Bit of a tangent this, but here's an interesting thought.
I've been watching Edge of Darkness, which is of course brilliant. It represents a massive nostalgia hit for me too, as I haven't seen it since the original run-which I adored despite being only 8 years old. I think it helped to massively potiticise me as a kid (that and my leftie parents!). The fact that it's not on iplayer, but on at the same time as Utopia, means that I'm having to watch Utopia on 4+1 (which is a shame, as last season I used to re-watch it on this straight after the showing on 4 (sad, no?). But at least it's repeated Sat night/Sun Morning from 1-3).
Anyway, on to my point; Tim McInnerny is in Edge of Darkness as well as the Utopia prequel episode. You probably couldn't get more different roles, really-he's playing a socialist political activist who (spoiler)
it transpires has been informing to the authorities
.
Anyway, he died in the episode aired on Monday night-supposedly a suicide, but I expect a murder.
So 30 years after Edge of Darkness is made, the scene where his character is murdered by a shadowy organisation
...is airing at almost exactly the same moment as his character is murdered by a shadowy organisation in Utopia.
Coincidence? Absolutely. But what are the odds of that?!? Hmm, maybe it is all a Network conspiracy after all...:o
In some ways some of the ending of series 1 seemed pointless. why disband them to have them come back together when not under threat. In a way apart from being heavily involved in it their story appeared to be over. So it's interesting to see where they go with it.
I loved Milner and her ideology of for the greater good she truly believes in what she is doing and seemingly cares for Carvel and by extension Jessica. Love her character really complex and the prequel explaining it brilliantly.
Also the Spring whats she gonna do with it.
Plus at some point Wilson will become a double agent or serve the needs of the group I don't think he has gone badass just yet.
And Arby just brilliant.
Don't forget Ian and Grant were only apart from Becky because she decided to leave them. They have been actively searching for her and they got together because she finally found.
She is with Donaldson because of the Deals drugs.
Arby was with them because of the hit on Donaldson.
It may be playing fast and loose with co-incidences but they were both apart and now back together for believeable reasons.
my only problem with it is that it's just too unbelievable at times - Wilson teaming up with the guys who tortured him and ripped his eye out and killed his dad .
I was just reading something on Cracked about how people who believe in conspiracies are also the type to join them. And they are trying to save billions of people from getting killed.
I started on Series 1, Episode 5, thinking that's all I needed to catch up on some unanswered questions. Within minutes I found another gap in my knowledge so nipped back to Episode 4. In the end I started watching everything from the beginning of Episode 2 onwards, but I still don't know how Becky contracted Deels. Was it way back in Episode 1, of was in in the first 15 minutes of Episode 4 when I forgot to set the recorder?
I started on Series 1, Episode 5, thinking that's all I needed to catch up on some unanswered questions. Within minutes I found another gap in my knowledge so nipped back to Episode 4. In the end I started watching everything from the beginning of Episode 2 onwards, but I still don't know how Becky contracted Deels. Was it way back in Episode 1, of was in in the first 15 minutes of Episode 4 when I forgot to set the recorder?
How did she get it?
If I remember correctly, they mentioned Becky's father died of Deels Syndrome in the pilot episode, so it seems logical that she inherited the disease from him. At least that's been my assumption all along. We know Deels Syndrome is a man-made neurodegenerative disease, so whatever gave her father the illness must have passed onto her.
I haven't watched Episode 1 since it aired, but I believe it does skirt around some of your questions (watch out for the indoor scene with Ian and Becky). There was no mention of how Becky contracted the disease though, which is why I'm assuming she must have inherited the disease.
I do wonder where Deels fits into the larger story though. Why was it created? So Corvadt could financially benefit from it? Or Is it related to Janus somehow? Or is it merely a plot device for Becky's character?
Agreed with all of that. The most valuable part of the prequel was, for me, showing us the brutalising of that poor child. Although I'd have cheered him on regardless, just from knowing what we knew, actually seeing it gives him much more moral weight. That is important to emphasise given the heinous acts that we saw him commit in S1. Not a justification for what he's done, but yes, some sort of redemption is perhaps what's he's seeking.
What's for sure is that now he knows his story, he doesn't want to work for these people any more. Now Lee's made it clear that you "don't/can't just quit", he's in a "well if I'm going to have to do this crap, it's against them, not for them" mind. And judging by his actions at the end of Ep2 and his words in Ep3 in the trailer, he wants to help people-starting with our gang. He doesn't need them like they need him, but sought them out and saved them; he's basically in the exact same role of protecting them and fighting The Network that Jessica had in S1! Neat.
My favourite scene's in S1 was when Jessica and Arby were working together: what a kick-ass combo that has the potential for! And in purely lovey-dovey terms, is there anything more these two messed up kids deserve other than their brother and sister? They've got a massive amount in common, after all, and neither has anyone else. I think Jessica is a long way off being soft enough to think like that, but that could change...
