Posted a response in JJAT but probably makes more sense to reply here.
I have to say no that I couldn't remain supporting him if he declared it was all fake and would be a hypocrite if I did (hoping that statement doesn't come back to bite me on the ass )
I do believe there were genuine feelings that were probably amped up by being in an environment like BB but the relationship hit serious problems prior to Christmas and they never fully recovered.
I'll admit I did change my mind on their relationship during BB. At first I felt John had a dependency on Josie and Josie 'fancied' John but didn't have strong feelings towards him. It was only close to the end of BB11 that I changed my mind on this and thought they would have a chance at a relationship.
Thanks for your reply. BIB: I also think John had a dependency on Josie and I also think that she didn't have strong feelings toward him. However I don't think there was ever a couple relationship. I think she needed him, she wanted to portray a "romance" because she knew that would get them airtime and keep the interest going after BB.
She tried flirting with Nathan in the house first but he wasn't interested so she then went for John, he was the only other suitable male in there. I think she had the whole BB thing planned out, go in as the girl next door, not too bright and doing it for the big girls, having a romance was a bonus.
I've never once believed all this "she's insecure" crap. No girl who is insecure would announce to the house all the men were "er usbands" or spend hours in a bikini in the bath on national TV. Actually that's reminded me what happened to the "little girl lost" thumb sucking? That's miraculously disappeared since she got out of the house. :rolleyes:
There's no way there would have been as much interest in either of them if they were 2 individual BB contestants. The interest has always been "JJJ the couple".
Hello! But if you believe it was over by Christmas that would still mean he (they) was (were) faking it for 1/2 the time. Wouldn't it? Including the Flower Show appearance.
They absolutely had a relationship in the house in that they spent a lot of time hanging out together up until JJ2 arrived anyway. But at no time did he commit to it being a romantic relationship. Certainly the headlines and the stuff they had them do was all poking a stick at the "love story angle". I don't recall him every tweeting Josie is the best girlfriend on the planet for example. Or even voluntarily admitting to her being his girlfriend which of course has more than 1 meaning. He could have said girl friend and she is a girl and she was a friend then this was interpreted as GF as in BF/GF. Sure it's a technicality but IMO relevant.
No I don't believe it was fully over by Christmas but that they were arguing a lot & it probably should have been over and they struggled together. With hindsight looking back at tweets, comments said in interviews and their behaviour in public they were not a couple who were going to last.
I'm not sure if I explaining myself clearly. I have in my head what I want to say but not sure it's coming across written down.
I don't believe they were 'in love' but do think that they confused their feelings during BB and that there was no plan to fool supporters and fake a relationship. I believe that they went into it as a genuine relationship. When they came out of BB they rushed into living together and probably kept the relationship going longer than it should have due to pride, stubbornness, trying to get back to something they thought they had in BB ect...
I don't believe it was a faked relationship and if John James did come out and say it was then no I wouldn't continue supporting him
Thanks for your reply. BIB: I also think John had a dependency on Josie and I also think that she didn't have strong feelings toward him. However I don't think there was ever a couple relationship. I think she needed him, she wanted to portray a "romance" because she knew that would get them airtime and keep the interest going after BB.
She tried flirting with Nathan in the house first but he wasn't interested so she then went for John, he was the only other suitable male in there. I think she had the whole BB thing planned out, go in as the girl next door, not too bright and doing it for the big girls, having a romance was a bonus.
I've never once believed all this "she's insecure" crap. No girl who is insecure would announce to the house all the men were "er usbands" or spend hours in a bikini in the bath on national TV. Actually that's reminded me what happened to the "little girl lost" thumb sucking? That's miraculously disappeared since she got out of the house. :rolleyes:
There's no way there would have been as much interest in either of them if they were 2 individual BB contestants. The interest has always been "JJJ the couple".
BIB. Oh, I'd forgotten about that. I don't recall ever seeing her sucking her thumb since leaving the house either, not on twitcams or either of the shows... interesting.
Thanks for your reply. BIB: I also think John had a dependency on Josie and I also think that she didn't have strong feelings toward him. However I don't think there was ever a couple relationship. I think she needed him, she wanted to portray a "romance" because she knew that would get them airtime and keep the interest going after BB.
She tried flirting with Nathan in the house first but he wasn't interested so she then went for John, he was the only other suitable male in there. I think she had the whole BB thing planned out, go in as the girl next door, not too bright and doing it for the big girls, having a romance was a bonus.
I've never once believed all this "she's insecure" crap. No girl who is insecure would announce to the house all the men were "er usbands" or spend hours in a bikini in the bath on national TV. Actually that's reminded me what happened to the "little girl lost" thumb sucking? That's miraculously disappeared since she got out of the house. :rolleyes:
There's no way there would have been as much interest in either of them if they were 2 individual BB contestants. The interest has always been "JJJ the couple".
She was IMO in it to win it and was willing to go the extra fauxmance route since after all it was handed to them on a plate.
No I don't believe it was fully over by Christmas but that they were arguing a lot & it probably should have been over and they struggled together. With hindsight looking back at tweets, comments said in interviews and their behaviour in public they were not a couple who were going to last.
I'm not sure if I explaining myself clearly. I have in my head what I want to say but not sure it's coming across written down.
I don't believe they were 'in love' but do think that they confused their feelings during BB and that there was no plan to fool supporters and fake a relationship. I believe that they went into it as a genuine relationship. When they came out of BB they rushed into living together and probably kept the relationship going longer than it should have due to pride, stubbornness, trying to get back to something they thought they had in BB ect...
I don't believe it was a faked relationship and if John James did come out and say it was then no I wouldn't continue supporting him
I totally get what you are saying. I feel similar but not quite. I guess I've got a lot of wiggle room in what I feel is over the line. I hate lying so Josie was never going to be someone I liked the behaviour of. She has qualities I admire or would if she didn't use them for pettiness and sometimes evil. She worked him over in the house, giving and then taking away. Supporting him and then withdrawing the support. I see her as a very dominant personality and with all his ranting etc.. I have to say I find John a rather weak personality. Shown in the brightest colours by the fact that Josie was always wary of the Sinister Minister and John sees him like a sort of surrogate father. :eek: She didn't fall for his spiel and John did.
He's always seemed to want to keep the record straight and not always succeeding. So for me admitting to lies is something to like him for as opposed to not liking him because I fell for the lies (that's seems a bit harsh and I don't mean it harshly).
He said he didn't want to lead her on. What else could that mean other than he didn't want her to get the idea that their relationship was going anywhere romantic. He said recently he could not rekindle something that was never there.
I originally liked John because he claimed to hate liars and now I know why he hates liars it's not the same reason I do. For him IMO it's because he's hates being caught out because he believes the lies. And I think Josie told him some right whoppers. (whispers Stockholm Syndrome)
She was IMO in it to win it and was willing to go the extra fauxmance route since after all it was handed to them on a plate.
I totally get what you are saying. I feel similar but not quite. I guess I've got a lot of wiggle room in what I feel is over the line. I hate lying so Josie was never going to be someone I liked the behaviour of. She has qualities I admire or would if she didn't use them for pettiness and sometimes evil. She worked him over in the house, giving and then taking away. Supporting him and then withdrawing the support. I see her as a very dominant personality and with all his ranting etc.. I have to say I find John a rather weak personality. Shown in the brightest colours by the fact that Josie was always wary of the Sinister Minister and John sees him like a sort of surrogate father. :eek: She didn't fall for his spiel and John did.
