I've managed to stick with it to see how it turns out, but I've never seen such an unprepossessing hero - he's just deathly, like stone, completely unconnected.
Does it look like I have trouble finding words to describe my impression of him? I do.
Yeah this is the exact problem I have with him - can't really say much about him as a character after 10 eps.
It's such a breath of fresh air. Almost all (esp US TV & film) are based around a strong alpha male leader 'type' (with dark hair, deep voice, ready quips) who every woman finds attractive and every man wants to be.
This story is about a shadowy group infesting the centres of power in a small country - it doesn't need to follow anyone's expectations (set by other tv/film) of the person investigating them. Why expect a hero ?
Geradi has clear aims, he's principled and quick-witted and fit enough to chase and fight and makes a good central character.
If this had been set in the UK, he'd have been the perfect East End villain! I can only hope that he gets his just deserts especially after arranging for the murders of public prosecutor Persigal and his loyal secretary, Yolande.
I'm also with Normandie above - the coincidental meeting with Gil Wolfs' daughter was perhaps stretching credibility a bit too far but I'll see how things go. I do have a theory about why Wolfs is going after Salamander members and is trying to destroy that organisation:
I agree with elfcurry - and disagree with Wout completely! (Although I wouldn't know about what programming the Flemish are good - or bad - at!)
Gerardi clearly doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve, but the emotion is there. He touches his wife's jewellery (having asked a nurse to retrieve it for him); he has tears in his eyes when embracing his daughter. After his initial suspicion, we felt and continue to feel his loyalty towards Persigal. We understand his mixed feeling towards Adams. There is plenty of characterisation: it's just not "in your face".
Gerardi's ally Carl Cassimon is another complex character, although not as convincing as Gerardi himself. In fact, Gerardi's character is much more complex than we see in most TV/movie cops.
I'd much rather have the quiet determination of Gerardi than the brashness of Bruce Willis' character(s?)!
On the other hand, I would agree that some characters have been little more than caricatures: the vamp Karin Rasenberg, the soulless Jonkhere, for example.
For me, the storyline is tenaciously gripping, the main characters interesting. If there are weaknesses, they are in the coincidences already discussed and the lack of development or detail in the secondary characters.
Hear hear. Salamander is an embarassment to good television. It's an untypical genre for Flemish TV (conspiracy thriller) but it's done so badly on all levels it beggars belief. I wonder how drunk the BBC representatives were when they decided to acquire this unmitigated garbage.
Perhaps it came as part of a package of other stuff, on the BOGOF principle
It's such a breath of fresh air. Almost all (esp US TV & film) are based around a strong alpha male leader 'type' (with dark hair, deep voice, ready quips) who every woman finds attractive and every man wants to be.
This story is about a shadowy group infesting the centres of power in a small country - it doesn't need to follow anyone's expectations (set by other tv/film) of the person investigating them. Why expect a hero ?
Geradi has clear aims, he's principled and quick-witted and fit enough to chase and fight and makes a good central character.
Erm....I'm not expecting a 'hero' - that wasn't my word - it was the other poster's. Don't think that I am keen on him being portrayed as an alpha male - my favourite cops are actually Sarah Lund and Saga Noren and I far prefer Scandi dramas to US stuff (which I don't even watch very often). So not sure why people are assuming that those of us who are not impressed by Gerardi's characterisation would instead like a typical macho lead or someone who is 'in your face' - I simply would like him to have more quirks/idiosyncrasies even like Kurt Wallander.
I do find Gerardi a very dull lead character - the characterisation in this show is generally poor but it's even worse when the lead has no discernible personality. If you think he does then we'll simply have to agree to disagree. With most great fictional cop characters I can remember how they first appeared in the story - it sticks in my mind e.g. Sarah Lund was planning on leaving Denmark and moving to Sweden until a case kept her back. I can't even recall how Gerardi first appeared in the narrative such is his blank nature.
I can't even recall how Gerardi first appeared in the narrative such is his blank nature.
I think it was when he and his wife were in bed and she had to get up to go to work, and he was trying to persuade her to stay in bed with him a bit longer?
I find Gerardi a bit of an enigma when it comes to his characterisation and reaction to events.
On the one hand, I like to think that the character is being portrayed as a man who has to continue his fight against Salamander (especially as his daughter is at risk if he doesn't win) and who is therefore holding back on most of his grief until he is able to succumb to it.
But on the other hand, I wonder if, with that summation, I am giving actor Filip Peeters, or the series director, more credit than deserved...
Nevertheless, I am enjoying Salamander and am quite happy to see it out to the conclusion tomorrow evening.
I do agree re the plot holes and poor sub-characters, and it is nowhere near the best crime thriller ever shown on BBC4. But I find it engaging enough to be watchable.
