Identity theft - scare tactics
Amica
Posts: 3,631 Forum Member
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After activating new debit cards , the company questioned my knowledge of identity fraud and told me frightening statistics about how common it is.
They said that I would be liable for money spent unless I could prove otherwise. An example given was that someone could buy a car in my name with a loan agreement. When someone came to my door looking for the money or car, it would be my problem to prove in court that I hadn't taken out an agreement, with all the liability for court costs that would entail.
Surely it should be up to the loan company to prove it was me and not vice versa?
I really didn't appreciate all the scare tactic arguments on a Saturday morning and was able to say no, but think some people may have been scared enough to pay the £80 which would insure me and give me access to Experian.
Can someone please reassure me that, it would not cost me thousands to clear my name should someone use my name and address without my knowledge?
They said that I would be liable for money spent unless I could prove otherwise. An example given was that someone could buy a car in my name with a loan agreement. When someone came to my door looking for the money or car, it would be my problem to prove in court that I hadn't taken out an agreement, with all the liability for court costs that would entail.
Surely it should be up to the loan company to prove it was me and not vice versa?
I really didn't appreciate all the scare tactic arguments on a Saturday morning and was able to say no, but think some people may have been scared enough to pay the £80 which would insure me and give me access to Experian.
Can someone please reassure me that, it would not cost me thousands to clear my name should someone use my name and address without my knowledge?
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It's really tantamount to saying that if you are a victim of crime, the ball is in your court to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn't you who did it yourself.
The actual legal base of what you were told seems highly questionable. All designed to make you part with £80.
A company they employ to activate their debit cards after they have come through the post.
You should let your bank know that the company they are employing are doing this.
e.g. My sister had her id stolen and used to set up a loan - using an address from which she had recently moved, and a name she had stopped using. With a bank with whom she already had an account!!
In my student days someone pinched my chequebook and new cheque card from my student mail box and wrote out £2,000 of cheques before the bank queried it (I had an overdraft facility of £100, ffs, and this was many years ago - writing on the wall, anyone?) - the bank accused ME of theft when they interviewed me - the person signing the cheques, by the way, was a bloke, and I'm not. I changed banks.
More recently someone used my credit card details to purchase £700 flights to Africa in the name of someone completely different. If the card company had checked that transaction out with me, they could have caught the perpetrators at the airport.
It's not rocket science, it would keep more people in employment and I'm positive it would recoup more in lost - stolen - money than it would cost. But I suspect the finanical institutions are insured for these losses so at the end of the day we're all paying ridiculous sums of money for insurance these days - generally - to subsidise that, in the same way as we all pay inflated retail prices to subsidise what's lost through shop-lifting because the stores won't employ enough staff to deter criminals.
[/slightly off topic rant]
I would never, ever sign up to some company using the scare tactics described. :mad:
Nope. You just deny that's your signature. It's then up to them to pursue you through the court and prove that it's your's.
Chances are it'd be significantly different to how you regularly sign your name, which would be easy to prove by showing them a copy of your signature stored at your bank.
The most recent incident was a few months ago where my card details had been skanked from an ATM. Did everything right, noticed odd purchases, told the bank, they cancelled, got refund, new card, everyone happy. Then out of the blue I get a call from the bank telling me exactly the same thing as the poster re. liability and slim chance of getting money back and all this that and the other, unless I signed up to their 'protection plan' and what not.
Unbeknownst to them, I used to work in fraud protection many years ago, and know precisely how the credit companies and banks collude together. When I tried to explain this to the person on the other end of the phone, they seemed absolutely shocked, "But sir, that's wrong, that's wrong," but actually, no, I was right, as I pointed out the legislation that's there to protect the consumer. They gave up on me eventually - I've nothing against people who work in call centres, but when they're working from a script that is clearly designed to panic people instead of help them, well, it gets me annoyed, but it's just their job I suppose.
I know because I was part of it for a while - and it's all about risk management.
They are laying the blame on your doorstep so that they still get their money when things go wrong.
And here is an interesting story for you. Twenty odd years ago a major US bank had a policy of simply refunding all reported stolen funds on credit cards. Why? The $40M a year it cost them ws far cheaper than developing, implementing and running a fraud investigation operation.
The money must flow!
^^^ What WokStation said ^^^
Plus, if it came right down to it (and always assuming that the company chasing you for payment of a fraudulent purchase could actually find* the original agreement that was signed, which in my experience they usually can't), you would be able to insist that any documents they claimed were signed by you be checked for your fingerprints, which wouldn't be found. Case closed.
If I were to hazzard a guess, I'd bet that the next words out of your Debit Card company representative's mouth were about insurance that they could sell you to mitigate any risk?
If you're still worried about it, I'd recommend changing to First Direct bank. A Visa Debit card comes as standard with their accounts now, which is covered by the Visa Chargeback scheme (whereby any unathorised/fraudulent use of your card is explicitly indemnified against, in addition to the existing laws that protect you against fraud with any card).
Basically they are lying in order to get people to buy insurance, I know things are bad in this country but I would have thought a lie to gain insurance was against the law.
Or at least against some industry rule.
No one is legally liable for a fraud committed in their name, the very idea is ridiculous.
There is even some doubt that the liability associated with debit/credit cards used without permission is legal. Just because a bank would struggle to find the culprit does not mean they can help themselves to the customers money. Terms and conditions are not enough if they are illegal.
It should be for a court to decide if a customer was negligent not the bank.
Isn't that Fraud under criminal law?
wht if they got a copy of your signature (like on the back of a card) and practised it to look like yours and it was convincingly good?
Then they'd have to be pretty good forgers, and such people are relatively rare. Most don't care about it being found out about afterwards, they only care about being able to complete the transaction - once that's done, job done as far as they're concerned.
Someone stole my bank statement from a shared postbox many years back. They used the information on it (name, address, account number) to walk into Barclays Bank and withdraw £300 over the counter. He didn't sign my name, he printed it. Barclays asked him for no corresponding identification, they just handed him the money (despite their internal procedures apparently requiring proof of ID for cash withdrawals over £250).
I fortunately noticed the same day, reported it, looked at the signature (the manager was embarrassed by just how different it was) got my money back. The muppet tried to do the same trick the next day and was promptly arrested, charged, convicted and sentenced to 6months in prison.
So that they can still charge you if you haven't cancelled and don't show up. Also so that they can claim money for any damage done to the room or facilities.
It's hardly likely that a bank would risk their money taking you to court if there was genuine dubiety about whether you had entered into a loan - and if your defence was successful, they'd be liable for your costs anyway.
its disgraceful........when i read this thread i just clicked about what happened......
its baloney....etc
If your identity is stolen, firstly the banks and credit card issuers will cover your losses. Secondly the citizens advice bureau will give you help if you need it, and provide templates of the letters you need to write to companies etc.
The insurance companies are just preying on people's fears. Buy yourself a cheap shredder and you'll be fine.
My job was to block and reissue people's credit cards if they had been stolen, and during that traumatic time, I was forced to try and sell them identity protection too, even if it was xmas day and they'd woken up to find they'd been burgled. It was a soul destroying job.
I will look into the watchdog people you mention. The bank/society I'm with is a High Street big name and as all their calls these days are recorded for our protection......