"Ruling by fear" in a house where you can leave anytime?

2

Comments

  • some_body1some_body1 Posts: 244
    Forum Member
    Helen way supersedes being a b*itch! Ashleigh and Helen are not remotely torn from the same cloth.
  • B*witchedB*witched Posts: 5,647
    Forum Member
    some_body1 wrote: »
    Helen way supersedes being a b*itch! Ashleigh and Helen are not remotely torn from the same cloth.

    Helen is loud and in your face, couldn't give a toss and gobs off bitchy, Ashleigh is quietly cutting and more sly in her bitchiness.
  • some_body1some_body1 Posts: 244
    Forum Member
    Is Helen even a human being.... I dont know what she could be classified as..perhaps she is an evolutionary throwback from our primate ancestory :p
  • Syntax ErrorSyntax Error Posts: 27,741
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I agree OP.

    I think that 'ruling by fear' was is a mantra that became a narrative.
  • B*witchedB*witched Posts: 5,647
    Forum Member
    some_body1 wrote: »
    Is Helen even a human being.... I dont know what she could be classified as..perhaps she is an evolutionary throwback from our primate ancestory :p

    Because Helen has her own faults she's not a human being? That's really uncalled for.
  • yogacatsyogacats Posts: 6,954
    Forum Member
    FusionFury wrote: »
    I do think it's overplayed people saying this about Helen, simply for the fact that they could of left anytime if they wanted, but nobody did. It's worse for people who are ruled by fear and have to live in like a prison..

    I don't doubt she's a intimidating presence, but if 18 year old Ashleigh can stand up to her, so could the others had if they wanted.

    Why should someone go because their life is made so miserable by another person! Come of - lets all blame the victims eh? Jog on.
  • GibsonSGGibsonSG Posts: 23,681
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    FusionFury wrote: »
    I do think it's overplayed people saying this about Helen, simply for the fact that they could of left anytime if they wanted, but nobody did. It's worse for people who are ruled by fear and have to live in like a prison..

    I don't doubt she's a intimidating presence, but if 18 year old Ashleigh can stand up to her, so could the others had if they wanted.

    This is a very good point. It's not a prison.
  • B*witchedB*witched Posts: 5,647
    Forum Member
    yogacats wrote: »
    Why should someone go because their life is made so miserable by another person! Come of - lets all blame the victims eh? Jog on.

    I don't think anyone is trying to blame the victims and nor should they. You can't change people but you can change how you choose to respond to them.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,387
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    moleymo wrote: »
    She has been labeled a bully because she is.
    She does intimidate people you are either her friend and agree with her or an enemy and you will be made to feel like shit
    Look at her reaction to Christopher when he didn't invite her to the christmas party
    She screamed at him while her gang laughed at him, she threatened physical violence and spitting in tea arse wiping she nominated him and he was up for eviction
    The bully word that is overused in big brother was genuine in this case it's exactly what she is

    Too true.

    In Helen's world there are only two types of people:
    1) Ones she can manipulate
    2) Mortal enemies
  • fifitrixibellefifitrixibelle Posts: 3,834
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    yogacats wrote: »
    Why should someone go because their life is made so miserable by another person! Come of - lets all blame the victims eh? Jog on.

    Well that's the Helen school of thought, she may behave exactly how she pleases in the most abhorrent manner but it is those that suffer and how they react that get the blame, some seriously messed up thinking and why bullies continue to get away with what they do, because it is easier to pull apart how someone on the receiving end reacts rather than put the focus and disgust at the behaviour of the bully.

    Helen is weak and pathetic, those she bullied acted and behaved with far more strength and maturity.
    She did rule the house, she determined the atmosphere from the the minute she got there...she identified straight away who her nodding cronies would be and identified straight away who were the ones she disliked on the spot and made a determined and sustained effort to make them feel isolated, humiliated, hurt and belittled - also noticeable that she picked on those that were slightly different in appearance to the plastic Tamara and vain Winston, namely Christopher, Jale and Chris..she is not upfront and honest, she is spiteful, cruel and out for herself, she gets her jollies off treating others like sh*te and a kick having her pathetic enablers, churning and giggling along with her....she does this with ease, a seasoned professional, clearly someone who operates in this way in RL...and yet the daft lump does not have the honesty to admit she clearly and deliberately caused a divide in the house.