Perfectly summed up there, Gatehouse.
Ah yes, good point . Nice role reversal. He's essentially taken over Jessica's role this season from the looks of it. It reminds me of Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator 1 and 2. In Terminator 1, he starts off as this unstoppable, emotionless killer hunting Sarah Connor and leaving a trail of bodies in his wake. In Terminator 2, he becomes Sarah's protector and learns to be more human along the way. Arby is very much following in the same vein.
We saw that Arby now has a step daughter and a girlfriend and was leading an everyday normal life (until the dastard Lee turned up!), so it seems leaving the Network has done him the world of good as it has allowed Arby to finally get in touch with his human side and start to recover from his traumatic childhood. I hope The Network don't kill his newfound family, but I fear they will once they find out Arby has betrayed them .
Ha ha, before I'd had a chance to read your post, I was at it again! Yes looking forwards to seeing how things develop from here now we're back into the swing of the series propper and knocking our theories about, just v.annoyed that it's only 6 episodes long and we've only got 4 left now. I would love an American-sized season of this show.
I'm with you here. 6 episodes does seem a bit short (4 episodes left already ) and I feel it deserves a longer season to really explore the complex mythology of the show. A 10-episode season would've been fair enough. That said, hopefully the next 4 episodes will be packed full of great drama, pulse-pounding action and good character developent to make up for the lack of episodes.
If I remember correctly, they mentioned Becky's father died of Deels Syndrome in the pilot episode, so it seems logical that she inherited the disease from him. At least that's been my assumption all along. We know Deels Syndrome is a man-made neurodegenerative disease, so whatever gave her father the illness must have passed onto her.
I haven't watched Episode 1 since it aired, but I believe it does skirt around some of your questions (watch out for the indoor scene with Ian and Becky). There was no mention of how Becky contracted the disease though, which is why I'm assuming she must have inherited the disease.
I do wonder where Deels fits into the larger story though. Why was it created? So Corvadt could financially benefit from it? Or Is it related to Janus somehow? Or is it merely a plot device for Becky's character?
Deels was created by The Network as a test in preparation for Janus to ensure that they could create a disease that was hereditary. In the episode where they have captured Letts he explains this and says that in that respect Deels was a success. So we know that Becky inherited Deels from her father.
Finally caught up with the first 2 episodes. Excellent, and Arby is fearsome. Jessica is too!
While 6 episodes is short, there's no requirement for padding and aimless episodes, we should be getting crisp action all the time.
Love the bright carry bags. When the girl was fishing something out of the bright yellow one I bet everyone was expecting her to reveal something hideous...
Thought it was great & gripping, but the scene with Piotr/Pietre and the rabbit shocked the hell out of me and I've watched the show from the start. Grim, grim, grim.
Rose Leslie was excellent as Milner- got the mannerisms and the voice just right. Tom Burke was brilliant as well.
Amazing casting for that first episode. The characters when they're young look very convincing physically as the people they will later become.
The casting of the child as the young Arby, and the young Jessica actually had the look or feel of their adult counterparts. And the actress playing the young Milner really did look like a younger version of the older Milner and had the performance down to a tee.
Very convincing stuff which lots of shows could learn from.
The Three Mile Island scenes threatened to jolt me out of my suspension of disbelief and the influence of Lost was visible in this ep even more than the previous series but it was great comic-book telly though.
C4 should do more of this kind of stuff although with disastrous ratings last night of just 556k it seems unlikely!!
I can hardly believe those ratings. When you have Big Brother on the other side at the same time with higher ratings it makes you wonder if we're heading towards an Idiocracy.
Deels was created by The Network as a test in preparation for Janus to ensure that they could create a disease that was hereditary. In the episode where they have captured Letts he explains this and says that in that respect Deels was a success. So we know that Becky inherited Deels from her father.
I see. Thanks very much, rollergirl. That makes sense. I really need to watch Series 1 again as I've forgotten a few things. I suspected Deels was created for some experimental purpose.
It will probably move to the BBC if there's another series. I don't know why they're bothered about the ratings, because anyone with any sense will be recording it and skipping the ads.
Surely you'd think that there are people in television who recognise the quality they've got her.
I do know that Channel 4 occasionally support quality despite the ratings. Peep Show is a series which springs to mind.
I'd feel awful for Dennis Kelly if the third series isn't commissioned, especially after what happened to him and Sharon Horgan after 'Pulling'.
He's got something brilliant here and people just aren't watching.
Are they stupid or something. Don't they realise that this is supposed to be a fictional story and not supposed to be real?
Mind you the term 'conspiracy theory' holds a lot of weight to it and provokes an irrational emotional response within some people.
Anyone spot the humour in the sound design behind that scene?
