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Graduate in June 2014... need some careers advice
ChickenWings
Posts: 2,057 Forum Member
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This is probably going to be a long post... apologies in advance.
I'm in my third year of university studying Sociology with Criminology (the course is 75% sociology with 25% criminology) and I'm due to graduate in June.
Since I was about 17, I had planned on becoming a teacher; it was always something I was interested in and then when I went to college I put 2+2 together and decided that I'd quite like to teach in FE/post-16. For the past few years this has been the plan - finish my undergrad degree and then do a PGCE in Secondary Social Science or Post Compulsory Education & Training. Thus I've been working on making it happen - I did two terms worth of work experience in my second year at two different places, and I am working throughout September at two different schools/colleges.
However, as much as I want to do it, I am not 100% sure I will go ahead with it. Firstly, getting a job in FE is hard. On one website I searched for Sociology teaching jobs in a 300 mile radius and 1 job came up - in 300 miles! I found another website which was better and found about 6-7 Sociology teaching jobs in a 60 mile radius which is better, but still not great. I absolutely wouldn't mind moving 40-50 miles away for work - in fact I'd like to get away from my hometown.
But there is every chance I'll end up not being able to get a teaching job after doing the PGCE. And this uncertainty would be fine if I was a bit younger, but I will be 23 when I finish undergrad, and if I do the PGCE, 24 when I finish that. I can't really risk not working for another year or two after that, as I refuse to be the person still at home living with their parents at 26/27, etc.
So it's all up in the air. I might do that or I might not - I need more advice and support first - like, statistics and stuff. I am going to speak with the careers service at uni when term starts up in October, but it's still the summer holidays so I can't do that at the minute.
ANYWAY, long story short... I can't afford to do any postgrad training at uni after I graduate from undergrad (the PGCE is funded), but I still need some support on other alternative jobs/careers and what is necessary to get in to them.
My sister mentioned HR, and I researched it, but apparently the CIPD courses are about £1k........... so I probably won't be able to do that.
Be honest..... I'm gonna be lucky to get a job stacking shelves in ASDA, aren't I? Should I give in on any hopes of a career and just accept that I'll probably end up cleaning toilets or working in KFC? I'm being deadly serious.... I saw friends graduate last summer who had hopes and dreams of careers and high flying jobs and the luckiest of the bunch ended up getting jobs in offices sat answering the phone and photocopying all day. The unluckiest are on the dole or working in agency jobs.
Before anyone says "ahhhh.... well that's just how it goes, uni is no guarantee of a job these days" - quite. I never expected it to open a million doors for me, and think people who did/do are foolish and naive. I enrolled at uni for one reason - I wanted to become a teacher which does require a degree. So I don't regret going to uni at all - I'd rather go to uni and not be a teacher, than not go to uni and wish I had because I want to be a teacher at age 35. My dilemma now is that I've come to uni because I want to be a teacher, and now I'm not sure whether it's viable or not, so I need to consider other alternative career options. I did not come to uni with the idea I'd definitely get a job at the end of it, I came with the intention that you need a degree to get on the social science/post compulsory education and training PGCE, which is still true. I just feel that there is a very high chance I could get on and do that and still end up jobless (but with £15k of extra debt and another wasted year).
TL;DR: help!
I'm in my third year of university studying Sociology with Criminology (the course is 75% sociology with 25% criminology) and I'm due to graduate in June.
Since I was about 17, I had planned on becoming a teacher; it was always something I was interested in and then when I went to college I put 2+2 together and decided that I'd quite like to teach in FE/post-16. For the past few years this has been the plan - finish my undergrad degree and then do a PGCE in Secondary Social Science or Post Compulsory Education & Training. Thus I've been working on making it happen - I did two terms worth of work experience in my second year at two different places, and I am working throughout September at two different schools/colleges.