    HM's themselves have said that she dictated the mood and that they were 'scared' of her, they watched what they said so as not to upset the silly woman and watched as she sucked the joy from the place, the only time she seemed happy was in her gang ripping others to shreds..........again the stupid woman still could not fathom why a good time was being had whilst she was locked in the morgue...I;e because she wasn't there.

    And just when you think her behaviour could not get any more stomach churning we have the delight of seeing the pathetic person weeping and wailing feeling utterly sorry for herself and blaming all and sundry for her behaviour.

    If a person on the receiving end decided they are not going to be bullied into leaving it does not mean that have not been bullied......I expect in the house they can assume to a point that BB will intervene so that leaving is not the only choice.

    The fact remains that for all the deflection for her poor behaviour onto others, for questioning how a bullied person reacts rather the bully...a vote for her is a vote for a bully.
  • FanntastikFanntastik Posts: 12,310
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    What are you trying to say? That if Helen was actually intimidating, then those that are intimidated could have thrown away an experience of a lifetime to get away from her...but because they didn't, Helen isn't intimidating? That doesn't make any sense. They can be "ruled by fear" and still choose to stick it out in the house.
  • mz fitmz fit Posts: 1,168
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Well that's the Helen school of thought, she may behave exactly how she pleases in the most abhorrent manner but it is those that suffer and how they react that get the blame, some seriously messed up thinking and why bullies continue to get away with what they do, because it is easier to pull apart how someone on the receiving end reacts rather than put the focus and disgust at the behaviour of the bully.

    Helen is weak and pathetic, those she bullied acted and behaved with far more strength and maturity.
    She did rule the house, she determined the atmosphere from the the minute she got there...she identified straight away who her nodding cronies would be and identified straight away who were the ones she disliked on the spot and made a determined and sustained effort to make them feel isolated, humiliated, hurt and belittled - also noticeable that she picked on those that were slightly different in appearance to the plastic Tamara and vain Winston, namely Christopher, Jale and Chris..she is not upfront and honest, she is spiteful, cruel and out for herself, she gets her jollies off treating others like sh*te and a kick having her pathetic enablers, churning and giggling along with her....she does this with ease, a seasoned professional, clearly someone who operates in this way in RL...and yet the daft lump does not have the honesty to admit she clearly and deliberately caused a divide in the house.

    HM's themselves have said that she dictated the mood and that they were 'scared' of her, they watched what they said so as not to upset the silly woman and watched as she sucked the joy from the place, the only time she seemed happy was in her gang ripping others to shreds..........again the stupid woman still could not fathom why a good time was being had whilst she was locked in the morgue...I;e because she wasn't there.

    And just when you think her behaviour could not get any more stomach churning we have the delight of seeing the pathetic person weeping and wailing feeling utterly sorry for herself and blaming all and sundry for her behaviour.

    If a person on the receiving end decided they are not going to be bullied into leaving it does not mean that have not been bullied......I expect in the house they can assume to a point that BB will intervene so that leaving is not the only choice.

    The fact remains that for all the deflection for her poor behaviour onto others, for questioning how a bullied person reacts rather the bully...a vote for her is a vote for a bully.

    Best post of the season!
  • AmicaAmica Posts: 3,631
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Well that's the Helen school of thought, she may behave exactly how she pleases in the most abhorrent manner but it is those that suffer and how they react that get the blame, some seriously messed up thinking and why bullies continue to get away with what they do, because it is easier to pull apart how someone on the receiving end reacts rather than put the focus and disgust at the behaviour of the bully.

    Helen is weak and pathetic, those she bullied acted and behaved with far more strength and maturity.
    She did rule the house, she determined the atmosphere from the the minute she got there...she identified straight away who her nodding cronies would be and identified straight away who were the ones she disliked on the spot and made a determined and sustained effort to make them feel isolated, humiliated, hurt and belittled - also noticeable that she picked on those that were slightly different in appearance to the plastic Tamara and vain Winston, namely Christopher, Jale and Chris..she is not upfront and honest, she is spiteful, cruel and out for herself, she gets her jollies off treating others like sh*te and a kick having her pathetic enablers, churning and giggling along with her....she does this with ease, a seasoned professional, clearly someone who operates in this way in RL...and yet the daft lump does not have the honesty to admit she clearly and deliberately caused a divide in the house.

