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Suits - Season 4 (US Pace)

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    NihongaNihonga Posts: 10,618
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    Parthenon wrote: »
    Really enjoyed that episode. Excellent stuff from Rick Hoffman.

    Louis's rage is certainly understandable. What he did to get fired pales in comparison to the fraud that Harvey has continued to perpetuate, putting every single case the firm works on at risk. Will we get to see Pearson Specter Litt? I hope so! That'd create a very interesting work environment.

    I didn't even pick up on the key thing. :blush: Mike even asked about it twice and it didn't occur to me that he really should know about it!


    I hope this doesn't mean the end for Katrina. Louis is going to need someone loyal if he makes named partner. Apparently Amanda Schull is currently filming her new show on Syfy, 12 Monkeys, so I wonder if her schedule might be incompatible. Another Suits actor, Zeljko Ivanek (Eric Widdall) is also starring in 12 Monkeys, so we may not see him again either, although that wouldn't be a surprise after he no doubt had to resign from the SEC.

    Nor me! It was quite clever the way the writers chose to reveal the truth to Louis about Mike. So unexpected. With all that news about Amanda, I hope we don't lose Katrina. I've really come to like her character. She has evolved rather well unlike Rachel who seems to have been stuck in a rut.
    Louis wanting back in doesn't actually make a lot of sense since he'd become knowingly complicit in Mike being retained and employed by the firm, particularly since he hired him back. That puts him under the gun by re-hiring a fraud.

    Oh, I think it makes perfect sense. Pearson Spector is his life and much of what it has become is down to his work as well as Harvey and Jessica. For that reason alone, he has as much right to ask of the partnership. It also makes sense concerning Mike. Now that main characters know the truth and are complicit in enabling it or concealing it, no-one will go out of their way to squeal to the legal authorities. I'm not sure that Jessica and Harvey will get off that lightly just because it was who Louis re-hired Mike. They are just as complicit. And besides, Louis re-hired Mike before he found out the truth. It would make better sense if he sacked Mike now that he knows the truth, but I doubt he'll go that far.

    And as for laundering money, how will that ever come out? The SEC buried the case once they found out who was behind the malicious vendetta against Pearson Spector.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,660
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    Nihonga wrote: »
    Nor me! It was quite clever the way the writers chose to reveal the truth to Louis about Mike. So unexpected. With all that news about Amanda, I hope we don't lose Katrina. I've really come to like her character. She has evolved rather well unlike Rachel who seems to have been stuck in a rut.



    Oh, I think it makes perfect sense. Pearson Spector is his life and much of what it has become is down to his work as well as Harvey and Jessica. For that reason alone, he has as much right to ask of the partnership. It also makes sense concerning Mike. Now that main characters know the truth and are complicit in enabling it or concealing it, no-one will go out of their way to squeal to the legal authorities. I'm not sure that Jessica and Harvey will get off that lightly just because it was who Louis re-hired Mike. They are just as complicit. And besides, Louis re-hired Mike before he found out the truth. It would make better sense if he sacked Mike now that he knows the truth, but I doubt he'll go that far.

    And as for laundering money, how will that ever come out? The SEC buried the case once they found out who was behind the malicious vendetta against Pearson Spector.
    You are correct he re-hired Mike before he knew the truth, but it could be argued that once Harvey and Jessica knew, they sought to offload him for the sake of the firm. I believe that was a key point of contention as to why Harvey felt Mike should have went to the other company, so that there was no longer a risk to either of them. Louis on the other hand brought the fraud back into the fold and they could argue it was specifically to use Mike as leverage to get the senior partnership he was refused by Jessica. Also Louis was the one romantically involved with an admin at Harvard, he was the only with with direct access to their records thanks to his girlfriend and her computers. They can spin it that Louis was in on the fix, particularly since when he looked in her files he didn't find Mike's records previously. Harvey and Jessica are smart and they can make Louis appear just as dirty as he would be trying to make them look. They could even spin it that Forstman paid Louis off to use Mike as a Trojan horse against Pearson Spector, bringing back the person that can take them all down.
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    NihongaNihonga Posts: 10,618
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    You are correct he re-hired Mike before he knew the truth, but it could be argued that once Harvey and Jessica knew, they sought to offload him for the sake of the firm. I believe that was a key point of contention as to why Harvey felt Mike should have went to the other company, so that there was no longer a risk to either of them. Louis on the other hand brought the fraud back into the fold and they could argue it was specifically to use Mike as leverage to get the senior partnership he was refused by Jessica. Also Louis was the one romantically involved with an admin at Harvard, he was the only with with direct access to their records thanks to his girlfriend and her computers. They can spin it that Louis was in on the fix, particularly since when he looked in her files he didn't find Mike's records previously. Harvey and Jessica are smart and they can make Louis appear just as dirty as he would be trying to make them look. They could even spin it that Forstman paid Louis off to use Mike as a Trojan horse against Pearson Spector, bringing back the person that can take them all down.