He's always seemed to want to keep the record straight and not always succeeding. So for me admitting to lies is something to like him for as opposed to not liking him because I fell for the lies (that's seems a bit harsh and I don't mean it harshly).
He said he didn't want to lead her on. What else could that mean other than he didn't want her to get the idea that their relationship was going anywhere romantic. He said recently he could not rekindle something that was never there.
I originally liked John because he claimed to hate liars and now I know why he hates liars it's not the same reason I do. For him IMO it's because he's hates being caught out because he believes the lies. And I think Josie told him some right whoppers. (whispers Stockholm Syndrome)
BIB: that to me is the biggest admission we're going to get about the fauxmance. For John to say "you can't rekindle something that was never there" is admitting there never was a romance to rekindle.
I know he has this big thing about not lying, that's why I wondered if he'd ever said there was a romance or if they were a couple? IMO if you play along with something that's not true (the fauxmance) then that's the same as lying, but I can imagine with John as long as he didn't actually say they were a couple or Josie was his girlfriend he would think he hadn't lied.
Read the 'article', hope it's okay to ramble a bit
If John did such an article I wouldn't be able to support him, although I think I'd follow still to see what the fallout would be, who doesn't love a bit of drama - who needs Hollyoaks with the kind of drama that kind of an article would produce lol
I think that John felt he'd fallen in love with Josie in the BB House. He did say, in the bath towards the end of BB, that Big Brother had asked him if he was in love with Josie and he told her he'd said yes. I think he also did fancy her towards the end - but then maybe that was horniness more than anything else; he certainly wasn't crazed with desire for her - you just have to watch Marky and Grace fanvids to see a couple who want to shag each other
After nearly a year of following these two I am of the opinion that they fell in love with the best of each other (barring the fighting) - and by that I mean that there were no outside influences, not a lot of booze, no access to anything, no friends around, none of their real lives or influences. So you got John without the loys and Fifa and Josie without the muckers and booze. Big Brother eyes as they both said in the House.
However, I also don't think that John quite knows/knew what being 'in love' was, and may have thought that what he was experiencing was in fact that kind of love, but possibly wasn't. Either that, or that love soon faded once they were in the real world.
Then there was the fact that, once in the real world they weren't even going back to their own reality, but into another fake environment - the press, the intrusion into their lives, etc.etc. It wasn't John going back to being John the loy and Josie going back to her family and friends, but completely different lives, him in a different country also, with no family or close friends to rely upon.
Then, too, they were both suddenly together as a couple, faced with the fact that they really didn't know each other, but only a parallel version of each other. They had to get to know the real them and I think that they both soon found that they were completely incompatible and probably didn't like each other very much. Also, too, John was living far away from home, living away from home for the first time ever, dealing with the reality of bills and commitments of other kind. I think he was completely out of his depth in the relationship.
I think they tried but John finally realised it wasn't going to work, came back a couple of times to give it another go, but really in the end they were just too different, too incompatible, for it to ever work. He made the right decision to leave, they were so obviously not working out.
Well those are my thoughts, probably not what you were asking but there you go!
Totally agree with all of this muggins and definitely my feelings as well. I think that there realtionship was under a false environment in the house and as much as they thought that they both loved each other they turned out to be very different on the outside, especially Josie, I think that she was more needy and wanted more attention from John. I also think that she was more the one for the boozing and going out and John would be quite happy to stay home together on their own watching a film or listening to music!
I think that although they were both subborn, they both wanted the relationship to work but that they were just too different in the end and too far apart. I dont think that John liked Josies temper either and he really could live with most things but not Josies temper! I think that Josie was more spitefull and nasty than a lot of people realise and although I will not say that John is a saint I think that he found Josie really hard to live with!
Mind you, it would not have helped with the constant cameras in their faces and the constant photo shoots and greeting fans all the time. Their lives were never their own and it must have been hell on hearth most of the time. Its no wonder the relationship did not work, they never really had enough time together on their own it seems!
BIB: that to me is the biggest admission we're going to get about the fauxmance. For John to say "you can't rekindle something that was never there" is admitting there never was a romance to rekindle.
I know he has this big thing about not lying, that's why I wondered if he'd ever said there was a romance or if they were a couple? IMO if you play along with something that's not true (the fauxmance) then that's the same as lying, but I can imagine with John as long as he didn't actually say they were a couple or Josie was his girlfriend he would think he hadn't lied.
I can't argue this at all but I can mitigate it in that I think he had reasons for going along with it. I believe him when he says he wanted to see Josie good financially. I've heard many many people refer to Josie's horrible time growing up how awful it must have been but I've never seen any signs of this or heard her say anything about it. She seems to be just fine and she has friends who support her no matter what and family that love her. She dated a wealthy man for what was it 5 years and traveled many times to Thailand. Not exactly what I would call a miserable life. Were there tragedies? Yes but who hasn't had that in their lives? But the poor me worked on massive amounts of people so no reason to think it didn't work on John even more so.
Was he the hoaxer, the victim of a hoax? Was he trying to do what he said he would, help Josie get a money stream, on her feet. Which he promised Josie he would do.
I can't argue this at all but I can mitigate it in that I think he had reasons for going along with it. I believe him when he says he wanted to see Josie good financially. I've heard many many people refer to Josie's horrible time growing up how awful it must have been but I've never seen any signs of this or heard her say anything about it. She seems to be just fine and she has friends who support her no matter what and family that love her. She dated a wealthy man for what was it 5 years and traveled many times to Thailand. Not exactly what I would call a miserable life. Were there tragedies? Yes but who hasn't had that in their lives? But the poor me worked on massive amounts of people so no reason to think it didn't work on John even more so.
Was he the hoaxer, the victim of a hoax? Was he trying to do what he said he would, help Josie get a money stream, on her feet. Which he promised Josie he would do.
I may be talking in circles now. Apologies.
I think the idea that Josie had a hard life came from Josie herself. It started in the BB house with her talking about living in a shed in her Aunts yard, when in fact it was an expensive log cabin and her aunt isn't exactly short of a bob or two with her big house and lots of land. She has a large close family who love her and a wide circle of loyal friends too.
One thing that would have made John close to her and want to help is her father's death. He would empathise with that because of his own father's tragic death.
JJ never was in love with her, there was no romance whatsoever. What we witnessed was Josie selling JJ a timeshare. He is very easily emotionally manipulated, she recognised that and used it until she could squeeze no more out of him. Now she is finished with him she's trying to destroy what's left. Psychopath. She is seriously not right in the head.
JJ is confused, needy and in mourning. She took advantage of that. The trouble is that normal people who understand and feel empathy cannot predict that their adversary is a predator who feels no remorse. I remember the first time I was used by someone, it never entered my head for a second that they might do such a thing. It took me about 18 months of racking my brains, asking her friends questions and then meeting up with her again just to understand what had happened. At least she had the grace to apologise when she realised I was still confused. She said I was too naive and that everybody uses people. It was most perplexing because I had never encountered such a thing before and it would never occur to me to do this to anyone else. To me, using other people for your own gain is one of the worst things you can do in life.
You live and learn, as they say. JJ has certainly learned something, lol. He was played like a fiddle on national TV. I think he felt some kind of emotional responsibility to help Josie because of her manipulations but he was never, ever in love or even fancied her.