    HM's themselves have said that she dictated the mood and that they were 'scared' of her, they watched what they said so as not to upset the silly woman and watched as she sucked the joy from the place, the only time she seemed happy was in her gang ripping others to shreds..........again the stupid woman still could not fathom why a good time was being had whilst she was locked in the morgue...I;e because she wasn't there.

    And just when you think her behaviour could not get any more stomach churning we have the delight of seeing the pathetic person weeping and wailing feeling utterly sorry for herself and blaming all and sundry for her behaviour.

    If a person on the receiving end decided they are not going to be bullied into leaving it does not mean that have not been bullied......I expect in the house they can assume to a point that BB will intervene so that leaving is not the only choice.

    The fact remains that for all the deflection for her poor behaviour onto others, for questioning how a bullied person reacts rather the bully...a vote for her is a vote for a bully.

    This.

    Whilst I can also see that Ashleigh has bitched about Helen behind her back - and to her face as she got braver - Ashleigh has not been as cruel to the other housemates and at such a sustained level.
  • fifitrixibellefifitrixibelle Posts: 3,834
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    B*witched wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is trying to blame the victims and nor should they. You can't change people but you can change how you choose to respond to them.
    Amica wrote: »
    This.

    Whilst I can also see that Ashleigh has bitched about Helen behind her back - and to her face as she got braver - Ashleigh has not been as cruel to the other housemates and at such a sustained level.

    They have all done that, I suspect we all have.

    But poles apart is the active, purposeful and intentional malice Helen took on sight to Jale, Chris and Christopher, and it's clear the reasons why she did this(considering she had nothing else to go on than how they 'looked' and she thought they were weak and easy pickings. and that in itself is repulsive and shows the measure of the woman)...I mean a 27yr old woman actively selecting her cronies and those she will get her kicks out of bullying is just tragic and weak and cowardly...as is the self pity and wailing of Helen demanding she be given a 'break'. :cry:
  • VeriVeri Posts: 96,996
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    FusionFury wrote: »
    I do think it's overplayed people saying this about Helen, simply for the fact that they could of left anytime if they wanted, but nobody did. It's worse for people who are ruled by fear and have to live in like a prison..

    I don't doubt she's a intimidating presence, but if 18 year old Ashleigh can stand up to her, so could the others had if they wanted.

    So HMs should let her drive them out. Yes, that's a great solution. :mad:
  • Scarlet O'HaraScarlet O'Hara Posts: 6,933
    Forum Member
    Well that's the Helen school of thought, she may behave exactly how she pleases in the most abhorrent manner but it is those that suffer and how they react that get the blame, some seriously messed up thinking and why bullies continue to get away with what they do, because it is easier to pull apart how someone on the receiving end reacts rather than put the focus and disgust at the behaviour of the bully.

    Helen is weak and pathetic, those she bullied acted and behaved with far more strength and maturity.
    She did rule the house, she determined the atmosphere from the the minute she got there...she identified straight away who her nodding cronies would be and identified straight away who were the ones she disliked on the spot and made a determined and sustained effort to make them feel isolated, humiliated, hurt and belittled - also noticeable that she picked on those that were slightly different in appearance to the plastic Tamara and vain Winston, namely Christopher, Jale and Chris..she is not upfront and honest, she is spiteful, cruel and out for herself, she gets her jollies off treating others like sh*te and a kick having her pathetic enablers, churning and giggling along with her....she does this with ease, a seasoned professional, clearly someone who operates in this way in RL...and yet the daft lump does not have the honesty to admit she clearly and deliberately caused a divide in the house.

    HM's themselves have said that she dictated the mood and that they were 'scared' of her, they watched what they said so as not to upset the silly woman and watched as she sucked the joy from the place, the only time she seemed happy was in her gang ripping others to shreds..........again the stupid woman still could not fathom why a good time was being had whilst she was locked in the morgue...I;e because she wasn't there.

    And just when you think her behaviour could not get any more stomach churning we have the delight of seeing the pathetic person weeping and wailing feeling utterly sorry for herself and blaming all and sundry for her behaviour.

