, neighbours possibly hear her, what to do, and this is where you are correct, he has this an idea that he will also scream and shout to give the impression that in some way they are under attack from intruders, he is also shouting for help. But, and it's a big but, if and when she comes out of that toilet she will blow this apart. He shoots her, but he is till thinking intruder so goes onto the balcony and yells for help. I'm sure as you said it was his intention to make it look like an intruder attack, but events overtook him.
He clearly had some sort of plan hatching. The fact that he did not call for help, he could not afford for her to survive given the events, he called Stander, an odd choice under any circumstance.
He told security all was fine. It was Dr Stipp turning up that really screwed him. I'm sure that is why he was so ungracious about Stipp in his evidence. He still thought he could make it look like an intruder attack , or perhaps get her to hospital and clean up before questions were asked.
Just my thoughts tho.
Yes.
He wanted to keep it simple and to avoid problems so 'they were both asleep'.
After the gastric emptying evidence he CHANGED this to - 'I went to sleep' so Reeva could have been awake.
But also denied that it was likely that she had had a snack - this meant he 'didn't know' and 'couldn't answer' questions about the bat etc. and would be 'assuming' like the state.
And it left it OPEN that she could have gone down and had a snack that she didn't know about.
At the time I thought this was absolutely deliberate - a ploy - especially as he even corrected Nel about how long it would be before she had eaten. And smirked.
He knew that he had changed his evidence to ALLOW for the possibility that she had eaten later, although he wouldn't have known about it, and had thus scored 'one up' on Nel.
However, it came across as a 'useful' for him, change in his testimony - tailoring.
And that's what it was.
yes. and remember that he also changed it to "reeva was awake and spoke to me" which leaves it open for speculation that she could very well have gone for a snack
very sneaky changes. i never realised them until now
I agree completely.
Reeva arrives with the shopping followed by a grumpy Oscar shortly after. He according to the time scale goes upstairs immediately for a bath. And we have the the suggestion he watched a bit of porn.
We know he has had a bad day and as usual Reeva is trying to calm him and pacify him.
I'm pretty certain she went upstairs with him to discuss the events that upset him , it would be normal and natural, did she have a shower? A bath then too? Possibly.
I think this when actually when they jumped into bed. They were young attractive healthy people and I would think it was odd that they didn't have spontaneous sex. I may be old but I do remember those youthful heady days.
I think they had sex, cuddled up and had a sleep. Remember OP has difficulty sleeping and needed blackout blinds to help when he fell asleep when it was light.
His sleep patterns was erratic.
It was much later that they decided to get up and have something to eat etc.
Reeva began working on her speech etc , OP could not sleep and who knows exactly what happened after that until the shooting. Maybe her thought process as she was formulating her speech caused her to raise concerns with OP about his behaviour etc. he would never be open to that sort of criticism , it would not be up for discussion and I bet he would react badly.
Again just my thoughts.
In the Pistorius case?
something new? or the same thing they showed a few days ago?
i can buy that. i reckon one of them woke up before the other which accounts for the ipad browsing activity at 9.19. then perhaps dropped off to sleep again, or waited for the other one to wake up before getting out of bed and disturbing them
that might explain the duvet on the floor. perhaps they kicked it off them when they got out of bed?
"Yes pretty much what I think. What was in his mind when he fired the shots? At that precise point, the first shot may have been to torment / warn her further. Maybe he misjudged the shot and as we know he took out her hip. The moment he realised from her intense screaming the only thought was to silence her worried that the Neighbours may hear and that he could never let her live to tell the tale.
I strongly believed from outset that one of the contributing factors was the up and coming to soon be Broadcast TV Show, which would as far as Reeva knew at that time show her kissing one of the other Contestants. She had tried to get the Producers to keep this out, but they refused (when they did broadcast it they did probably out of respect and guilt left it out). I suspect that Reeva brought this up that Night so as to get this out of the way and defuse (she thought) an aggressive reaction. With as we have found out his nature (Narcissism still for me), jealousy and insecurities around women this was a distinctly likely trigger on top of others. Never ever found out who she was supposed to have kissed, she would have known and he would have got that out of her. What did he look like and did that make it worse in OP's mind?
Yes Dr Stripp turning up put a spanner in the works for sure. I really would like after the Trial, for the Police to start (if they haven't already) looking into the actions of others that night and subsequent. "
I could not agree more with this summation.
My thoughts are that he may have been attempting to get her body away from that house with the aid of a few friends. I suspect that Johan, Carice and Frank where implicit in his attempt to do so.
That is why he has such contempt for Dr Stipp despite the fact that he took control,instigated the first call for an ambulance and did what he could to save Reeva.
Trying to save Reeva with gardening impliments and tape as a first measure makes no sense whatsoever.
I also thought that about the Doovay, loved how Nel said it.:D
And of course it suited OPs claim that they were in bed. I don't believe they went to bed apart from possibly early on.
It has always been more credible for me that they had sex/sleep early and got up later and ate etc.
It's what I would have been doing when I was young and in love anyway
doovay
yeah, it's what i would have been doing too
All that the prosecution has to go on is expert evidence, probabilities and what we have learned from the mouth of OP.
As he has fashioned his case to give as little information as he can do alongside a ton of made up garbage then the prosecutions timeline will undoubtedly be very vague in relation to the timescale from 7pm onwards.
Would you expect a full timeline?
No- but something resembling a timeline would be good! It can't just be 'we think they had an argument at around two am, then he shot her in the toilet at around 3:15 am', can it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0EFUs9aOXQ
Pretty much how it turned out so far - except that OP didn't stick to his story.
It's quite long but well worth the time if you have it.
That wouldn't do at all. My sense is that they may structure it along these lines:
1. We know OP killed Reeva. The battered door, battered bath, broken tiles, damaged bedroom door, clothes and duvet on the floor, plus the female shouts and blood-curdling screams suggest a DV incident.
2. OP says it was self-defence (putative) so lets see if his version stacks up. If it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt to be false, then we must conclude that this is a DV incident.
3. Then go through his story bit by bit - pointing out the external evidence that show that it cannot be true.
- Bed at 10pm - woke at 3am:
BUT Reeva was eating late / female voice
- Fans / Curtains
BUT police photos
- Shots then Bat
BUT screaming heard after the shots / time of death / forensic blood / duvet blood
- Pitch black
BUT Neighbour saw lights
Conclusion - OP's testimony is beyond reasonable doubt false. This is therefore DV. Therefore murder.
I recall when I was young and in a new relationship. What I often found myself doing,as well as noticed friends around me doing was testing that new relationship. seeing what made them tick. What buttons created what reaction.
In that process I would sometimes do something inappropriate to her like get pissed up with my mates even though we planned on an early start next morning to go visit somewhere. Or test her reactions to my behaviour. Find out what her boundries where and what I could get away with. Most of my behaviour was not "bad" or where even done consciously.
It is often what young people do to find out about compatibility even if they do not yet know their own minds.
In the case of Reeva and OP they where in the early stages of a relationship that had mostly been conducted via social media,texts and phone due to their busy diaries.
I believe that he had pushed things too far in his narcissistic way and she had decided she wanted out.
And denim for jeans:) they will stick with me long after I've forgotten many of the details.