Josie's entire life is one big lie. The karmic punishment for her actions is having to live like that 24/7. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
I don't believe in having a Mr OBH. I was once described as 'being like a lioness lazing on the Serengetai. Every now and then you stick a paw out and grab an unsuspecting passing young lion as a treat'.:o
Blimey - is that what you were up to when you overbalanced on your flipflops? :eek::p:D
I'm *still* on the old thread (pg. 88 - getting there slowly) but couldn't resist having a skeet in this one and was rewarded by the WTF! Mag reporting & Patsy's editorial wonders
This whole thing as to whether John should confess - I know I posted that I'd love him to, but not long after that struggled with it a bit & then thought nah. My reason was recalling things from when I split up with my ex. Make no mistake, no matter how horrendous life becomes when with an N; it gets a million times worse in the aftermath. Their vindictiveness and urge to destroy (and I mean destroy) goes into orbit, and any hint of anything that might expose their true nature (and never mind the fact that they're running all over town maligning yours) and who knows what they'd be capable of. I know what mine was.
And I also know just how exhausting & empty parts of your heart, mind & soul seem to be, and the unwillingness to - but also strong intuition NOT to - engage in anything more than is absolutely necessary. In some things we don't have a choice but to. But in all the others? No way.
So I say bugger the predictions as to how JJ's fans would respond. Josie's (ubers) would just go even more pyscho, and she'd be straight onto WTF! Magazine to scriss & cry crocodile tears about how Becks cheated her and lead her on, and her just an 'umble country girl an' all. John should keep his silence, and his dignity. We do reap what we sow. So he's reaped what he sowed in thinking six months with a girl mate would be a bit of a laugh and largely harmless, just giving people what they wanted. No, demanded!
And whereas halfway through the last TaserJ Josie was quite happy throwing herself onto (robust) Show House [sic] beds, imagining Johnny James was shagging her, in the full knowledge that he was well out of her mind****ing/soul-destroying clutches; he at least did give a shit, both about Josie (poor sod) and his fans. There was enough evidence of that in his demeanour, his actions, his body language, and even though I'd not taken my own hint previously that he was a NLP wet dream, that was something I quickly brushed up on before re-watching. And what was there? More evidence of his caring & his distress. It was quite awful - really got to me. Think I cried, especially seeing the difference between him and Josie's soul-absence & remembering that NPD is basically spiritual abuse, soul rape. And that the N gets even worse in the aftermath of a split.
My ex was very vindictive when we split, he told all manner of people shit about me. And some of them believed him. (Which made all the 'labelling' accusations on here deeply ironic - sure I was pointing out traits, but if there's ever anyone who has suffered after being properly labelled something they weren't, here I am). Not all believed him (including his BFF - *how* much must that have annoyed him? ) but some did & there was a tell tale look in their expression that made that crystal clear. It was upsetting that these people believed complete lies about me, and there was a real physicality to the pain I used to get knowing that most of the time, there would be no point in trying to fight my corner, nor to even attempt to convey the truth. Because with that look, there's no point. None.
And as humiliating as it is, you just know that the only thing to do to keep your dignity and sanity is to remain silent. With some people there's no telling them. Words won't do. Actions won't do. And you realise that you just have to keep on being you (or should I say, regaining you) until such as time as the N reaps the harvest they had sown & in the fallout of that (which WILL come) they *might* harken back to the day there were judge, jury & executioner in the kangaroo court of the N's making, in which ANYONE takes the blame apart from them.
And that's the thing about psychological abuse, you see. There's no marks, no bruises. Nothing external - asides the abscence of life in the eyes because it's parts of your soul that have been battered and bloodied. It's your mind and intellect that have been dragged along the floor and kicked, and there's no such thing as the luxury of pre-empting such an attack because with psychological abuse it's 24/7/365 and far from honing in on what signs might precipitate a physical beating; in the tip-toeing around the eggshells of psychological abuse, you only learn that you can't even trust yourself. Oh - and that they are so 'convincing' in what they say to others, that said others get to dish it out by proxy, sometimes unintentionally & quite unwittingly. Hell, [sic] with time & subtlety he even gets your own mind to join in with that bit...
Any physical stuff is 'kept for later' - like any 'good' torturer they know the physical stuff is far more effective after the disorientation & dehumanising attack on the mind.
[Did that answer a long-ago question?]
There is a part of us that demands justice and the truth to be known. But we just have to be patient with that, and allow it to happen in it's own time - which as sure as night follows day, it will. In the meantime, silence & no contact is welcome healing space for the abused to recover in. And you know when that's working when you see the light finally back in your eyes......anyone else notice that one with John? (Another reason why i think he was quite damaged even before going in)
Btw, I think it's unfair to drag up the YouTube days. That's even more in the past than Josie Gibson is to him. Hopefully from this he'll finally deal with his grief and keep on growing and moving through life in a much more healthy and positive way. He might have come in on a plane from Oz, but for all intents and purposes, that pre-BB entry trip might just have been his personal road to Damascus.
I'm not sure what it is about the human condition that we tend to look for and expect/hope for 'doors to open' as a representation of opportunities arising. But srsly ppl, sometimes that can only happen if we shut a few doors first.
JJ never was in love with her, there was no romance whatsoever. What we witnessed was Josie selling JJ a timeshare. He is very easily emotionally manipulated, she recognised that and used it until she could squeeze no more out of him. Now she is finished with him she's trying to destroy what's left. Psychopath. She is seriously not right in the head.
JJ is confused, needy and in mourning. She took advantage of that. The trouble is that normal people who understand and feel empathy cannot predict that their adversary is a predator who feels no remorse. I remember the first time I was used by someone, it never entered my head for a second that they might do such a thing. It took me about 18 months of racking my brains, asking her friends questions and then meeting up with her again just to understand what had happened. At least she had the grace to apologise when she realised I was still confused. She said I was too naive and that everybody uses people. It was most perplexing because I had never encountered such a thing before and it would never occur to me to do this to anyone else. To me, using other people for your own gain is one of the worst things you can do in life.
You live and learn, as they say. JJ has certainly learned something, lol. He was played like a fiddle on national TV. I think he felt some kind of emotional responsibility to help Josie because of her manipulations but he was never, ever in love or even fancied her.
Josie's entire life is one big lie. The karmic punishment for her actions is having to live like that 24/7. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
Ok I have read the made up interview....and although I do still think that the relationship was actually real..
and that they did fall in love with each other within the house and live together properly and try to make their relationship work.
I think with hindsight Happy tree' s analysis will be the one that John and his friends will chose to believe.
Josie was using him.
So ultimately Josie will be the one getting all the BIB. If im being fair, im not sure that Josie was completely using him, I htink she also cared deeply about John, but her own insecurities and the place she was in, wanting fame and money, more than a boyfriend and relationship, ended up pushing him away.
As a person I care and like John so much more than Josie, that I wouldnt care if he came out and said something similar, although I do think as fox mistress has suggested, that continued silence is his best policy.
He needs time and space to reinvent himself and come back stronger, in whatever he chooses to do.....:D
his relationship with Josie doesnt have anything to do with his future.....(unlike Josie who is going to have to cling onto BB and her ex relationship so that people continue to know who she is..)
John is in a much stronger place than she is...just look at where they both could be in 2 or 3 years time.
I was watching the interview with Dave grohl of the Foo fighters last night. He is someone I have seen to be so underestimated in the press, he is percieved as a really nice guy who just got lucky. And in a similar way I think that some of the media and fans have underestimated John James big time.