    If a person on the receiving end decided they are not going to be bullied into leaving it does not mean that have not been bullied......I expect in the house they can assume to a point that BB will intervene so that leaving is not the only choice.

    The fact remains that for all the deflection for her poor behaviour onto others, for questioning how a bullied person reacts rather the bully...a vote for her is a vote for a bully.

    I actually like Helen. I find her complex, charismatic and damaged and think she's more than the sum of parts you've described. Her moments of vulnerability made me look beyond her surface behaviour to understand what makes a seeming bully like her behave as she did.

    But credit where it's due, you've written a really compelling argument for why she doesn't deserve compassion. Great post.
  • fifitrixibellefifitrixibelle Posts: 3,834
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I actually like Helen. I find her complex, charismatic and damaged and think she's more than the sum of parts you've described. Her moments of vulnerability made me look beyond her surface behaviour to understand what makes a seeming bully like her behave as she did.

    But credit where it's due, you've written a really compelling argument for why she doesn't deserve compassion. Great post.

    I have not argued that she doesn't deserve compassion........I am responding to a thread that intimates that those who were on the receiving end of her behaviour could have left............she has behaved deplorably and an overwhelming feature of bullies and bullying sadly is all to often the onus and behaviour change appears to be on those being bullied.....the impact is far reaching, you have to be either with the bully or suffer/leave. That's the context I'm discussing here...sure bullies have 'issues', I don't think she is complex to be honest and I don't think 'understanding' why she does it should be at the expense of rewriting what she has done and questioning the behaviour of those she saw fit to treat in the manner she did...it appears to be that it has to be one or the other...what I am uncomfortable reading is the compassion/ elevation of her behaviour at the expense of other human beings being humiliated, ostracised and belittled by a pack she selected led by her.
  • Speak-SoftlySpeak-Softly Posts: 24,737
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I have not argued that she doesn't deserve compassion........I am responding to a thread that intimates that those who were on the receiving end of her behaviour could have left............she has behaved deplorably and an overwhelming feature of bullies and bullying sadly is all to often the onus and behaviour change appears to be on those being bullied.....the impact is far reaching, you have to be either with the bully or suffer/leave. That's the context I'm discussing here...sure bullies have 'issues', I don't think she is complex to be honest and I don't think 'understanding' why she does it should be at the expense of rewriting what she has done and questioning the behaviour of those she saw fit to treat in the manner she did...it appears to be that it has to be one or the other...what I am uncomfortable reading is the compassion/ elevation of her behaviour at the expense of other human beings being humiliated, ostracised and belittled by a pack she selected led by her.

    Helen a bully?
    You're having a laugh surely?

    The only "bully" in this series has been BB and they have used Helen as a tool. And they would have used any HM who had been given the eviction immunity the same way.

    She has treated people badly, that doesn't make her a bully, it makes her a person who doesn't like some people.

    Just as all the others have treated all of the others badly at some point.

    Helen was popular.
    Ashleigh (or any of the other HM) wasn't as popular, so couldn't attract enough cohorts, that's the only difference.

    What next?
    Don't dare dislike somebody if you happen to also be liked by many because that means you end up being called a "bully".
  • B*witchedB*witched Posts: 5,647
    Forum Member
    They have all done that, I suspect we all have.

    But poles apart is the active, purposeful and intentional malice Helen took on sight to Jale, Chris and Christopher, and it's clear the reasons why she did this(considering she had nothing else to go on than how they 'looked' and she thought they were weak and easy pickings. and that in itself is repulsive and shows the measure of the woman)...I mean a 27yr old woman actively selecting her cronies and those she will get her kicks out of bullying is just tragic and weak and cowardly...as is the self pity and wailing of Helen demanding she be given a 'break'. :cry:

