In the school where I work, the pupils are still expected to call teachers and other staff Sir or Miss and it's just a normal comprehensive. Staff also call each other Sir or Miss - obviously in front of the kids but often in the staffroom too just out of habit (and it says the embarrassment of not knowing everyone's name when there are over 100 members of staff)
That's refreshing to hear!
The comprehensive school where my friend and his wife used to teach, it was Mr, Miss or Mrs, and i only found out about this when a young lad came to work at my old workplace. He stood out from all the other young lads as he was very polite with impeccable manners. However whenever he spoke to me he addressed me as 'Mr' and used my surname! Eventually i just had to take him to one side and tell him i admired his obvious respect and good manners, but as he was now no longer in school i'd prefer he just called me by my christian name!
I've never forgot that lad. Manners maketh man as the saying goes! A credit to his parents.
It turned out he'd been a pupil at the school my friend and his wife used to teach at and when i told them about him, they both said he was among the elite few of outstanding pupils.
Manners maketh man as the saying goes! A credit to his parents.
And something cool to say before you get into a bar fight.
Being privately schooled, it meant that I was referred to by my surname and I was expected to call teacher sir or ma'am. This created a habit and it's driven some of my bosses to distraction.
When I was doing web design I used to call my boss sir, and he'd do his nut. They were trying to do the whole Google thing by being a cool environment to work in, but for me it just felt weird calling him by his name or nickname. My current job isn't too bad as I don't really have a boss as such, and despite my "line manager" being older than me, she looks about 12 and I can't even bring myself utter the word "ma'am" in relation to her (although madam would be fairly apt).
I don't like this new thing of customer services wanting to call me by my first name and make small talk. I know it's intended to create a kind of rapport, a bit like that stupid checkout chatter, but I'm not their mate and I want them to answer my questions and address me properly. Don't people know that familiarity breeds contempt?
The brown thing is a cultural reference. In certain communities you call elders Aunty/Uncle. You aren't actually related to them. It's the same as saying Sir or Ma'am.
You've lost me there.
It's Aunty or Uncle if they are "brown" skinned, Sir or Ma'am otherwise?
I'm wrong aren't i?
Edit:
On long tours through the US, Canada and Alaska I found the level of courtesy and respect to customers from retail and catering staff to be exceptional.
I don't agree with you but out of interest, in a random situation like talking to another parent on the school run, if you didn't know their name would you address them Sir or Ma'am? In a casual situation, is that amount of formality necessary?
You most certainly do not have to agree.
I'm not a parent so that scenario isn't particularly applicable to me. If I were, and the fellow parent was my contemporary, then no I wouldn't address them as anything. I'd try to be courteous and at least ask them what their name is.
Take solace in the fact that I'm sagacious enough to gauge social situations where formality would be appropriate or nah.
You've lost me there.
It's Aunty or Uncle if they are "brown" skinned, Sir or Ma'am otherwise?
I'm wrong aren't i?
Edit:
On long tours through the US, Canada and Alaska I found the level of courtesy and respect to customers from retail and catering staff to be exceptional.
Yeaaaahhh... pretty wrong.
"Brown" is an expression. Again, it's a cultural thang.
And something cool to say before you get into a bar fight.
Being privately schooled, it meant that I was referred to by my surname and I was expected to call teacher sir or ma'am. This created a habit and it's driven some of my bosses to distraction.
When I was doing web design I used to call my boss sir, and he'd do his nut. They were trying to do the whole Google thing by being a cool environment to work in, but for me it just felt weird calling him by his name or nickname. My current job isn't too bad as I don't really have a boss as such, and despite my "line manager" being older than me, she looks about 12 and I can't even bring myself utter the word "ma'am" in relation to her (although madam would be fairly apt).
I don't like this new thing of customer services wanting to call me by my first name and make small talk. I know it's intended to create a kind of rapport, a bit like that stupid checkout chatter, but I'm not their mate and I want them to answer my questions and address me properly. Don't people know that familiarity breeds contempt?
Many interesting points in your post.
I remember when everything really changed for me was when i left school and went to college (they call them universities now but imo they are still colleges which have just been 'rebadged' as uni's). The lecturer opened the first day by reminding us we were no longer at school. His name was Bill and we could address him by his christian name. We could leave the room during lectures any time we wished to and go for a smoke or whatever. We were free to come and go as we wished. But as he reminded us, how we went on to learn, pass exams, gain qualifications etc was entirely down to each individuals responsibility as we were now adults and he wasn't there to tell us what to do or when.
I know what you mean about the familiarity thing but in my experience it's more about how good a person is at their job. During my working life i had some right tosspot Managers who should never have been in the position at all, hadn't a clue about staff management, and worse still, knew absolutely sod all about how the job worked or was supposed to work. There have been the exceptions who went out of their way. I always remember one manager who donned a set of overalls, came on to the shop floor announcing "right i haven't a clue how this line runs, what each machine does or what process....i'm asking you all to help me understand better".
We were staggered.....but impressed as he stuck with us over a month. Ironically other managers sneered at what they saw as him mixing with shop floor workers which just 'wasn't the done thing'! He didn't give a stuff though. He stuck two fingers up at conformity and did things his way.
He went on to become one of the best Directors the company ever had.
"Brown" is an expression. Again, it's a cultural thang.
A cultural "thang" in what sense - I think you need to be more specific. What precise group of people are "brown" to you, and therefore you call "Aunty" or "Uncle".