When you watch that interview you realise that even though Dave Grohl is a nice guy, he also worked really really hard to make music and create a band that sounded the way he wanted it too, even going to the lengths of rerecording drum tracks to erase the drummer who originally did them, cos he didnt like it....!!!
Its interesting how being percieved as nice or nasty changes perceptions !!!
The implication of the website statement (see ellemay link above) all proceeds raised from the event will go to charity is not clear on whether Josie is getting an attendance fee. The event is 'in association with Clic Sargent Scotland'.
If it said all profits then this would assume money over after any attendance fees had been paid. But proceeds can be 'gross' ie before iare deducted; or 'net', after deductions.
She got an appearance fee at the FS and in Ireland. Evidently there are only so many events a celebrity can do for nothing. I understand she also got expenses paid for.
The proceeds will be from the auction and raffle. The organizers have to pay for the venue, the food, Josie's appearance and expenses disco and karyoke and incidental expenses like table decorations.
She was IMO in it to win it and was willing to go the extra fauxmance route since after all it was handed to them on a plate.
I totally get what you are saying. I feel similar but not quite. I guess I've got a lot of wiggle room in what I feel is over the line. I hate lying so Josie was never going to be someone I liked the behaviour of. She has qualities I admire or would if she didn't use them for pettiness and sometimes evil. She worked him over in the house, giving and then taking away. Supporting him and then withdrawing the support. I see her as a very dominant personality and with all his ranting etc.. I have to say I find John a rather weak personality. Shown in the brightest colours by the fact that Josie was always wary of the Sinister Minister and John sees him like a sort of surrogate father. :eek: She didn't fall for his spiel and John did.
He's always seemed to want to keep the record straight and not always succeeding. So for me admitting to lies is something to like him for as opposed to not liking him because I fell for the lies (that's seems a bit harsh and I don't mean it harshly).
He said he didn't want to lead her on. What else could that mean other than he didn't want her to get the idea that their relationship was going anywhere romantic. He said recently he could not rekindle something that was never there.
I originally liked John because he claimed to hate liars and now I know why he hates liars it's not the same reason I do. For him IMO it's because he's hates being caught out because he believes the lies. And I think Josie told him some right whoppers. (whispers Stockholm Syndrome)
Josie and Dave spent much of BB circling each other like dogs. They each new exactly what the other was about. Josie had a few attempts in the early days (gay marriage ... oooh, did I start that ... silly me ... what I am like) to get his mask to slip, but Dave is as adept as she is as keeping the front in place - with the help of a few well chosen catchphrases - he knew what she was about, she recognised that and moved on.
If any pairing in the BB house were birds of a feather it was that 2 ... and actually says quite a lot about John James that they were two he gave his loyalty too
Have just read WTF - if I didn't know bettter I would have believed it.
I have to say I agree with most of the Foxmistresse's post. I think there is a lot of emotional damage that has been done to John. I agree he is doing the right thing by keeping quiet and ignoring for the most part the silly nasty tweets he is getting.
In hindsight, I do question the wisdom of letting John go into the BB house in the first place - I wonder what psychological tests applicants really take. To me he always seemed very vulnerable and I think some of his frustration etc was that he had never come to terms with his grief over the death of his father. The reason I say this is I know someone just like John who reacted in a very similar way and once he got some counselling, he was a different person. Compared with the other housemates John really did have a very sheltered life - very small circle of friends who although they did go on a major trip together, John never seemed to have the 'street knowledge' (for lack of a better word) that the other housemates - even Ben - had.
As to the relationship with Josie. I have always believed John loved her. Whatever Josie felt for John it certainly wasn't love. Even in the house. I expect once they started living with each other the cracks started to show and by Xmas it was over. Josie, I feel, never put much into the relationship, indeed the 'contract' between the two of them implied that it was Josie's way or no way.
In any case, we don't know what really happened between the two of them and we never will. We can only debate what our impressions and analysis of what we have seen and read. I wish John happiness. I hope he comes back to the UK to live. I hope Josie gets some serious counselling to deal with her issues and I hope the nastiness on twitter stops. JJJ is finished, each are entitled to live their lives how they want to and I hope the uber fans and Mr M realize that soon.
Blimey - is that what you were up to when you overbalanced on your flipflops? :eek::p:D
I'm *still* on the old thread (pg. 88 - getting there slowly) but couldn't resist having a skeet in this one and was rewarded by the WTF! Mag reporting & Patsy's editorial wonders
This whole thing as to whether John should confess - I know I posted that I'd love him to, but not long after that struggled with it a bit & then thought nah. My reason was recalling things from when I split up with my ex. Make no mistake, no matter how horrendous life becomes when with an N; it gets a million times worse in the aftermath. Their vindictiveness and urge to destroy (and I mean destroy) goes into orbit, and any hint of anything that might expose their true nature (and never mind the fact that they're running all over town maligning yours) and who knows what they'd be capable of. I know what mine was.
And I also know just how exhausting & empty parts of your heart, mind & soul seem to be, and the unwillingness to - but also strong intuition NOT to - engage in anything more than is absolutely necessary. In some things we don't have a choice but to. But in all the others? No way.
So I say bugger the predictions as to how JJ's fans would respond. Josie's (ubers) would just go even more pyscho, and she'd be straight onto WTF! Magazine to scriss & cry crocodile tears about how Becks cheated her and lead her on, and her just an 'umble country girl an' all. John should keep his silence, and his dignity. We do reap what we sow. So he's reaped what he sowed in thinking six months with a girl mate would be a bit of a laugh and largely harmless, just giving people what they wanted. No, demanded!
And whereas halfway through the last TaserJ Josie was quite happy throwing herself onto (robust) Show House [sic] beds, imagining Johnny James was shagging her, in the full knowledge that he was well out of her mind****ing/soul-destroying clutches; he at least did give a shit, both about Josie (poor sod) and his fans. There was enough evidence of that in his demeanour, his actions, his body language, and even though I'd not taken my own hint previously that he was a NLP wet dream, that was something I quickly brushed up on before re-watching. And what was there? More evidence of his caring & his distress. It was quite awful - really got to me. Think I cried, especially seeing the difference between him and Josie's soul-absence & remembering that NPD is basically spiritual abuse, soul rape. And that the N gets even worse in the aftermath of a split.
My ex was very vindictive when we split, he told all manner of people shit about me. And some of them believed him. (Which made all the 'labelling' accusations on here deeply ironic - sure I was pointing out traits, but if there's ever anyone who has suffered after being properly labelled something they weren't, here I am). Not all believed him (including his BFF - *how* much must that have annoyed him? ) but some did & there was a tell tale look in their expression that made that crystal clear. It was upsetting that these people believed complete lies about me, and there was a real physicality to the pain I used to get knowing that most of the time, there would be no point in trying to fight my corner, nor to even attempt to convey the truth. Because with that look, there's no point. None.
And as humiliating as it is, you just know that the only thing to do to keep your dignity and sanity is to remain silent. With some people there's no telling them. Words won't do. Actions won't do. And you realise that you just have to keep on being you (or should I say, regaining you) until such as time as the N reaps the harvest they had sown & in the fallout of that (which WILL come) they *might* harken back to the day there were judge, jury & executioner in the kangaroo court of the N's making, in which ANYONE takes the blame apart from them.