However, as much as I want to do it, I am not 100% sure I will go ahead with it. Firstly, getting a job in FE is hard. On one website I searched for Sociology teaching jobs in a 300 mile radius and 1 job came up - in 300 miles! I found another website which was better and found about 6-7 Sociology teaching jobs in a 60 mile radius which is better, but still not great. I absolutely wouldn't mind moving 40-50 miles away for work - in fact I'd like to get away from my hometown.
But there is every chance I'll end up not being able to get a teaching job after doing the PGCE. And this uncertainty would be fine if I was a bit younger, but I will be 23 when I finish undergrad, and if I do the PGCE, 24 when I finish that. I can't really risk not working for another year or two after that, as I refuse to be the person still at home living with their parents at 26/27, etc.
So it's all up in the air. I might do that or I might not - I need more advice and support first - like, statistics and stuff. I am going to speak with the careers service at uni when term starts up in October, but it's still the summer holidays so I can't do that at the minute.
ANYWAY, long story short... I can't afford to do any postgrad training at uni after I graduate from undergrad (the PGCE is funded), but I still need some support on other alternative jobs/careers and what is necessary to get in to them.
My sister mentioned HR, and I researched it, but apparently the CIPD courses are about £1k........... so I probably won't be able to do that.
Be honest..... I'm gonna be lucky to get a job stacking shelves in ASDA, aren't I? Should I give in on any hopes of a career and just accept that I'll probably end up cleaning toilets or working in KFC? I'm being deadly serious.... I saw friends graduate last summer who had hopes and dreams of careers and high flying jobs and the luckiest of the bunch ended up getting jobs in offices sat answering the phone and photocopying all day. The unluckiest are on the dole or working in agency jobs.
Before anyone says "ahhhh.... well that's just how it goes, uni is no guarantee of a job these days" - quite. I never expected it to open a million doors for me, and think people who did/do are foolish and naive. I enrolled at uni for one reason - I wanted to become a teacher which does require a degree. So I don't regret going to uni at all - I'd rather go to uni and not be a teacher, than not go to uni and wish I had because I want to be a teacher at age 35. My dilemma now is that I've come to uni because I want to be a teacher, and now I'm not sure whether it's viable or not, so I need to consider other alternative career options. I did not come to uni with the idea I'd definitely get a job at the end of it, I came with the intention that you need a degree to get on the social science/post compulsory education and training PGCE, which is still true. I just feel that there is a very high chance I could get on and do that and still end up jobless (but with £15k of extra debt and another wasted year).
TL;DR: help!
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Comments
Yeah but I don't want to/can't teach any of those! When you want to be a teacher you don't just decide on being a teacher and then afterwards pick a subject out of a list with your eyes shut or pick whichever is most in demand - you have to be good at the subject/like it enough to study it at A-Level, then degree level and then to teach it. Neither English, Maths or Science is like that for me I'm afraid and even if they were, I finished my A-Levels 4 years ago and am in my third year of my degree, so that ship has long since sailed... and I'm glad I'm not on it
And English isn't in demand teaching wise either.
(I teach computer science myself and I know as a CS teacher rather than an ICT one I'm like gold dust!)
Obviously you could teach in any of those areas - and there are bursaries and scholarships available to help with funding - but you'd have to do an extra year in the relevant subject.
When did you look for social sciences positions? Only asking because the prime time for recruitment is usually around Easter and the number of places being advertised can dwindle at other times of the year.
I'd suggest getting information from your department about what graduates did after they finished their degree and see if any of those options look appealing to you. I'd also see if your university careers service or department offers post-degree placements or internships with employers that would give you valuable work experience. I also wouldn't necessarily give up on your initial teaching option but investigate it further, get the application forms and information for the postgraduate teacher training qualification, compare them with the other career options available and by all means apply after you've considered what to do.
As this is your final year, I would suggest trying to get the best degree classification possible to make future career options as wide and easy as possible. To help you in that, I recommend this book on studying, exams and revision right here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Use-Your-Head-Unleash-Power/dp/1406644277/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1377626854&sr=8-2&keywords=use+your+head+buzan
Good luck!