And, after all, there are only 2 episodes left to go...:)
For me, none of the characters seem to drawn you in, or you want know more about, a very cold and remote type writing/direction style has seen to that.
As for the plot moving forward aside from the back story I am glad they have given the episodes numbers or might of felt it was moving backwards at times.
Having said that I will be tuning in.:)
... not sure why people are assuming that those of us who are not impressed by Gerardi's characterisation would instead like a typical macho lead or someone who is 'in your face'
"People" is presumably me, as I mentioned Bruce Willis and used the term "in your face". My username appears top left of each post.
I made no such assumption. I simply said that I much prefer, etc. I'm sorry you feel that you were somehow included amongst those who enjoy Willis.
I don't. He is different. Reserved. Steadfast. Determined. Loyal. Brave. Dogged. Discreet. Unassuming. Cautious. Perhaps introspective. Patient. Experienced. Some of this would apply to another popular detective, Saga Norén, but he is without an obvious character-defining facet like her Asperger's (or similar - nothing confirmed by show's producers). We are not always shown obvious light-bulb moments as we sometimes were with Saga, and so again, his character is not hidden, exactly, but not magnified for dramatic purposes, either.
... the lead has no discernible personality. If you think he does then we'll simply have to agree to disagree.
We do disagree. But "no discernible personality"? I think you could be missing something. Hence my comments above. That's not meant to be offensive, but I see so much in him ...
I think it would also be true to say that even the villains of the series are also painted in muted colours, as it were. It would be interesting, given that, to read what it is that attracts you to the series and keeps you watching.
I can't even recall how Gerardi first appeared in the narrative such is his blank nature.
Already answered by another contributor. I remembered, too. It revealed immediately how a marriage that didn't lack love but did lack empathy and understanding was to affect him, direct the storyline to some degree and provide a continuous theme of love and loyalty.
Maybe you think I'm reading too much into it? Could be!
I've watched it from the beginning and it's ok, nothing amazing but enjoyable.
The problem I have with it is the portrayal of the female characters, very weak with most of them dead or lusting after Gerardi after a few minutes of talking to him!!
"People" is presumably me, as I mentioned Bruce Willis and used the term "in your face". My username appears top left of each post.
I made no such assumption. I simply said that I much prefer, etc. I'm sorry you feel that you were somehow included amongst those who enjoy Willis.
Yes I obviously did mean you when I said 'people'. Not really a need for you to be so rude as to say 'My username appears top left of each post' is there? I just couldn't really be bothered to cross reference who said what because to me this whole discussion isn't worth a great deal of effort although most of my points were aimed at elfcurry as I wrote most of my post before even reading yours (I went back and edited afterwards). Why wouldn't I be included in the people you were talking about who are supposed to enjoy Willis? It came across (not just in your post either) that you meant that if viewers in general don't like how Gerardi has been characterised, they must instead want a macho kind of lead so I was correcting that view. You wrote:
I'd much rather have the quiet determination of Gerardi than the brashness of Bruce Willis' character(s?)!
Yes you did indeed use the 'I' form yet you're contrasting one type of character with another; thus (despite the use of 'I'), implicit in your argument is the notion that those people who don't like Gerardi must of course prefer a Bruce Willis kind of character. If you didn't mean that then you should have expressed yourself more clearly.
Why are you interested in why I am continuing to watch the show anyway? All I said was that I don't think the lead has been written very well but, if you must know, there are other aspects to a show aside from characterisation that can make it watchable enough - the main one being the plot.
Oh and I'm not missing anything (the cheek of it!) merely because I find him a very poorly written character thanks. He's almost a blank slate so people can project whatever they want onto him - maybe that's the point although I think that's being too kind to the writer(s). I don't think I would have got a First in English literature if I routinely 'missed something' with characterisation. It's 'cause of my love for literature that poor characterisation irritates me no end.
I also saw that another poster explained how Gerardi first appeared in the narrative and of course I remembered that afterwards. However my point was that that should have stuck in my mind - as it has with others shows - and it didn't. The fact that it did for you just shows how once again we disagree that he is an interesting or engaging character.
Anyway I'm not getting any further into this petty exchange - won't bother with your posts anymore. To be honest I don't like your tone - claiming you're not meaning to be offensive etc. That's like the ol' "I don't mean to be rude but...." line when the person then goes on to be rude. It's all very British and passive aggressive.
I still stick to my opinion that Gerardi is an extremely dull and lifeless lead who certainly isn't going to go down in history as one of the great fictional detectives.
As you say, we will have to agree to disagree. I'm afraid that despite your qualifications, you have misinterpreted my intentions. You say I didn't express myself well enough. Well, we can always express ourselves better, but this was a forum post, not a dissertation.