And that's the thing about psychological abuse, you see. There's no marks, no bruises. Nothing external - asides the abscence of life in the eyes because it's parts of your soul that have been battered and bloodied. It's your mind and intellect that have been dragged along the floor and kicked, and there's no such thing as the luxury of pre-empting such an attack because with psychological abuse it's 24/7/365 and far from honing in on what signs might precipitate a physical beating; in the tip-toeing around the eggshells of psychological abuse, you only learn that you can't even trust yourself. Oh - and that they are so 'convincing' in what they say to others, that said others get to dish it out by proxy, sometimes unintentionally & quite unwittingly. Hell, [sic] with time & subtlety he even gets your own mind to join in with that bit...
Any physical stuff is 'kept for later' - like any 'good' torturer they know the physical stuff is far more effective after the disorientation & dehumanising attack on the mind.
[Did that answer a long-ago question?]
There is a part of us that demands justice and the truth to be known. But we just have to be patient with that, and allow it to happen in it's own time - which as sure as night follows day, it will. In the meantime, silence & no contact is welcome healing space for the abused to recover in. And you know when that's working when you see the light finally back in your eyes......anyone else notice that one with John? (Another reason why i think he was quite damaged even before going in)
Btw, I think it's unfair to drag up the YouTube days. That's even more in the past than Josie Gibson is to him. Hopefully from this he'll finally deal with his grief and keep on growing and moving through life in a much more healthy and positive way. He might have come in on a plane from Oz, but for all intents and purposes, that pre-BB entry trip might just have been his personal road to Damascus.
I'm not sure what it is about the human condition that we tend to look for and expect/hope for 'doors to open' as a representation of opportunities arising. But srsly ppl, sometimes that can only happen if we shut a few doors first.
Back later - Just want to say this is superb work, SpankTheMonkey. And the 'article' is improved by the decision to donate the interview fee to an alternative charity (not going to spoil it for court members reading for the first time!)
Blimey - is that what you were up to when you overbalanced on your flipflops? :eek::p:D
I'm *still* on the old thread (pg. 88 - getting there slowly) but couldn't resist having a skeet in this one and was rewarded by the WTF! Mag reporting & Patsy's editorial wonders
This whole thing as to whether John should confess - I know I posted that I'd love him to, but not long after that struggled with it a bit & then thought nah. My reason was recalling things from when I split up with my ex. Make no mistake, no matter how horrendous life becomes when with an N; it gets a million times worse in the aftermath. Their vindictiveness and urge to destroy (and I mean destroy) goes into orbit, and any hint of anything that might expose their true nature (and never mind the fact that they're running all over town maligning yours) and who knows what they'd be capable of. I know what mine was.
And I also know just how exhausting & empty parts of your heart, mind & soul seem to be, and the unwillingness to - but also strong intuition NOT to - engage in anything more than is absolutely necessary. In some things we don't have a choice but to. But in all the others? No way.
So I say bugger the predictions as to how JJ's fans would respond. Josie's (ubers) would just go even more pyscho, and she'd be straight onto WTF! Magazine to scriss & cry crocodile tears about how Becks cheated her and lead her on, and her just an 'umble country girl an' all. John should keep his silence, and his dignity. We do reap what we sow. So he's reaped what he sowed in thinking six months with a girl mate would be a bit of a laugh and largely harmless, just giving people what they wanted. No, demanded!
And whereas halfway through the last TaserJ Josie was quite happy throwing herself onto (robust) Show House [sic] beds, imagining Johnny James was shagging her, in the full knowledge that he was well out of her mind****ing/soul-destroying clutches; he at least did give a shit, both about Josie (poor sod) and his fans. There was enough evidence of that in his demeanour, his actions, his body language, and even though I'd not taken my own hint previously that he was a NLP wet dream, that was something I quickly brushed up on before re-watching. And what was there? More evidence of his caring & his distress. It was quite awful - really got to me. Think I cried, especially seeing the difference between him and Josie's soul-absence & remembering that NPD is basically spiritual abuse, soul rape. And that the N gets even worse in the aftermath of a split.
My ex was very vindictive when we split, he told all manner of people shit about me. And some of them believed him. (Which made all the 'labelling' accusations on here deeply ironic - sure I was pointing out traits, but if there's ever anyone who has suffered after being properly labelled something they weren't, here I am). Not all believed him (including his BFF - *how* much must that have annoyed him? ) but some did & there was a tell tale look in their expression that made that crystal clear. It was upsetting that these people believed complete lies about me, and there was a real physicality to the pain I used to get knowing that most of the time, there would be no point in trying to fight my corner, nor to even attempt to convey the truth. Because with that look, there's no point. None.
And as humiliating as it is, you just know that the only thing to do to keep your dignity and sanity is to remain silent. With some people there's no telling them. Words won't do. Actions won't do. And you realise that you just have to keep on being you (or should I say, regaining you) until such as time as the N reaps the harvest they had sown & in the fallout of that (which WILL come) they *might* harken back to the day there were judge, jury & executioner in the kangaroo court of the N's making, in which ANYONE takes the blame apart from them.
And that's the thing about psychological abuse, you see. There's no marks, no bruises. Nothing external - asides the abscence of life in the eyes because it's parts of your soul that have been battered and bloodied. It's your mind and intellect that have been dragged along the floor and kicked, and there's no such thing as the luxury of pre-empting such an attack because with psychological abuse it's 24/7/365 and far from honing in on what signs might precipitate a physical beating; in the tip-toeing around the eggshells of psychological abuse, you only learn that you can't even trust yourself. Oh - and that they are so 'convincing' in what they say to others, that said others get to dish it out by proxy, sometimes unintentionally & quite unwittingly. Hell, [sic] with time & subtlety he even gets your own mind to join in with that bit...
Any physical stuff is 'kept for later' - like any 'good' torturer they know the physical stuff is far more effective after the disorientation & dehumanising attack on the mind.
[Did that answer a long-ago question?]
There is a part of us that demands justice and the truth to be known. But we just have to be patient with that, and allow it to happen in it's own time - which as sure as night follows day, it will. In the meantime, silence & no contact is welcome healing space for the abused to recover in. And you know when that's working when you see the light finally back in your eyes......anyone else notice that one with John? (Another reason why i think he was quite damaged even before going in)
Btw, I think it's unfair to drag up the YouTube days. That's even more in the past than Josie Gibson is to him. Hopefully from this he'll finally deal with his grief and keep on growing and moving through life in a much more healthy and positive way. He might have come in on a plane from Oz, but for all intents and purposes, that pre-BB entry trip might just have been his personal road to Damascus.
I'm not sure what it is about the human condition that we tend to look for and expect/hope for 'doors to open' as a representation of opportunities arising. But srsly ppl, sometimes that can only happen if we shut a few doors first.
So slam them John, SLAM them!
Oh I love it when I turn on my computer and your name is staring at me, because I know it will be a brilliant read and full of insight. I can agree with everything you say regards Josie the N, where I differ however is that I think you give John far too much credibility as being a victim in it all.
I dont see him that way at all, to me he is everybit as much the liar as she is, albeit he tries to cover his lies with cryptic messages and subterfuge, he says he hates liars, I think it would be more truthful of him to say he hates being lied to..........I dont think it worries him too much about lying as much as it does him being SEEN to be one, hence why he boxed himself into the relationship without having had the nouse to really understand how bad Josie really was.
Thats his real problem here, I dont think he was manipulated into his actions by Josie, he wanted the fame everybit as muchas her and he was willing to con and lie to get it, he just does not want to be seen as being false or a liar. His ego cant take it, he thought he could handle it and it must have been like a thunderbolt when he realised so soon just how bad Josie was, still he kept coming back for more, and why would that be..............well imo because he still wanted the famedom and fans that he thought he deserved.