The background music had the sound of what sounded like a dog barking.....as though Donaldson was taking a dog for a walk.:D
Tha antics of the Daily Mail can only improve viewing figures in my opinion. I wouldn't worry about viewing figures: this will surely come to be recognised as a landmark in television drama and Channel 4 will eventually clean up with the boxed sets.
Now I'm going to have to go back to Series 1, Episode 1 to remind me who Becky's father was.
Then I'm going to have to watch Series 2, Episode 1 again, just to recap on who and why Mr Rabbit came to have that carving on his chest. I didn't see a pattern in it at the time so didn't see the significance - and I've already forgotten whether it was done to him or self-inflicted. Then there was another sequence in the last episode where I thought Milner said that she was actually Mr Rabbit.
At this rate I can see myself being trapped within a never ending loop of replays
I have to admit that I'm not entirely convinced with the whole Mr Rabbit storyline. What is the purpose of it? What does it lend to the story, other than the obvious "who is mr rabbit?" The Network created the myth but I don't really understand why it was required. And I don't understand why the assistant had to go so far as to get his stomach carved to pretend to be Mr Rabbit. Ian, Becky and the gang wouldn't have even known about Mr Rabbit if Milner hadn't told them herself.
One point that made little sense to me was Milner's horrified objection to specifically selecting those to be immune to Janus. Given she has happily killed thousands of innocent people to ensure the projects success why would she quibble on this point?
Also the term "dissident republicans" did not come into use until their emergence after the 1994 IRA ceasefire.
I think showing S2 in July when S1 was last January has definitely effected the viewing figures, that said there was some surprise it got a second series in the first place.
The trouble is that when you innocently started watching the first series, you weren't prepared for the mind **** that was to follow. I've had to go back to the first episode, which now seems on a totally different plane to what I thought I was watching the first time round.
You simply have to watch the first series again, after which It just grows and grows into something way beyond the experience of watching it the first time round.
I have to admit that I'm not entirely convinced with the whole Mr Rabbit storyline. What is the purpose of it? What does it lend to the story, other than the obvious "who is mr rabbit?" The Network created the myth but I don't really understand why it was required. And I don't understand why the assistant had to go so far as to get his stomach carved to pretend to be Mr Rabbit. Ian, Becky and the gang wouldn't have even known about Mr Rabbit if Milner hadn't told them herself.
Yeah. Looking back, it does feel like the Mr Rabbit storyline was nothing more than a ruse used by the writers to tease the true identity of The Network leader. I did like the mystery, but you could argue that it wasn't required.
The only reason I can think of why Milner and co invented the Mr Rabbit myth was to scare The Network's enemies (that includes Ian, Becky and Wilson). Almost like a bogeyman to act as a deterrent. Milner's eerie description of Mr Rabbit's origins in Series 1 came across quite intimidating and chilling to be fair . One thing I noticed was how Milner exaggerated the story to make Mr Rabbit sound like some sort of murderous force of nature.
Additionally, maybe she thought Jessica would be tempted to go after Mr Rabbit, thus allowing Milner to capture her? After all, that was Milner's plan all along.
But you're right, they did go an awful length in inventing and maintaining this cover story for years. Milner could've made up any story she wanted. I think it would've better served the storyline if someone unconnected to The Network (and therefore Milner) told Ian and the gang about the Mr Rabbit myth. Then it would've made sense for Milner to keep up pretences and maintain the cover story.
Comments
I've been watching Edge of Darkness, which is of course brilliant. It represents a massive nostalgia hit for me too, as I haven't seen it since the original run-which I adored despite being only 8 years old. I think it helped to massively potiticise me as a kid (that and my leftie parents!). The fact that it's not on iplayer, but on at the same time as Utopia, means that I'm having to watch Utopia on 4+1 (which is a shame, as last season I used to re-watch it on this straight after the showing on 4 (sad, no?). But at least it's repeated Sat night/Sun Morning from 1-3).
Anyway, on to my point; Tim McInnerny is in Edge of Darkness as well as the Utopia prequel episode. You probably couldn't get more different roles, really-he's playing a socialist political activist who (spoiler)
So 30 years after Edge of Darkness is made, the scene where his character is murdered by a shadowy organisation
Coincidence? Absolutely. But what are the odds of that?!? Hmm, maybe it is all a Network conspiracy after all...:o
That's the kind of stuff I love about Utopia.
I've never been able to shake off Percy whenever I see Tim. "What I behold in my hand, a nugget of purest green!". Best quote ever.
Don't forget Ian and Grant were only apart from Becky because she decided to leave them. They have been actively searching for her and they got together because she finally found.
She is with Donaldson because of the Deals drugs.
Arby was with them because of the hit on Donaldson.
It may be playing fast and loose with co-incidences but they were both apart and now back together for believeable reasons.
Hope you're well too
Now, I really think that Anton...