    Haha! You've got Harvey and Jessica's way of doing business down pat.:D I think I might enjoy of the above if only to string out the fallout a little bit, and see how far Louis will go to push a few serious buttons and not back down. Goodness knows his character needs a little kick from being a perpetual joke-doormat. I know of all the people in the show it is Jessica I really would like to see rattled more than all the others, a bit like she was during the good 'ol Daniel Hardman days. She does get up my nose a bit, but at least Jeff is trying to show how tight-fisted she can be when it comes to her firm. Sadly, none of this leaves Mike in good place.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,660
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    Nihonga wrote: »
    Haha! You've got Harvey and Jessica's way of doing business down pat.:D I think I might enjoy of the above if only to string out the fallout a little bit, and see how far Louis will go to push a few serious buttons and not back down. Goodness knows his character needs a little kick from being a perpetual joke-doormat. I know of all the people in the show it is Jessica I really would like to see rattled more than all the others, a bit like she was during the good 'ol Daniel Hardman days. She does get up my nose a bit, but at least Jeff is trying to show how tight-fisted she can be when it comes to her firm. Sadly, none of this leaves Mike in good place.

    I was half expecting Louis to go to Hardman since they mentioned him twice in recent episodes.

    Honestly the key thing being the final nail in the coffin after Mike didn't know the school song and his records were on file... I get it was meant to be a literal key signifier that unlocked the truth about Mike for Louis but it seems like going back to the well a bit. Also considering Harvey did try sort out Louis and they tried to build him up as willing to do anything for the company, for him to now go full villain after choosing to take the fall and resign at the end of the last episode seems a bit abrupt. I actually thought him intimidating Donna and quaking and spitting when he said "Pearson... Spector... Llllliitt" was a tad comical. I get the actor was likely directed to be that intense but it was a bit too hammy for my tastes. If he'd added "... or the President dies.... before I launch.... the nuclear weaponsssss!" I wouldn't have been surprised.
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    NihongaNihonga Posts: 10,618
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    I was half expecting Louis to go to Hardman since they mentioned him twice in recent episodes.

    Honestly the key thing being the final nail in the coffin after Mike didn't know the school song and his records were on file... I get it was meant to be a literal key signifier that unlocked the truth about Mike for Louis but it seems like going back to the well a bit. Also considering Harvey did try sort out Louis and they tried to build him up as willing to do anything for the company, for him to now go full villain after choosing to take the fall and resign at the end of the last episode seems a bit abrupt. I actually thought him intimidating Donna and quaking and spitting when he said "Pearson... Spector... Llllliitt" was a tad comical. I get the actor was likely directed to be that intense but it was a bit too hammy for my tastes. If he'd added "... or the President dies.... before I launch.... the nuclear weaponsssss!" I wouldn't have been surprised.

    Yeah, I see what you mean. I think for me the moment Louis went from "saving the firm" to "full on villain" came a few epsiodes back when he went back to sign a deal with Forstman all because he wanted to impress Harvey. It was at that point he became the joke-doormat for me and I just rolled my eyes in disbelief. He is grown man not a high school geek trying to please the handsome football quarterback (Harvey) and get in with the 'cool' gang: Donna (star cheerleader who is bound to hook up with the handsome football quarterback at some point in time) and Mike (the quarterback's sidekick and best friend; usually the linebacker of the football pack). So everything that followed on from that moment was destined to be a tad comical and hammy. By season 4 of what is a really good TV show (when it is allowed to be the show it can be), I should not be expecting that kind of grovelling from Louis. I always prefer it when he is allowed to use his skills in financial law. It is a joy to see how he is able to unravel detail that no-one else can do in that firm. Still, I did appreciate the episode where Louis laid out the character distinctions between him and Harvey: he was emotional; Harvey was cold etc.