He researched BB and wanted desperately to grab some fame, he has no talent so it really was all that was open to him..............and I dont think we should disregard the youtube account of Achilles James, it gives us real insight to the real John James, his true charachter unlike the one he hides behind, I think he truly would love to be brave enough to come clean,but he is not sadly, and imo its only because he cannot face outing himself as a liar and deciever, nothing else, I dont think he would worry about throwing Josie to the dogs, but his ego will not let him damage his own reputation as he sees himself as highly moral and honest when in truth he is far far from it.:)
This is a superb point. Let's take it further and imagine her doing all her put downs in the female version of Ben's accent.
"Dahhling, just look at this revolting necklace. I wouldn't give it to my maid. Hmm... perhaps the chain can be saved."
She would be the most hated HM of all time. Just as Skippy could never have survived as a nerdy-looking keyboard warrior, Josephoney would have been out on her ear.
Good morning court
Yes Totally agree,I also think Josie knows the accent Disarms a lot of people.Totally we saw it so many times people with the same personality as Josie with a less countryfile Accent become loathed and evicted very quickly.
I'd like to put in the witness box all the JJ1 supporters who visit court.
The question I'd like answered:
If John James now confessed that JJJ had been virtually all fakery, and that he'd only done it because when they left the house he genuinely wanted to help out 'big sis' Josie, but the idea of living with her beyond six months was unbearable so escaped, how would you feel?
I ask this because it is my belief that the majority of JJ1 fans would continue to support him, and that some would actually be relieved that he hadn't been deeply involved with Gibson.
Morning Court I swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth according to me which may or may not be the real truth but is for me. Nervously states I do think there were certain elements of fakery in the "relationship" especially after Christmas and maybe as early as after Johns visit home back in October. As he watched the highlights and got his mums and friends views on what they had seen and lets face it I bet he watched some of the live feed stuff that had been captured as well probably only backed up niggling doubts he had. So not doing a long post hence why just lurk and enjoy the humour of this thread:o but in summing up would say whether he faked some of the relationship or most the biggest faker was his ex as I seriously doubt she ever saw him as anything more than a good looker and a means to an end of making money!
Races out of the court thread before embarrasses self further. Keep up the good work and yes would still support John James as he isnt perfect no one is but is a good complex character and my BB previous tastes ran to Pete Bennett and Marcus from BB10:eek:
Can I take this opportunity to thank all the posters on page 7 for a great read with many thoughts to consider and mull over,
I support John and think it was as real for him as it could be considering the unreal circumstances of the romance, and think that josie although one could admire and appreciate her for her ability to do all the right things to winBB and achieve fame of sorts (I said could, I don't) never bothered about John on any level other than someone to use to attain her goals.
Morning Court I swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth according to me which may or may not be the real truth but is for me. Nervously states I do think there were certain elements of fakery in the "relationship" especially after Christmas and maybe as early as after Johns visit home back in October. As he watched the highlights and got his mums and friends views on what they had seen and lets face it I bet he watched some of the live feed stuff that had been captured as well probably only backed up niggling doubts he had. So not doing a long post hence why just lurk and enjoy the humour of this thread:o but in summing up would say whether he faked some of the relationship or most the biggest faker was his ex as I seriously doubt she ever saw him as anything more than a good looker and a means to an end of making money!
Races out of the court thread before embarrasses self further. Keep up the good work and yes would still support John James as he isnt perfect no one is but is a good complex character and my BB previous tastes ran to Pete Bennett and Marcus from BB10:eek:
Bib do you like the characters that need a counsellor or self help group:D They are indeed complex and many layers of emotional buggage. Pete was he the won who went with Nikki
Morning Court I swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth according to me which may or may not be the real truth but is for me. Nervously states I do think there were certain elements of fakery in the "relationship" especially after Christmas and maybe as early as after Johns visit home back in October. As he watched the highlights and got his mums and friends views on what they had seen and lets face it I bet he watched some of the live feed stuff that had been captured as well probably only backed up niggling doubts he had. So not doing a long post hence why just lurk and enjoy the humour of this thread:o but in summing up would say whether he faked some of the relationship or most the biggest faker was his ex as I seriously doubt she ever saw him as anything more than a good looker and a means to an end of making money!
Races out of the court thread before embarrasses self further. Keep up the good work and yes would still support John James as he isnt perfect no one is but is a good complex character and my BB previous tastes ran to Pete Bennett and Marcus from BB10:eek:
Race back in and carry on posting.
I'll choose to ignore your previous addictions. :D:D
Mostly, I have 'collected' footballers, so younger. They have small brains, are fit and have nothing to do in between training sessions and matches. In return I have helped them fill out complicated forms and the like. This has nothing to do with the case.
Bib
I am just nosey bastard
Though I do know this nice young fella 25 and he quite tall, blonde and a football looky likey and he has a rather Australian accent if your interested, runs away before the Ob gets the stun guns out:eek::D:p
Comments
BIB: I also think John had a dependency on Josie and I also think that she didn't have strong feelings toward him. However I don't think there was ever a couple relationship. I think she needed him, she wanted to portray a "romance" because she knew that would get them airtime and keep the interest going after BB.
She tried flirting with Nathan in the house first but he wasn't interested so she then went for John, he was the only other suitable male in there. I think she had the whole BB thing planned out, go in as the girl next door, not too bright and doing it for the big girls, having a romance was a bonus.
I've never once believed all this "she's insecure" crap. No girl who is insecure would announce to the house all the men were "er usbands" or spend hours in a bikini in the bath on national TV. Actually that's reminded me what happened to the "little girl lost" thumb sucking? That's miraculously disappeared since she got out of the house. :rolleyes:
There's no way there would have been as much interest in either of them if they were 2 individual BB contestants. The interest has always been "JJJ the couple".
No I don't believe it was fully over by Christmas but that they were arguing a lot & it probably should have been over and they struggled together. With hindsight looking back at tweets, comments said in interviews and their behaviour in public they were not a couple who were going to last.
I'm not sure if I explaining myself clearly. I have in my head what I want to say but not sure it's coming across written down.
I don't believe they were 'in love' but do think that they confused their feelings during BB and that there was no plan to fool supporters and fake a relationship. I believe that they went into it as a genuine relationship. When they came out of BB they rushed into living together and probably kept the relationship going longer than it should have due to pride, stubbornness, trying to get back to something they thought they had in BB ect...
I don't believe it was a faked relationship and if John James did come out and say it was then no I wouldn't continue supporting him
BIB. Oh, I'd forgotten about that. I don't recall ever seeing her sucking her thumb since leaving the house either, not on twitcams or either of the shows... interesting.
I totally get what you are saying. I feel similar but not quite. I guess I've got a lot of wiggle room in what I feel is over the line. I hate lying so Josie was never going to be someone I liked the behaviour of. She has qualities I admire or would if she didn't use them for pettiness and sometimes evil. She worked him over in the house, giving and then taking away. Supporting him and then withdrawing the support. I see her as a very dominant personality and with all his ranting etc.. I have to say I find John a rather weak personality. Shown in the brightest colours by the fact that Josie was always wary of the Sinister Minister and John sees him like a sort of surrogate father. :eek: She didn't fall for his spiel and John did.