    Not disagreeing with that at all. I've had plenty of dealings with some very nasty bullies and they definitely should be held accountable especially when they try to play the victim which is both pathetic and infuriating. >:( You can try to point out where they're going wrong and hope they see the light, but people are going to be nice or mean depending on their personality and you can't force them to be anything but themselves. Your only option is to change your reaction. Standing your ground, setting hard boundaries and refusing to stoop to their level have worked for me. And never enabling their pity party is key.
  • dialecticdialectic Posts: 6,949
    Forum Member
    I have not argued that she doesn't deserve compassion........I am responding to a thread that intimates that those who were on the receiving end of her behaviour could have left............she has behaved deplorably and an overwhelming feature of bullies and bullying sadly is all to often the onus and behaviour change appears to be on those being bullied.....the impact is far reaching, you have to be either with the bully or suffer/leave. That's the context I'm discussing here...sure bullies have 'issues', I don't think she is complex to be honest and I don't think 'understanding' why she does it should be at the expense of rewriting what she has done and questioning the behaviour of those she saw fit to treat in the manner she did...it appears to be that it has to be one or the other...what I am uncomfortable reading is the compassion/ elevation of her behaviour at the expense of other human beings being humiliated, ostracised and belittled by a pack she selected led by her.

    The only 'bullying' that went on happened early on and a lot of that was based on who Pauline chose to target. She had the power to see VTs and pronounce judgements on them all. Helen, and many of the others if you remember, took Pauline's word on all this, as if she was some wise old sage. Pauline loaded the gun and Helen, being Helen, shot the bullets.

    I remember things being sorted very quickly between Helen and Chris, when they had a lengthy conversation in the bathroom (Chris quickly came off Pauline's radar anyway). Christopher was treated badly by Pauline initially and Helen continued with the 'he's so annoying tag,' labeling him the 'wasp'. All the HMs at one stage or another called Christopher annoying, notably Chris and Ashleigh.

    Jale was the stand out case for the bullying, once Pauline had her in her sights. Most of the HMs followed suit with Pauline. As she targeted Jale, ,she had all the rest of them eating out of her hand. Helen was the most vocal on Pauline's behalf (Pauline had convinced them all it was Jale's fault) and she would be, after Pauline had given her the pass.
    Jale given the 'super nomination' was bound to be set in contradistinction to Helen and unworthy of saint Pauline's benevolence.

    Once Pauline was gone, it was possible for Jale to approach Helen and Helen could see that she was heavily influenced by her benefactor and apologised. No-one else was bullied as far as I could see. Matthew had a run in with Helen, Danielle did early on and Helen did get annoyed with others invariably as many of them have with each other.,

    If anything, Toya's outburst divided the house (this had nothing to do with Helen and in fact she was quite torn) and Toya's posse segregated themselves.
    It was possibly at this stage though that viewers had been set up to believe that it all must be Helen's fault.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 754
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Well that's the Helen school of thought, she may behave exactly how she pleases in the most abhorrent manner but it is those that suffer and how they react that get the blame, some seriously messed up thinking and why bullies continue to get away with what they do, because it is easier to pull apart how someone on the receiving end reacts rather than put the focus and disgust at the behaviour of the bully.

    Helen is weak and pathetic, those she bullied acted and behaved with far more strength and maturity.
    She did rule the house, she determined the atmosphere from the the minute she got there...she identified straight away who her nodding cronies would be and identified straight away who were the ones she disliked on the spot and made a determined and sustained effort to make them feel isolated, humiliated, hurt and belittled - also noticeable that she picked on those that were slightly different in appearance to the plastic Tamara and vain Winston, namely Christopher, Jale and Chris..she is not upfront and honest, she is spiteful, cruel and out for herself, she gets her jollies off treating others like sh*te and a kick having her pathetic enablers, churning and giggling along with her....she does this with ease, a seasoned professional, clearly someone who operates in this way in RL...and yet the daft lump does not have the honesty to admit she clearly and deliberately caused a divide in the house.

    HM's themselves have said that she dictated the mood and that they were 'scared' of her, they watched what they said so as not to upset the silly woman and watched as she sucked the joy from the place, the only time she seemed happy was in her gang ripping others to shreds..........again the stupid woman still could not fathom why a good time was being had whilst she was locked in the morgue...I;e because she wasn't there.

    And just when you think her behaviour could not get any more stomach churning we have the delight of seeing the pathetic person weeping and wailing feeling utterly sorry for herself and blaming all and sundry for her behaviour.

    If a person on the receiving end decided they are not going to be bullied into leaving it does not mean that have not been bullied......I expect in the house they can assume to a point that BB will intervene so that leaving is not the only choice.

    The fact remains that for all the deflection for her poor behaviour onto others, for questioning how a bullied person reacts rather the bully...a vote for her is a vote for a bully.