If your heart is still set on being a Sociology teacher, what about teaching Politics as well?
Perhaps - I know a few people training to be English and History teachers and both found it really difficult to get on the relevant courses - there are so many people graduating from undergrad English and undergrad History that don't know what to do with themselves and their degree so I think they must get a lot of applicants who apply as "don't know what else to do", last thing option. Maybe a large proportion of them don't actually end up going on to teaching after the course? Or drop out after starting the course?
Yep I'm seeing them at the first opportunity which is when I go back in October. Just wondered if anyone on here had any advice in the meantime.
I'm terrible at maths and (proper) sciences and to be honest I really don't like any of those subjects to the point where I'd never bother retraining/trying to teach them. It'd be nice to a maths or science genius but truth be told I was very lucky to scrape my Cs in those subjects so I wouldn't even dare trying to do anything with them
You raise a good point in your last paragraph though. It was recently, like June. So yeah, you're right - a lot of the jobs will already have been posted and then gone by that point, I know a lot of places start sorting contracts out March-April time for the next academic year... it's possible that there were jobs, and they were just filled.
Also, on the TES site I found 1 sociology teaching jobs within 300 miles. On another site I found about 6-7 sociology teaching jobs within a 60 mile radius... both of these searches were in June, or something. So maybe I just need to use different job sites when I end up looking for a job? If TES said 1 job within 300 miles but another site found 6-7 in 60 miles then obviously there's a discrepancy somewhere. Maybe FE colleges and stuff prefer to advertise elsewhere?
Like I said I absolutely do not mind moving 40/50/60 miles away for work! So perhaps a job search using lots of different websites at the right time of year (say, January-April) would yield much better results? I'd only be looking for the one job
Thanks, this is what my department lists with regards to graduate employment from my degree:
Actually scratch that -- they've edited the website and taken that useful bit off... it did used to say but now they've removed it :mad: From memory it said stuff like teaching, social work, HR, PR and marketing and market research and things.
My uni do offer a good careers service with internships and things advertised but all my experience is in education so I think it's going to be hard for me to apply for a lot of them as I've basically built my entire life profile around teaching to the point where it's all I have. The same reason why I find it hard to get a summer job - the schools are closed and my in school/college experience doesn't seem to impress ASDA - hah.
I'm definitely applying for teacher training at this stage anyway
Degree wise... my average is a 2:1 and it's what I'm aiming for fingers crossed. I did want a 1st originally but it's unworkable now with my second year average. Plus everyone keeps telling me that a 2:1 and my amount of work experience is better than a first and less WE. Hopefully they aren't just being polite...!
I've only ever done politics once, it was a Sociology module at A2. I'm not sure, I'd have to investigate how difficult it would be to do a short, relatively inexpensive politics course. If it's doable it's an option, if it requires another degree then it isn't!
Couldnt get a job in a collage, retrained in secondary in 2008, but had to move for work (I come from Wales, currently reside in Beds which was the first place I could find a FT job)
You might have to move for teaching, unless you get in good with a local college now. Try contacting them, IIRC you dont need QTS to work in a college and getting your feet under the table might not hurt,,,,
I've done work experience at two colleges and out of 4 sociology teachers I met 3 were completely unqualified - only one had done any teacher training. But at the same time they all got their jobs 6/7/8+ years ago and although they said they had no problem getting a job as an unqualified teacher (two of them even said they'd never even planned on teaching at all and the job literally just fell in to their lap like any other job!) I'm not sure I'd have the same luck. Personally I am the unluckiest person in the world so I wouldn't wanna ride on it if you know what I mean... although you don't HAVE to be qualified it does better your chances -- even of it's just because you do two placements so you get known through networking etc. rather than formally.
I'm not really interested in politics, no. It's not something I'd wanna get a job in buf maybe something I could do a shortish course in and teach. Also when I say I'm willing to move for work I meant within the UK. I'd never live overseas -- I've never left the country!