And I did consider you rude in referring to me as "people".
I liked the series until the last episode which looked as if it had a plan and then in the last 20 minutes somebody said "we have to get to a conclusion, some gunfights, end this story and then we can set the seeds for a new one"
The gunfights were a bit clunky but they've been like that most of this series, unnecessary camera angles and slow motion just made it look stupid in the last episode. Also, unless I missed something (perhaps the bullet that Dewulf pulled out of his clothes? Klaus end up not hitting him or did he have a bullet vest on?) how the hell did he drive a car when somebody had sniped him and he was bleeding? Pretty sure I've probably answered the queston though
a decent series but the ending was a bit too rushed
Salamander was ok. Good enough to entice me to keep watching, but not up to the standard of some of those Scandi dramas. Nor was it a patch on the current brilliant British tv drama, Line Of Duty, due to conclude this week. Now there's one that falls into the 'great cop drama' category.
Also, unless I missed something (perhaps the bullet that Dewulf pulled out of his clothes? Klaus end up not hitting him or did he have a bullet vest on?) how the hell did he drive a car when somebody had sniped him and he was bleeding? Pretty sure I've probably answered the queston though
The bullet had significance from his childhood, I think - I remember him acquiring it (from his dad, I think) but can't remember the exact circumstances. Anyway, it was one of those Items Of Great Personal Significance, hence he had it with him.
As to being blasted by a sniper's bullet (I'm sure he was and that a bullet-proof vest wasn't involved - would it stop a sniper's round anyway?) and then driving off to kill someone who didn't shoot your dad... well, conspiracy shows are like that, aren't they?! Ultimately bonkers!
Comments
This story is about a shadowy group infesting the centres of power in a small country - it doesn't need to follow anyone's expectations (set by other tv/film) of the person investigating them. Why expect a hero ?
Geradi has clear aims, he's principled and quick-witted and fit enough to chase and fight and makes a good central character.
Gerardi clearly doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve, but the emotion is there. He touches his wife's jewellery (having asked a nurse to retrieve it for him); he has tears in his eyes when embracing his daughter. After his initial suspicion, we felt and continue to feel his loyalty towards Persigal. We understand his mixed feeling towards Adams. There is plenty of characterisation: it's just not "in your face".
Gerardi's ally Carl Cassimon is another complex character, although not as convincing as Gerardi himself. In fact, Gerardi's character is much more complex than we see in most TV/movie cops.
I'd much rather have the quiet determination of Gerardi than the brashness of Bruce Willis' character(s?)!
On the other hand, I would agree that some characters have been little more than caricatures: the vamp Karin Rasenberg, the soulless Jonkhere, for example.
For me, the storyline is tenaciously gripping, the main characters interesting. If there are weaknesses, they are in the coincidences already discussed and the lack of development or detail in the secondary characters.
Perhaps it came as part of a package of other stuff, on the BOGOF principle
Erm....I'm not expecting a 'hero' - that wasn't my word - it was the other poster's. Don't think that I am keen on him being portrayed as an alpha male - my favourite cops are actually Sarah Lund and Saga Noren and I far prefer Scandi dramas to US stuff (which I don't even watch very often). So not sure why people are assuming that those of us who are not impressed by Gerardi's characterisation would instead like a typical macho lead or someone who is 'in your face' - I simply would like him to have more quirks/idiosyncrasies even like Kurt Wallander.
I do find Gerardi a very dull lead character - the characterisation in this show is generally poor but it's even worse when the lead has no discernible personality. If you think he does then we'll simply have to agree to disagree. With most great fictional cop characters I can remember how they first appeared in the story - it sticks in my mind e.g. Sarah Lund was planning on leaving Denmark and moving to Sweden until a case kept her back. I can't even recall how Gerardi first appeared in the narrative such is his blank nature.
I think it was when he and his wife were in bed and she had to get up to go to work, and he was trying to persuade her to stay in bed with him a bit longer?
On the one hand, I like to think that the character is being portrayed as a man who has to continue his fight against Salamander (especially as his daughter is at risk if he doesn't win) and who is therefore holding back on most of his grief until he is able to succumb to it.
But on the other hand, I wonder if, with that summation, I am giving actor Filip Peeters, or the series director, more credit than deserved...
Nevertheless, I am enjoying Salamander and am quite happy to see it out to the conclusion tomorrow evening.
I do agree re the plot holes and poor sub-characters, and it is nowhere near the best crime thriller ever shown on BBC4. But I find it engaging enough to be watchable.
And, after all, there are only 2 episodes left to go...:)
I don't dislike it generally; it's watchable enough - just not up to the usual BBC4 crime drama standard.
As for the plot moving forward aside from the back story I am glad they have given the episodes numbers or might of felt it was moving backwards at times.