    Total agreement with everything you say here. I posted this elsewhere but I'll put it here too........

    I wonder how many Helen supporters would make so many excuses and justifications for her behaviour if they ran into her in the real world. E.g the kid at school bullying your child or the parent that supports it because its just a jaaaawk, the aggressive and abusive neighbour next door, the work colleague that bullies and isolates, the girl in the club who picks a fight because she's drunk (every single week), the woman you discover your husband is paying to have sex with. The list could go on. I don't think the compassion brigade would be quite so generous if they were wrestling with these versions of Helen in their own very real lives. Not at all :p
  • Scarlet O'HaraScarlet O'Hara Posts: 6,933
    Forum Member
    I have not argued that she doesn't deserve compassion........I am responding to a thread that intimates that those who were on the receiving end of her behaviour could have left............she has behaved deplorably and an overwhelming feature of bullies and bullying sadly is all to often the onus and behaviour change appears to be on those being bullied.....the impact is far reaching, you have to be either with the bully or suffer/leave. That's the context I'm discussing here...sure bullies have 'issues', I don't think she is complex to be honest and I don't think 'understanding' why she does it should be at the expense of rewriting what she has done and questioning the behaviour of those she saw fit to treat in the manner she did...it appears to be that it has to be one or the other...what I am uncomfortable reading is the compassion/ elevation of her behaviour at the expense of other human beings being humiliated, ostracised and belittled by a pack she selected led by her.

    Fair enough. What's impressed me about many of those who've spoken in support of Helen on DS is actually the opposite of what you describe. Many haven't 'rewritten' her behaviour, they haven't 'blamed the victim', they haven't endorsed her behaviour, but what they have brought is much needed balance to the at times histrionic and hateful condemnation (e.g. there's been barely a single Helen thread that doesn't have at least one cruel prostitute gag). Not everyone mind, but since she's had a comparatively tiny number of actual 'fans' judging by her performance in each week's polls, I was glad to see at least some people not reduce her or her 'victims' to a caricature.
  • amelie74amelie74 Posts: 9,279
    Forum Member
    Tominxster wrote: »

    If I had to choose between the 2 I would choose Helen as at least she is prepared to see her faults whereas Ashleigh seems to be 'up her own arse'.
    The funny thing is that Ashleigh says that about Helen yet I think it describes herself very well.

    I make some allowances for the fact that Ashleigh is 18yo and just out of school and Helen is a grown woman. She reminds me of me at 18 - stroppy and argumentative - I grew out of it. well more or less! Wonder what Helen was like at 18?
  • Scarlet O'HaraScarlet O'Hara Posts: 6,933
    Forum Member
    Total agreement with everything you say here. I posted this elsewhere but I'll put it here too........

    I wonder how many Helen supporters would make so many excuses and justifications for her behaviour if they ran into her in the real world. E.g the kid at school bullying your child or the parent that supports it because its just a jaaaawk, the aggressive and abusive neighbour next door, the work colleague that bullies and isolates, the girl in the club who picks a fight because she's drunk (every single week), the woman you discover your husband is paying to have sex with. The list could go on. I don't think the compassion brigade would be quite so generous if they were wrestling with these versions of Helen in their own very real lives. Not at all :p

    This is quite prejorative and narrow IMO. I've got plenty of experience with aggressive bullies both at school and at work. I also had an ex-best friend who was so like Helen it's uncanny. She made my life a misery and I ended up having to ditch her but none of that changes how I view Helen. Or if anything, my experiences have softened my own edges.
  • B*witchedB*witched Posts: 5,647
    Forum Member
    Fair enough. What's impressed me about many of those who've spoken in support of Helen on DS is actually the opposite of what you describe. Many haven't 'rewritten' her behaviour, they haven't 'blamed the victim', they haven't endorsed her behaviour, but what they have brought is much needed balance to the at times histrionic and hateful condemnation (e.g. there's been barely a single Helen thread that doesn't have at least one cruel prostitute gag). Not everyone mind, but since she's had a comparatively tiny number of actual 'fans' judging by her performance in each week's polls, I was glad to see at least some people not reduce her or her 'victims' to a caricature.

    Thank you for this post. :)
Sign In or Register to comment.