How did she get it?
If I remember correctly, they mentioned Becky's father died of Deels Syndrome in the pilot episode, so it seems logical that she inherited the disease from him. At least that's been my assumption all along. We know Deels Syndrome is a man-made neurodegenerative disease, so whatever gave her father the illness must have passed onto her.
I haven't watched Episode 1 since it aired, but I believe it does skirt around some of your questions (watch out for the indoor scene with Ian and Becky). There was no mention of how Becky contracted the disease though, which is why I'm assuming she must have inherited the disease.
I do wonder where Deels fits into the larger story though. Why was it created? So Corvadt could financially benefit from it? Or Is it related to Janus somehow? Or is it merely a plot device for Becky's character?
Perfectly summed up there, Gatehouse.
Ah yes, good point
We saw that Arby now has a step daughter and a girlfriend and was leading an everyday normal life (until the dastard Lee turned up!), so it seems leaving the Network has done him the world of good as it has allowed Arby to finally get in touch with his human side and start to recover from his traumatic childhood. I hope The Network don't kill his newfound family, but I fear they will once they find out Arby has betrayed them
Agreed! They make a great combo :cool:.
I'm with you here. 6 episodes does seem a bit short (4 episodes left already
Deels was created by The Network as a test in preparation for Janus to ensure that they could create a disease that was hereditary. In the episode where they have captured Letts he explains this and says that in that respect Deels was a success. So we know that Becky inherited Deels from her father.
While 6 episodes is short, there's no requirement for padding and aimless episodes, we should be getting crisp action all the time.
Love the bright carry bags. When the girl was fishing something out of the bright yellow one I bet everyone was expecting her to reveal something hideous...
Amazing casting for that first episode. The characters when they're young look very convincing physically as the people they will later become.
The casting of the child as the young Arby, and the young Jessica actually had the look or feel of their adult counterparts. And the actress playing the young Milner really did look like a younger version of the older Milner and had the performance down to a tee.
Very convincing stuff which lots of shows could learn from.
I can hardly believe those ratings. When you have Big Brother on the other side at the same time with higher ratings it makes you wonder if we're heading towards an Idiocracy.
I see. Thanks very much, rollergirl. That makes sense. I really need to watch Series 1 again as I've forgotten a few things. I suspected Deels was created for some experimental purpose.
Surely you'd think that there are people in television who recognise the quality they've got her.
I do know that Channel 4 occasionally support quality despite the ratings. Peep Show is a series which springs to mind.
I'd feel awful for Dennis Kelly if the third series isn't commissioned, especially after what happened to him and Sharon Horgan after 'Pulling'.
He's got something brilliant here and people just aren't watching.
Are they stupid or something. Don't they realise that this is supposed to be a fictional story and not supposed to be real?
Mind you the term 'conspiracy theory' holds a lot of weight to it and provokes an irrational emotional response within some people.
Anyone spot the humour in the sound design behind that scene?
The background music had the sound of what sounded like a dog barking.....as though Donaldson was taking a dog for a walk.:D
Now I'm going to have to go back to Series 1, Episode 1 to remind me who Becky's father was.
Then I'm going to have to watch Series 2, Episode 1 again, just to recap on who and why Mr Rabbit came to have that carving on his chest. I didn't see a pattern in it at the time so didn't see the significance - and I've already forgotten whether it was done to him or self-inflicted. Then there was another sequence in the last episode where I thought Milner said that she was actually Mr Rabbit.
At this rate I can see myself being trapped within a never ending loop of replays
I agree.
Also the term "dissident republicans" did not come into use until their emergence after the 1994 IRA ceasefire.
I think showing S2 in July when S1 was last January has definitely effected the viewing figures, that said there was some surprise it got a second series in the first place.
You simply have to watch the first series again, after which It just grows and grows into something way beyond the experience of watching it the first time round.
It is a work of pure genius.
Yeah. Looking back, it does feel like the Mr Rabbit storyline was nothing more than a ruse used by the writers to tease the true identity of The Network leader. I did like the mystery, but you could argue that it wasn't required.
The only reason I can think of why Milner and co invented the Mr Rabbit myth was to scare The Network's enemies (that includes Ian, Becky and Wilson). Almost like a bogeyman to act as a deterrent. Milner's eerie description of Mr Rabbit's origins in Series 1 came across quite intimidating and chilling to be fair
Additionally, maybe she thought Jessica would be tempted to go after Mr Rabbit, thus allowing Milner to capture her? After all, that was Milner's plan all along.
But you're right, they did go an awful length in inventing and maintaining this cover story for years. Milner could've made up any story she wanted. I think it would've better served the storyline if someone unconnected to The Network (and therefore Milner) told Ian and the gang about the Mr Rabbit myth. Then it would've made sense for Milner to keep up pretences and maintain the cover story.