Everyone is different, but I'd always advise any uni student that if they get the opportunity to do a structure training/apprenticeship/graduate scheme after studies to take it. Any direct work experience you can get early on is really useful later on in your career, even if you decide to do something completely different.
My biggest advice is don't get too stressed about your 'career' in your early/mid 20s. Unless you have a clear career path then most graduates spend those years in non-descript office admin roles. It's not until you've got some work experience, soft skills and confidence that you can start looking into doing what you really want. Talk of always being a cleaner or KFC worker is stupid - any graduate can eventually get entry level office work, and from there is not too hard to specialize in whatever area you find yourself in and move up. It might not be in the career you want but it will be far better pay than a cleaner.
To give an example, this was how my 'career' worked out;
2003 - Graduated with a 2:1 in Economics in June and spent July, August and September working on a building site! Joined an office admin agency in October and spend the next 6 months working as a temp
2004 - Moved back home and spent 3 months looking for a graduate scheme or appropriate entry level job. Eventually found a generalist office admin role for a large government agency when I ended up as a finance system support adviser.
2006 - Finished my 2 year placement and using the experience I was able to get a similar job with the local council at a higher wage. Became proficient with their finance system.
2009 - Left the council to join a large company as a trainee Finance Systems Analyst. Didn't have any technical qualifications or training at this point, just work experience.
2012 - Promoted to Senior Systems Analyst.
2013 - Hope to become qualified as a Business Analyst by the end of the year and will probably look for work as one in the near future.
I didn't plan any of it and i'm not exactly the most go-getting person in the world. In the end it was just basic intelligence and reliability that helped me get to my job.
I always find stories like yours really inspiring and wish my life could be like that
Unfortunately I just don't think that's the sort of person I am. I took two unplanned gap years between December 2009 and October 2011 and they were the worst years of my life, eventually leading to me being diagnosed with depression and GAD. I dropped out of uni in December 2009 (my first attempt at a degree but I didn't like the subject when I got there, and didn't decide this until I wasn't able to change courses) and then I just told myself "I'll find a job" but by the end of January I was sleeping all day, not leaving the house, etc. Suffice to say I never ended getting a job.
I just can't risk saying "whatever will be will be" because I do not trust myself or have any faith in myself whatsoever. When push comes to shove, I am a person that needs routine, planning and something to do - and I think it's better that I know this and acknowledge it. All it takes is a month or two of me not doing anything to become a hermit with no life and the idea of going to a job interview then fills me with dread. I just don't want to go down that road again.... I want to have something - what, I don't know, but something organised for when I graduate - a job, a graduate scheme/internship, postgrad training... just something concrete and formal. I'm unsure what it will be yet, but I know if I don't make any plans then my life will be over because I can't pick myself out of that kind of depression again. And all it takes is one or two months to take me back there. I'm not risking it.
Also, because of my unplanned gap years, the vast majority of my friends (that I was at college with, etc.) graduated last year, with some others having just graduated this year. The vast majority of them when I speak to them say their biggest regret about uni is not "getting something sorted" in third year for when they graduate. Like 90% of my friends did not look at internships/graduate schemes/graduate jobs/postgrad training... they all just worried about third year of uni and the academic side of it, neglecting to do anything else, and then when it got to May and June, they all started looking for jobs. Together. Suffice to say, you can imagine what it's like looking for jobs in May and June just as everyone is graduating! Some of them spent months and months just trying to get a job in a call centre or a pub. Like I said in my OP the lucky ones got an office job sat answering the phone and photocopying all day.... the really unlucky ones are still unemployed.
I don't want to risk it. I want to learn from their mistakes as well as my past history. I'm not saying my plans need to be concrete, or I can only have one plan, or anything like that. That'd be daft. Instead I need to think of alternative plans to teaching in case I decide not to do it. But I definitely need to "plan" something and then have backup plans. Otherwise I'm gonna still be living at home at 45.... I can see it. I *am* that person if I let myself be. And as I said before it only takes a month or two for me to get there. Once I lose routine and having something to do, that's it. I'm a dosser. And I don't know if I can climb out of dossville again, as it was really, really hard.