He's always seemed to want to keep the record straight and not always succeeding. So for me admitting to lies is something to like him for as opposed to not liking him because I fell for the lies (that's seems a bit harsh and I don't mean it harshly).
He said he didn't want to lead her on. What else could that mean other than he didn't want her to get the idea that their relationship was going anywhere romantic. He said recently he could not rekindle something that was never there.
I originally liked John because he claimed to hate liars and now I know why he hates liars it's not the same reason I do. For him IMO it's because he's hates being caught out because he believes the lies. And I think Josie told him some right whoppers. (whispers Stockholm Syndrome)
I know he has this big thing about not lying, that's why I wondered if he'd ever said there was a romance or if they were a couple? IMO if you play along with something that's not true (the fauxmance) then that's the same as lying, but I can imagine with John as long as he didn't actually say they were a couple or Josie was his girlfriend he would think he hadn't lied.
Totally agree with all of this muggins and definitely my feelings as well. I think that there realtionship was under a false environment in the house and as much as they thought that they both loved each other they turned out to be very different on the outside, especially Josie, I think that she was more needy and wanted more attention from John. I also think that she was more the one for the boozing and going out and John would be quite happy to stay home together on their own watching a film or listening to music!
I think that although they were both subborn, they both wanted the relationship to work but that they were just too different in the end and too far apart. I dont think that John liked Josies temper either and he really could live with most things but not Josies temper! I think that Josie was more spitefull and nasty than a lot of people realise and although I will not say that John is a saint I think that he found Josie really hard to live with!
Mind you, it would not have helped with the constant cameras in their faces and the constant photo shoots and greeting fans all the time. Their lives were never their own and it must have been hell on hearth most of the time. Its no wonder the relationship did not work, they never really had enough time together on their own it seems!
Was he the hoaxer, the victim of a hoax? Was he trying to do what he said he would, help Josie get a money stream, on her feet. Which he promised Josie he would do.
I may be talking in circles now. Apologies.
One thing that would have made John close to her and want to help is her father's death. He would empathise with that because of his own father's tragic death.
JJ is confused, needy and in mourning. She took advantage of that. The trouble is that normal people who understand and feel empathy cannot predict that their adversary is a predator who feels no remorse. I remember the first time I was used by someone, it never entered my head for a second that they might do such a thing. It took me about 18 months of racking my brains, asking her friends questions and then meeting up with her again just to understand what had happened. At least she had the grace to apologise when she realised I was still confused. She said I was too naive and that everybody uses people. It was most perplexing because I had never encountered such a thing before and it would never occur to me to do this to anyone else. To me, using other people for your own gain is one of the worst things you can do in life.
You live and learn, as they say. JJ has certainly learned something, lol. He was played like a fiddle on national TV. I think he felt some kind of emotional responsibility to help Josie because of her manipulations but he was never, ever in love or even fancied her.
Josie's entire life is one big lie. The karmic punishment for her actions is having to live like that 24/7. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
Actually, thanks to OBH for the inspiration and plagiarism, hope you don't mind.
WTF Cover
WTF Page 1
WTF Page 2
Blimey - is that what you were up to when you overbalanced on your flipflops? :eek::p:D
I'm *still* on the old thread (pg. 88 - getting there slowly) but couldn't resist having a skeet in this one and was rewarded by the WTF! Mag reporting & Patsy's editorial wonders
This whole thing as to whether John should confess - I know I posted that I'd love him to, but not long after that struggled with it a bit & then thought nah. My reason was recalling things from when I split up with my ex. Make no mistake, no matter how horrendous life becomes when with an N; it gets a million times worse in the aftermath. Their vindictiveness and urge to destroy (and I mean destroy) goes into orbit, and any hint of anything that might expose their true nature (and never mind the fact that they're running all over town maligning yours) and who knows what they'd be capable of. I know what mine was.
And I also know just how exhausting & empty parts of your heart, mind & soul seem to be, and the unwillingness to - but also strong intuition NOT to - engage in anything more than is absolutely necessary. In some things we don't have a choice but to. But in all the others? No way.
So I say bugger the predictions as to how JJ's fans would respond. Josie's (ubers) would just go even more pyscho, and she'd be straight onto WTF! Magazine to scriss & cry crocodile tears about how Becks cheated her and lead her on, and her just an 'umble country girl an' all. John should keep his silence, and his dignity. We do reap what we sow. So he's reaped what he sowed in thinking six months with a girl mate would be a bit of a laugh and largely harmless, just giving people what they wanted. No, demanded!
And whereas halfway through the last TaserJ Josie was quite happy throwing herself onto (robust) Show House [sic] beds, imagining Johnny James was shagging her, in the full knowledge that he was well out of her mind****ing/soul-destroying clutches; he at least did give a shit, both about Josie (poor sod) and his fans. There was enough evidence of that in his demeanour, his actions, his body language, and even though I'd not taken my own hint previously that he was a NLP wet dream, that was something I quickly brushed up on before re-watching. And what was there? More evidence of his caring & his distress. It was quite awful - really got to me. Think I cried, especially seeing the difference between him and Josie's soul-absence & remembering that NPD is basically spiritual abuse, soul rape. And that the N gets even worse in the aftermath of a split.
My ex was very vindictive when we split, he told all manner of people shit about me. And some of them believed him. (Which made all the 'labelling' accusations on here deeply ironic - sure I was pointing out traits, but if there's ever anyone who has suffered after being properly labelled something they weren't, here I am). Not all believed him (including his BFF - *how* much must that have annoyed him?
And as humiliating as it is, you just know that the only thing to do to keep your dignity and sanity is to remain silent. With some people there's no telling them. Words won't do. Actions won't do. And you realise that you just have to keep on being you (or should I say, regaining you) until such as time as the N reaps the harvest they had sown & in the fallout of that (which WILL come) they *might* harken back to the day there were judge, jury & executioner in the kangaroo court of the N's making, in which ANYONE takes the blame apart from them.
And that's the thing about psychological abuse, you see. There's no marks, no bruises. Nothing external - asides the abscence of life in the eyes because it's parts of your soul that have been battered and bloodied. It's your mind and intellect that have been dragged along the floor and kicked, and there's no such thing as the luxury of pre-empting such an attack because with psychological abuse it's 24/7/365 and far from honing in on what signs might precipitate a physical beating; in the tip-toeing around the eggshells of psychological abuse, you only learn that you can't even trust yourself. Oh - and that they are so 'convincing' in what they say to others, that said others get to dish it out by proxy, sometimes unintentionally & quite unwittingly. Hell, [sic] with time & subtlety he even gets your own mind to join in with that bit...
Any physical stuff is 'kept for later' - like any 'good' torturer they know the physical stuff is far more effective after the disorientation & dehumanising attack on the mind.
[Did that answer a long-ago question?]
There is a part of us that demands justice and the truth to be known. But we just have to be patient with that, and allow it to happen in it's own time - which as sure as night follows day, it will. In the meantime, silence & no contact is welcome healing space for the abused to recover in. And you know when that's working when you see the light finally back in your eyes......anyone else notice that one with John? (Another reason why i think he was quite damaged even before going in)
Btw, I think it's unfair to drag up the YouTube days. That's even more in the past than Josie Gibson is to him. Hopefully from this he'll finally deal with his grief and keep on growing and moving through life in a much more healthy and positive way. He might have come in on a plane from Oz, but for all intents and purposes, that pre-BB entry trip might just have been his personal road to Damascus.