    Here's hoping the showrunners have moved beyond the point of infantalising Louis most of the time come the second half of the season.

    ETA: The bit with the President and the nuclear weapon did make me chuckle.:D
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,660
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    Nihonga wrote: »
    Yeah, I see what you mean. I think for me the moment Louis went from "saving the firm" to "full on villain" came a few epsiodes back when he went back to sign a deal with Forstman all because he wanted to impress Harvey. It was at that point he became the joke-doormat for me and I just rolled my eyes in disbelief. He is grown man not a high school geek trying to please the handsome football quarterback (Harvey) and get in with the 'cool' gang: Donna (star cheerleader who is bound to hook up with the handsome football quarterback at some point in time) and Mike (the quarterback's sidekick and best friend; usually the linebacker of the football pack). So everything that followed on from that moment was destined to be a tad comical and hammy. By season 4 of what is a really good TV show (when it is allowed to be the show it can be), I should not be expecting that kind of grovelling from Louis. I always prefer it when he is allowed to use his skills in financial law. It is a joy to see how he is able to unravel detail that no-one else can do in that firm. Still, I did appreciate the episode where Louis laid out the character distinctions between him and Harvey: he was emotional; Harvey was cold etc.

    Here's hoping the showrunners have moved beyond the point of infantalising Louis most of the time come the second half of the season.

    ETA: The bit with the President and the nuclear weapon did make me chuckle.:D

    Well that's why Harvey is partner and Louis is not. Harvey was still fighting Mike professionally but when it became clear he was taking his problems with Mike out on Rachel, leading to Rachel passing out and going to hospital, he put aside the professional situation temporarily and respectfully. Jessica took charge and did the professional thing, she's asked Jeff to bend but not break the rules professionally but is still soft on him personally. They both understand the division between their professional obligations and their personal relationships. Louis doesn't have that and it is why Sheila turned him down, treating her like a bonus option after being asked to leave Pearson Spector. She didn't want to be a bonus for him, she wanted proper commitment, not forced compromise. Mike is only back because Louis didn't want Forstman to screw him twice. Louis is not capable of separating his personal and professional lives which is why he got so emotional confronting Jessica and hallucinated Jessica saying things she didn't actually say in a previous episode. He has proven himself incapable of just doing his job and what he is told, when he is told, because he always wants to try prove how smart he is right before he does something really stupid.
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    NihongaNihonga Posts: 10,618
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    Well that's why Harvey is partner and Louis is not. Harvey was still fighting Mike professionally but when it became clear he was taking his problems with Mike out on Rachel, leading to Rachel passing out and going to hospital, he put aside the professional situation temporarily and respectfully. Jessica took charge and did the professional thing, she's asked Jeff to bend but not break the rules professionally but is still soft on him personally. They both understand the division between their professional obligations and their personal relationships. Louis doesn't have that and it is why Sheila turned him down, treating her like a bonus option after being asked to leave Pearson Spector. She didn't want to be a bonus for him, she wanted proper commitment, not forced compromise. Mike is only back because Louis didn't want Forstman to screw him twice. Louis is not capable of separating his personal and professional lives which is why he got so emotional confronting Jessica and hallucinated Jessica saying things she didn't actually say in a previous episode. He has proven himself incapable of just doing his job and what he is told, when he is told, because he always wants to try prove how smart he is right before he does something really stupid.

    I hadn't seen Louis's character in this way before but it does make sense. I guess that explains part of his problem in not being able to separate his personal and profession life as you say: He sees Pearson Spector and the people in it as "family" as opposed to seeing it for what it is - a legal firm who employs people to work for it. Surely he can't continue like that as a senior partner? While it is probable that he can go on like that, It doesn't seem all that plausible to me. Harvey and Jessica will just gang up together and eat him alive.

