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Jacks Hand? (question from USA)
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Chatting with the rest of America now that they've finally seen this entire Doctor Who series and the current topic of discussion is who's vortex manipulator does River?
We're told he was a handsom time agent...we've seen 2 already and there's bound to be more out there somewhere so it surly don't have to be Jack...but most seem to think it is.
I think if it had been Jack there would have been another refrence to him, in some manner for us fans at least - as River don't know him as far as we know. I don't think his arm would grow back on its own, as he still ages even though he can't die. unless he's killed in the process (as he did blow up and come back) which I would guess he would have been, can't see him giving up his hand without a fight. lol. otherwise - he could get a new hand surgically no doubt.
depending on when in his timeline it was taken from him (don't remember if his VM worked for time hopping at the end of Torchwood...the bar he was in when DT came to say bye was our local time as Alonso from Titanic was there) they will have to explain what happened to his VM or he'll have to get another one, can't really go to the time agency and get a new one.
so! was wondering everyone's POV on all this to bring over to the poor American's who refuse to come to this board due to spoiler risks. lol
Was it Jack's?
We're told he was a handsom time agent...we've seen 2 already and there's bound to be more out there somewhere so it surly don't have to be Jack...but most seem to think it is.
I think if it had been Jack there would have been another refrence to him, in some manner for us fans at least - as River don't know him as far as we know. I don't think his arm would grow back on its own, as he still ages even though he can't die. unless he's killed in the process (as he did blow up and come back) which I would guess he would have been, can't see him giving up his hand without a fight. lol. otherwise - he could get a new hand surgically no doubt.
depending on when in his timeline it was taken from him (don't remember if his VM worked for time hopping at the end of Torchwood...the bar he was in when DT came to say bye was our local time as Alonso from Titanic was there) they will have to explain what happened to his VM or he'll have to get another one, can't really go to the time agency and get a new one.
so! was wondering everyone's POV on all this to bring over to the poor American's who refuse to come to this board due to spoiler risks. lol
Was it Jack's?
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Why can't he regrow a hand? He came back from virtually nothing, just a few bits in Torchwood: Children of Earth. Perhaps he's just have to kill himself, or be killed (occupational hazard if you're Jack Harkness) and then come alive again with hand intact.
It seemed to work fine in the Torchwood mini series?
No it didn't.. Hence him having to hitch a ride from earth rather than just zap where he wanted to.
Did he not use it to contact a cold fusion cruiser on the edge of the solar system?
thats why I said he would probably have to have died...we've not seen him regrow anything while alive but have seen him come back from bits when dead. also - doubt he'd let someone cut off his hand without a fight.
thats what I was thinking....been to long since I watched CofE so wasnt sure.
We don't really know where the Who finale and Children of Earth fit together in the timeline. But yes, I think we're going to get mentions or hints about Jack in the lead up to Torchwood season 4 if he doesn't make an actual appearance in Who.
He may have been able to use it as a communicator, but the actual time travel technology was disabled awhile back.
So I think it was some sort of transport device rather than a VM. However, this doesn't mean that he couldn't get one from somewhere or that this wasn't set at another time. Remember Jack lost two years as a time agent and we're all waiting for Moff to decide what he was doing then.
It could also have belonged to any time agent. We don't know how many there were. When we meet Captin John there are only 7 but who knows. It could also have belonged to John Hart but his arm wouldn't grow back.
I suspect, as River was from the 51st century and that was mentioned, even though the date they used was, rather annoyingly for a historian, in the 52nd century, that she would know Jack. I'm longing for that meeting.
So either Jack lost a hand before he was immortal and technology in the 51st century could rebuild him - think Luke Skywalker or he lost it after he'd left Eath and some one used it to travel through time to bring to the dealer and it was fixed - he would be wearing it and one assumes that not only the Doctor could fix them.
Sorry I've rambled. I'll shut up now.
It was definitely Jack's VM that had been recovered from the wreckage of the Hub. Jack was able to use it to travel in space, but the Doctor had disabled the time capability.
Because the Moff is teasing us....
Now I'm going to have to check. I agree it could be as you say but without the time travel capability.
The Time Agency was referenced as far back as The Talons of Weng Chiang, when Greel believed the Doctor and Leela were time agents. I suspect there were quite a few of them.
Thats interesting - I didn't know that. Are there any other references? Far too many years since I've seen the Talons of Weng Chiang - that's the rats isn't it?
Please. We try not to mention the rat...:o
It was the first and only mention of the Time Agency in the classic series (and yes, they were based in the 51st Century there, too) but they later cropped up in at least one of the Virgin novels. The Shadow of Weng Chiang, IIRC.
If you look at the final scene (on the hillside) in Day 5, you'll clearly see that it's the VM when Jack presses a button to contact the Cold Fusion Cruiser. There's a really clear close-up of the VM
But I believe Jack has been the only Time Agent to appear in Who. So it's certainly likely and not at all unreasonable that Moff was referencing him in that scene. Especially as it begins to set the scene for the new series of Torchwood, just a gentle prod of the memory... Jack's coming back.
He isn't the only Time Agent we've ever seen, though. It could as easily have been John Hart from Torchwood.
But John Hart has never been in Who. So the viewers who watch Who but not Torchwood wouldn't know who John Hart is. They all, however, know who Captain Jack Harkness is
And here's the evidence now I've checked
http://disparue.org/gallery/3/tw/3/day5/index.php?page=19
3rd row - 2 pictures
They don't link independently so that's why I put the page.
I know they don't link, I had to edit my post
But they know he was a member of a Time Agency which means more than 1 Agent.
Note the word Was, the Jack we've seen in DW is no longer a Time Agent so unless Jack joins the Time Agency a 2nd time when he lives through to the 51st/52nd Century again which given how he feels about them is unlikely then he can't have been the Time Agent who had his hand cut off after (probably) being killed.
On a seperate matter I wonder if The Silence could be the remaining 6 Time Agents (possibly 5, John Hart said there was only 7 of them left after the Agency was disbanded but he may have been including Jack).
I suggested a while back that a couple of rogue Time Agents would make good recurring Villians and given how "The Silence" has some ability to mess about with Time and control the TARDIS It's possible they may well have been Time Agents.
Good excuse to bring Jack back into DW as he has to help the Doctor fight his former colleagues.