I'm not sure what it is about the human condition that we tend to look for and expect/hope for 'doors to open' as a representation of opportunities arising. But srsly ppl, sometimes that can only happen if we shut a few doors first.
So slam them John, SLAM them!
Ok I have read the made up interview....and although I do still think that the relationship was actually real..
and that they did fall in love with each other within the house and live together properly and try to make their relationship work.
I think with hindsight Happy tree' s analysis will be the one that John and his friends will chose to believe.
Josie was using him.
So ultimately Josie will be the one getting all the BIB. If im being fair, im not sure that Josie was completely using him, I htink she also cared deeply about John, but her own insecurities and the place she was in, wanting fame and money, more than a boyfriend and relationship, ended up pushing him away.
As a person I care and like John so much more than Josie, that I wouldnt care if he came out and said something similar, although I do think as fox mistress has suggested, that continued silence is his best policy.
He needs time and space to reinvent himself and come back stronger, in whatever he chooses to do.....:D
his relationship with Josie doesnt have anything to do with his future.....(unlike Josie who is going to have to cling onto BB and her ex relationship so that people continue to know who she is..)
John is in a much stronger place than she is...just look at where they both could be in 2 or 3 years time.
I was watching the interview with Dave grohl of the Foo fighters last night. He is someone I have seen to be so underestimated in the press, he is percieved as a really nice guy who just got lucky. And in a similar way I think that some of the media and fans have underestimated John James big time.
When you watch that interview you realise that even though Dave Grohl is a nice guy, he also worked really really hard to make music and create a band that sounded the way he wanted it too, even going to the lengths of rerecording drum tracks to erase the drummer who originally did them, cos he didnt like it....!!!
Its interesting how being percieved as nice or nasty changes perceptions !!!
Bloody brilliant.:D:D:D
You, OBH and Pats, should be the ones working on dirty Dessy's mags..
Is there any wonder this thread is now on part 11, when it has FM's like you lot.
She got an appearance fee at the FS and in Ireland. Evidently there are only so many events a celebrity can do for nothing. I understand she also got expenses paid for.
The proceeds will be from the auction and raffle. The organizers have to pay for the venue, the food, Josie's appearance and expenses disco and karyoke and incidental expenses like table decorations.
Josie and Dave spent much of BB circling each other like dogs. They each new exactly what the other was about. Josie had a few attempts in the early days (gay marriage ... oooh, did I start that ... silly me ... what I am like) to get his mask to slip, but Dave is as adept as she is as keeping the front in place - with the help of a few well chosen catchphrases - he knew what she was about, she recognised that and moved on.
If any pairing in the BB house were birds of a feather it was that 2 ... and actually says quite a lot about John James that they were two he gave his loyalty too
Have just read WTF - if I didn't know bettter I would have believed it.
I have to say I agree with most of the Foxmistresse's post. I think there is a lot of emotional damage that has been done to John. I agree he is doing the right thing by keeping quiet and ignoring for the most part the silly nasty tweets he is getting.
In hindsight, I do question the wisdom of letting John go into the BB house in the first place - I wonder what psychological tests applicants really take. To me he always seemed very vulnerable and I think some of his frustration etc was that he had never come to terms with his grief over the death of his father. The reason I say this is I know someone just like John who reacted in a very similar way and once he got some counselling, he was a different person. Compared with the other housemates John really did have a very sheltered life - very small circle of friends who although they did go on a major trip together, John never seemed to have the 'street knowledge' (for lack of a better word) that the other housemates - even Ben - had.
As to the relationship with Josie. I have always believed John loved her. Whatever Josie felt for John it certainly wasn't love. Even in the house. I expect once they started living with each other the cracks started to show and by Xmas it was over. Josie, I feel, never put much into the relationship, indeed the 'contract' between the two of them implied that it was Josie's way or no way.
In any case, we don't know what really happened between the two of them and we never will. We can only debate what our impressions and analysis of what we have seen and read. I wish John happiness. I hope he comes back to the UK to live. I hope Josie gets some serious counselling to deal with her issues and I hope the nastiness on twitter stops. JJJ is finished, each are entitled to live their lives how they want to and I hope the uber fans and Mr M realize that soon.
Great post TFM... the BIB is Josie to a tee
Back later - Just want to say this is superb work, SpankTheMonkey. And the 'article' is improved by the decision to donate the interview fee to an alternative charity
Oh I love it when I turn on my computer and your name is staring at me, because I know it will be a brilliant read and full of insight. I can agree with everything you say regards Josie the N, where I differ however is that I think you give John far too much credibility as being a victim in it all.
I dont see him that way at all, to me he is everybit as much the liar as she is, albeit he tries to cover his lies with cryptic messages and subterfuge, he says he hates liars, I think it would be more truthful of him to say he hates being lied to..........I dont think it worries him too much about lying as much as it does him being SEEN to be one, hence why he boxed himself into the relationship without having had the nouse to really understand how bad Josie really was.
Thats his real problem here, I dont think he was manipulated into his actions by Josie, he wanted the fame everybit as muchas her and he was willing to con and lie to get it, he just does not want to be seen as being false or a liar. His ego cant take it, he thought he could handle it and it must have been like a thunderbolt when he realised so soon just how bad Josie was, still he kept coming back for more, and why would that be..............well imo because he still wanted the famedom and fans that he thought he deserved.
He researched BB and wanted desperately to grab some fame, he has no talent so it really was all that was open to him..............and I dont think we should disregard the youtube account of Achilles James, it gives us real insight to the real John James, his true charachter unlike the one he hides behind, I think he truly would love to be brave enough to come clean,but he is not sadly, and imo its only because he cannot face outing himself as a liar and deciever, nothing else, I dont think he would worry about throwing Josie to the dogs, but his ego will not let him damage his own reputation as he sees himself as highly moral and honest when in truth he is far far from it.:)
Good morning court
Yes Totally agree,I also think Josie knows the accent Disarms a lot of people.Totally we saw it so many times people with the same personality as Josie with a less countryfile Accent become loathed and evicted very quickly.
Morning Court I swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth according to me which may or may not be the real truth but is for me. Nervously states I do think there were certain elements of fakery in the "relationship" especially after Christmas and maybe as early as after Johns visit home back in October. As he watched the highlights and got his mums and friends views on what they had seen and lets face it I bet he watched some of the live feed stuff that had been captured as well probably only backed up niggling doubts he had. So not doing a long post hence why just lurk and enjoy the humour of this thread:o but in summing up would say whether he faked some of the relationship or most the biggest faker was his ex as I seriously doubt she ever saw him as anything more than a good looker and a means to an end of making money!
Races out of the court thread before embarrasses self further. Keep up the good work and yes would still support John James as he isnt perfect no one is but is a good complex character and my BB previous tastes ran to Pete Bennett and Marcus from BB10:eek:
I support John and think it was as real for him as it could be considering the unreal circumstances of the romance, and think that josie although one could admire and appreciate her for her ability to do all the right things to winBB and achieve fame of sorts (I said could, I don't) never bothered about John on any level other than someone to use to attain her goals.
Bib do you like the characters that need a counsellor or self help group:D They are indeed complex and many layers of emotional buggage. Pete was he the won who went with Nikki
Race back in and carry on posting.
I'll choose to ignore your previous addictions.
Bib
Though I do know this nice young fella 25 and he quite tall, blonde and a football looky likey and he has a rather Australian accent if your interested, runs away before the Ob gets the stun guns out:eek::D:p