    But it also questions how Harvey and Jessica could see Pearson Spector if Louis became a partner. Jessica is so black and white to me: She sees the legal firm (her company, so to speak) but not necessarily the people who work in it. She is quite closed down when it comes to seeing people as human beings and not as androids who clock up greater number of billable hours. Does a woman need to be like that to remain head-honcho of a top company? Harvey is a bit too complex to make out that starkly. He is compassionate guy alright who is able to empathise with others, but it so deeply buried in him it takes Mike and Donna to prise it out. Maybe Harvey could find himself stuck in the middle of this potential Pearson/Spector/Litt threesome....?

    Interesting times as they say.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,660
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    Nihonga wrote: »
    I hadn't seen Louis's character in this way before but it does make sense. I guess that explains part of his problem in not being able to separate his personal and profession life as you say: He sees Pearson Spector and the people in it as "family" as opposed to seeing it for what it is - a legal firm who employs people to work for it. Surely he can't continue like that as a senior partner? While it is probable that he can go on like that, It doesn't seem all that plausible to me. Harvey and Jessica will just gang up together and eat him alive.

    But it also questions how Harvey and Jessica could see Pearson Spector if Louis became a partner. Jessica is so black and white to me: She sees the legal firm (her company, so to speak) but not necessarily the people who work in it. She is quite closed down when it comes to seeing people as human beings and not as androids who clock up greater number of billable hours. Does a woman need to be like that to remain head-honcho of a top company? Harvey is a bit too complex to make out that starkly. He is compassionate guy alright who is able to empathise with others, but it so deeply buried in him it takes Mike and Donna to prise it out. Maybe Harvey could find himself stuck in the middle of this potential Pearson/Spector/Litt threesome....?

    Interesting times as they say.

    Harvey ended his relationship with Scottie rather than compromise his company and reputation for personal interests.

    Jessica fought very hard to make Pearson Hardman what it was while Hardman took time off because of his wife, she then wasn't willing to have all her work overlooked and unappreciated because she put business first. Jessica doesn't even like Mike that much but understands what an asset he is and considers him a worthy risk. I don't think she even wanted Louis to hire him back after he cost their Logan's business portfolio because she didn't admire Harvey putting his friendship with Mike ahead of her company's profits and bottom line.

    Harvey is a nice guy put in tough spots in a tough job, Jessica is someone who has worked too hard to be willing to give it away or have her personal decisions compromise her professional life. In that regard they are the same. However she has went back to Jeff Malone while Harvey let Scottie go. Even Mike and Rachel agreed not to discuss their competing business interests at home.

    Louis on the other hand was about to get laid in the records room but still felt compelled to root around in Sheila's files to see if there was any dirt of embarrassing photos of Mike from his time he was meant to have spent at Harvard. He tried to compete with Harvey to be Mike's mentor, practically bullying him into going mudding and other bizarre activities.

    I think inevitably Forstman and Hardman will both play roles again of significance soon, perhaps forming Hardman Litt with Forstman and Logan on their books as a rival firm next season.
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    ParthenonParthenon Posts: 7,499
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    It's almost that time again. :D
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    xander63xander63 Posts: 669
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    Parthenon wrote: »
    It's almost that time again. :D

    Yep, nearly there now. These breaks are a killer to wait through.
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    Yay, more Donna. Just hope they've upped the humour content a bit more or it will go the way of Covert Affairs.
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    big brother 9big brother 9 Posts: 18,153
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    Can't wait. Feel like I've waited a year
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    Good to have the show and my Donna back, although shame she spent most of the episode trying to make up with Litt. I'm glad they've dealt with his situation in one episode. Now hopefully they can concentrate on the case of the week and have fun for the rest of the season.
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    lovetochatlovetochat Posts: 737
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    I didn't realise how much I was missing Suits!

    I like Katrina, so if she's moving to Zanes firm then at least she's still in the show somewhere. I prefer Louis when he's having mud baths or photoshopping his face onto US Presidents faces rather than ruining people. Why did they bother with Scotty again?

    I suppose they had to shake up the relationships/dynamics to keep things fresh, so Harvey wont be making fun of Louis as much if he's named partner.