As far as the OP's question, i don't mind being called "Sir" as long as all other guys are in the same situation. There shouldn't be customer demographic differentiation.
I don't really think about it in shops.
Surely addressing a customer as "sir", "miss" or "madam" is about the only way the sales staff CAN address somebody who they don't know?
In other situations it always seems slightly grovelling though.
Like when you hear people who've been pulled over by US policemen addressing the cop as "sir" in an apparent bid to play on the cop's ego for example.
A cultural "thang" in what sense - I think you need to be more specific. What precise group of people are "brown" to you, and therefore you call "Aunty" or "Uncle".
As far as the OP's question, i don't mind being called "Sir" as long as all other guys are in the same situation. There shouldn't be customer demographic differentiation.
Somebody who wasn't one of the nephews who called ny OH "aunty" would get short shrift!
Second point is interesting: when I'm suited and booted for the office or a meeting I find that the attitude of some shop staff, etc is quite different to when I'm in scruffs / overalls for a day on site. AFAIK, I'm the same person regardless of what I'm wearing!
Comments
I think it worked as he came from Canada though.
I don't say Sir or madam now though I always did at school. It was either sir or miss.
The comprehensive school where my friend and his wife used to teach, it was Mr, Miss or Mrs, and i only found out about this when a young lad came to work at my old workplace. He stood out from all the other young lads as he was very polite with impeccable manners. However whenever he spoke to me he addressed me as 'Mr' and used my surname! Eventually i just had to take him to one side and tell him i admired his obvious respect and good manners, but as he was now no longer in school i'd prefer he just called me by my christian name!
I've never forgot that lad. Manners maketh man as the saying goes! A credit to his parents.
It turned out he'd been a pupil at the school my friend and his wife used to teach at and when i told them about him, they both said he was among the elite few of outstanding pupils.
Being privately schooled, it meant that I was referred to by my surname and I was expected to call teacher sir or ma'am. This created a habit and it's driven some of my bosses to distraction.
When I was doing web design I used to call my boss sir, and he'd do his nut. They were trying to do the whole Google thing by being a cool environment to work in, but for me it just felt weird calling him by his name or nickname. My current job isn't too bad as I don't really have a boss as such, and despite my "line manager" being older than me, she looks about 12 and I can't even bring myself utter the word "ma'am" in relation to her (although madam would be fairly apt).
I don't like this new thing of customer services wanting to call me by my first name and make small talk. I know it's intended to create a kind of rapport, a bit like that stupid checkout chatter, but I'm not their mate and I want them to answer my questions and address me properly. Don't people know that familiarity breeds contempt?
I agree. I would never call anyone Sir or Ma'am. I would say their name, that is why they have a name after all
You've lost me there.
It's Aunty or Uncle if they are "brown" skinned, Sir or Ma'am otherwise?
I'm wrong aren't i?
Edit:
On long tours through the US, Canada and Alaska I found the level of courtesy and respect to customers from retail and catering staff to be exceptional.
You most certainly do not have to agree.
I'm not a parent so that scenario isn't particularly applicable to me. If I were, and the fellow parent was my contemporary, then no I wouldn't address them as anything. I'd try to be courteous and at least ask them what their name is.
Take solace in the fact that I'm sagacious enough to gauge social situations where formality would be appropriate or nah.
Yeaaaahhh... pretty wrong.
"Brown" is an expression. Again, it's a cultural thang.
I remember when everything really changed for me was when i left school and went to college (they call them universities now but imo they are still colleges which have just been 'rebadged' as uni's). The lecturer opened the first day by reminding us we were no longer at school. His name was Bill and we could address him by his christian name. We could leave the room during lectures any time we wished to and go for a smoke or whatever. We were free to come and go as we wished. But as he reminded us, how we went on to learn, pass exams, gain qualifications etc was entirely down to each individuals responsibility as we were now adults and he wasn't there to tell us what to do or when.
I know what you mean about the familiarity thing but in my experience it's more about how good a person is at their job. During my working life i had some right tosspot Managers who should never have been in the position at all, hadn't a clue about staff management, and worse still, knew absolutely sod all about how the job worked or was supposed to work. There have been the exceptions who went out of their way. I always remember one manager who donned a set of overalls, came on to the shop floor announcing "right i haven't a clue how this line runs, what each machine does or what process....i'm asking you all to help me understand better".
We were staggered.....but impressed as he stuck with us over a month. Ironically other managers sneered at what they saw as him mixing with shop floor workers which just 'wasn't the done thing'! He didn't give a stuff though. He stuck two fingers up at conformity and did things his way.
He went on to become one of the best Directors the company ever had.
A cultural "thang" in what sense - I think you need to be more specific. What precise group of people are "brown" to you, and therefore you call "Aunty" or "Uncle".
As far as the OP's question, i don't mind being called "Sir" as long as all other guys are in the same situation. There shouldn't be customer demographic differentiation.
Surely addressing a customer as "sir", "miss" or "madam" is about the only way the sales staff CAN address somebody who they don't know?
In other situations it always seems slightly grovelling though.
Like when you hear people who've been pulled over by US policemen addressing the cop as "sir" in an apparent bid to play on the cop's ego for example.
Somebody who wasn't one of the nephews who called ny OH "aunty" would get short shrift!
Second point is interesting: when I'm suited and booted for the office or a meeting I find that the attitude of some shop staff, etc is quite different to when I'm in scruffs / overalls for a day on site. AFAIK, I'm the same person regardless of what I'm wearing!