Having said that I will be tuning in.:)
Fox hasn't aired Braquo S3 yet. Starts on 14th April according to this site
http://www.tvguide.co.uk/upcomingairdates.asp
Braquo on BBC4 ? That's passed me by - unless you mean Spiral/Engrenages/Gears?
I made no such assumption. I simply said that I much prefer, etc. I'm sorry you feel that you were somehow included amongst those who enjoy Willis.
Fair enough. I like the character as he is. Director and actor got it right for me.
I don't. He is different. Reserved. Steadfast. Determined. Loyal. Brave. Dogged. Discreet. Unassuming. Cautious. Perhaps introspective. Patient. Experienced. Some of this would apply to another popular detective, Saga Norén, but he is without an obvious character-defining facet like her Asperger's (or similar - nothing confirmed by show's producers). We are not always shown obvious light-bulb moments as we sometimes were with Saga, and so again, his character is not hidden, exactly, but not magnified for dramatic purposes, either.
We do disagree. But "no discernible personality"? I think you could be missing something. Hence my comments above. That's not meant to be offensive, but I see so much in him ...
I think it would also be true to say that even the villains of the series are also painted in muted colours, as it were. It would be interesting, given that, to read what it is that attracts you to the series and keeps you watching.
Already answered by another contributor. I remembered, too. It revealed immediately how a marriage that didn't lack love but did lack empathy and understanding was to affect him, direct the storyline to some degree and provide a continuous theme of love and loyalty.
Maybe you think I'm reading too much into it? Could be!
Thanks. Braquo on BBC 4 was more hope than anything else lol. Looks like I'll have to watch it on DVD again.
The problem I have with it is the portrayal of the female characters, very weak with most of them dead or lusting after Gerardi after a few minutes of talking to him!!
Yes I obviously did mean you when I said 'people'. Not really a need for you to be so rude as to say 'My username appears top left of each post' is there? I just couldn't really be bothered to cross reference who said what because to me this whole discussion isn't worth a great deal of effort although most of my points were aimed at elfcurry as I wrote most of my post before even reading yours (I went back and edited afterwards). Why wouldn't I be included in the people you were talking about who are supposed to enjoy Willis? It came across (not just in your post either) that you meant that if viewers in general don't like how Gerardi has been characterised, they must instead want a macho kind of lead so I was correcting that view. You wrote:
Yes you did indeed use the 'I' form yet you're contrasting one type of character with another; thus (despite the use of 'I'), implicit in your argument is the notion that those people who don't like Gerardi must of course prefer a Bruce Willis kind of character. If you didn't mean that then you should have expressed yourself more clearly.
Why are you interested in why I am continuing to watch the show anyway? All I said was that I don't think the lead has been written very well but, if you must know, there are other aspects to a show aside from characterisation that can make it watchable enough - the main one being the plot.
Oh and I'm not missing anything (the cheek of it!) merely because I find him a very poorly written character thanks. He's almost a blank slate so people can project whatever they want onto him - maybe that's the point although I think that's being too kind to the writer(s). I don't think I would have got a First in English literature if I routinely 'missed something' with characterisation. It's 'cause of my love for literature that poor characterisation irritates me no end.
I also saw that another poster explained how Gerardi first appeared in the narrative and of course I remembered that afterwards. However my point was that that should have stuck in my mind - as it has with others shows - and it didn't. The fact that it did for you just shows how once again we disagree that he is an interesting or engaging character.
Anyway I'm not getting any further into this petty exchange - won't bother with your posts anymore. To be honest I don't like your tone - claiming you're not meaning to be offensive etc. That's like the ol' "I don't mean to be rude but...." line when the person then goes on to be rude. It's all very British and passive aggressive.
I still stick to my opinion that Gerardi is an extremely dull and lifeless lead who certainly isn't going to go down in history as one of the great fictional detectives.
And I did consider you rude in referring to me as "people".
End of contributions from me.
Watchable but I'm kind of glad it's over.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?p=71757979#post71757979
The gunfights were a bit clunky but they've been like that most of this series, unnecessary camera angles and slow motion just made it look stupid in the last episode. Also, unless I missed something (perhaps the bullet that Dewulf pulled out of his clothes? Klaus end up not hitting him or did he have a bullet vest on?) how the hell did he drive a car when somebody had sniped him and he was bleeding?
a decent series but the ending was a bit too rushed
Is he some kind of mutant that can heal?
As to being blasted by a sniper's bullet (I'm sure he was and that a bullet-proof vest wasn't involved - would it stop a sniper's round anyway?) and then driving off to kill someone who didn't shoot your dad... well, conspiracy shows are like that, aren't they?! Ultimately bonkers!