    The actress playing Jessica is currently in Revenge now, I guessing her part in Revenge is small (filmed during the Suits hiatus). She's had the least character development in Suits as far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't miss her from Suits if she left....
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    ParthenonParthenon Posts: 7,499
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    Hell hath no fury like Louis scorned. Boy was he a mean SOB in this episode! I'm interested to see how he's treated from now on, as he's usually the punching bag of the firm.

    It was a good episode but rather humourless so I also hope they can get back to having some fun next week. It's been too long since we had Donna's sass and Mike & Harvey kicking ass together. Drawing this 'Louis knows' blackmail out over the remainder of the season would have been a terrible decision, so it's good that it's done and dusted.
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    Mr_XcXMr_XcX Posts: 23,899
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    I love Louis. I am fully on his side. They've treated him like dirt when he gave his all for PS.

    I want Katrina back with Louis please!! Also bring Sheila back.

    I do agree though. The episode lacked the humour so hopefully it returns next week.
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    xander63xander63 Posts: 669
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    Louis showing his true colours, mean and vindictive! No wonder Harvey treats him badly sometimes. He's a grown man, seeking Harvey's approval each day.

    I want Harvey to stomp all over him again real soon! Look how Louis treated Harold Jakowski.

    As Donna pointed out, you're gonna need someone one of these days. Can't wait to see who he crawls back to first!

    Jessica had his number at the end, that just made my night.
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    ParthenonParthenon Posts: 7,499
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    I'm glad it looks like we're getting 'regular' Louis back after that episode. It's hard to say he doesn't deserve to be named partner, because he's obviously a good lawyer (when he's not emotionally charged) and has put the years in under Jessica's regime, but the way he's been acting since getting it has grown tiresome.

    I think it's clear by now that Mike's secret is never going away. Now we've got a Harvard professor we can add to the list. I wonder if it'll just eventually blow up in everyone's faces and be a catalyst in the downfall of Pearson Spectre Litt (or whatever title it's going by when we get there).
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    It was a better episode than we've had last season and so far this season.

    Everything is set up now for the show to go back to what it was with a case of the week and some humour.

    Hopefully Litt will go back to being good at cases and not being the butt of everyone's joke.

    Needs more Donna, she was great with Litt. Nice to see some growth in Harvey, and in his relationship with Mike.

    TBH I'd hate to have the relationships that go on it that office. One wrong move and you've got knives in your back.
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    Dar WDar W Posts: 728
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    Was this on last night in the States ? It was suppose to be but can't find it at my usual sources
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    Dar W wrote: »
    Was this on last night in the States ? It was suppose to be but can't find it at my usual sources

    Yes it is out there.

    A good episode.
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    NihongaNihonga Posts: 10,618
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    Is that the end of Jeff then? We don't ever see him again? I hope so, because sad to say he is so dull and as a Jessica's romantic partner, he is the kind of guy she would normally eat for breakfast. I just don't buy it.

    Uh, oh. Donna:eek: It's time Harvey did some fighting for her.
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    MinnieMinzMinnieMinz Posts: 4,052
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    Yay, more Donna. Just hope they've upped the humour content a bit more or it will go the way of Covert Affairs.

    I love Donna but shes in trouble next week :( I get annoyed with Mike and his holier than thou attitude. I like Louis he brings the light relief.
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    MinnieMinz wrote: »
    I love Donna but shes in trouble next week :( I get annoyed with Mike and his holier than thou attitude. I like Louis he brings the light relief.

    Yes she's gone too far this week and there will be fall out next week for sure.

    Litt was great this week, loved that he almost got into trouble for harassing the Receptionist because he kept calling her phone to hear her name the company. :)
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    pburke90pburke90 Posts: 14,758
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    I get that this is how the show works and it's all for drama, but would someone really have let Donna walk into that file room and get incredibly confidential information and not ask for ID, just take her word for it because she pretended to shout at someone on the phone and that automatically means that she is "important". Just doesn't seem plausable to me.

    Still, will be interesting to see the fallout of this now next week. Jeff/Jessica - Harvey/Donna - Jessica/Donna - Everyone/Louis

    Only 2 episodes left now for this 2nd half of Season 4 isn't there, with Season 5 starting later this year?
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