The advice I'll give is to try to get onto a big company graduate scheme where you can have a go at different types of work over a couple of years. Basically any job with some interest is better than sitting around wondering why no-one will employ you and you can start getting your finances sorted.
If you want to get into FE, then I suggest you start researching all places now (you've got a couple of weeks before you get back) and contact them. Don't just restrict yourself to the surrounding 60 miles, look across the whole UK for opportunities. It might give you the imputus to move so you won't be a spinster living at home when you're 45.
Finally, there is hope as long as you are prepared to do anything to better yourself. Take that from someone with a pass degree in geology from a poly who wanted to do computing and never to do geology again, but is now a senior technical professional in the oil industry.
If you look back you'll see that 5 years after uni I was still working in a relatively junior position at the council earning little money. I can't begin to count how many times back then I would be sitting at my desk and wondering where it all went wrong. Why after years of education and good grades I hadn't ended up in a 'proper' career with prospects. I thought of my dad who at 26 had a family and his first house and wondered why I was barely earning enough to rent a room in a shared place. As someone who allows these things to pry on his mind it just ate away at me every day.
Eventually I ended up in counseling about how bad I felt about my life (for other things as well as my career to be fair) and although I wasn't diagnosed with depression, i'm pretty sure I had it. However i've always been a 'coper' and I simply carried on. I got up every day, went to work, went home and then saw my friends. As much as I worried about it I just got on with my life as there was no other option.
So it might sound hypocritical of me to give the advice I did, however all I can say is that it did turn out ok in the end. You talk about planning for your graduation but the honest truth is that getting something is more luck than hard work. I spent months and months before leaving uni applying for graduate courses and going to careers counseling but I didn't get anywhere - very few people do. Even those that did have plans eventually decided they wanted to do something else. I know a girl that got accepted to no fewer than 4 graduate schemes but decided they weren't for her and then after 5 years of being a learning support officer she trained to be a pilot.
I know that phrases like 'it'll work out in the end" sound like cliches that don't apply to you, however over a 45+ year career it's not really going to matter what you do straight after uni. As long as you don't give up I guarantee you 100% that you will eventually find yourself in job and situation you are comfortable with. The best advice I can give is to practice positive thinking and take any counseling options you have in that area. It will help you far far more in the long run than worry about what scheme you're able to get or how many jobs there are within a certain radius.
That could have come across quite bitchy...
Well, if you hadn't based your identity on here on releasing a sperm that just so happened to meet with a woman's egg. :eek:
Let me guess, in your days it was all hard graft, maths and science, and if you stepped out of line it was nothing short of the cane. Sorry that the 00s aren't agreeing with you
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For working in FE, I just apply to universities when applications open.
Thanks, I definitely agree with the bit in bold!
Someone in a thread on here yesterday was preaching to someone that all you have to do is "work hard to succeed" - clearly they were 8 years old
However I do know people who were rejected from things purely because they'd applied for them as a last minute option without any planning or doing anything in the background. Teaching for example requires work experience beforehand - the "formal" minimum is usually 14 days in one place, but most want you to have been at least two places and have more than that. Thus it's stuff like that that I have been trying to sort out and "plan" in advance. I'd hate to get turned down for opportunities, on something I could sort out now if that makes sense.
I'm alright teaching wise as have got a lot of experience under my belt, and am working in September too in a college and high school.
It's more other stuff... like what if I decide I want a job in HR or something in June. Or work in advertising/PR. That sorta stuff. I don't think I want to do them now, but I might do... I guess I wanna spread myself out so I'm not closing any doors before I even graduate
There's 9 months between now and June so I have some room/time to do things in preparation. Surely it just makes practical sense to do stuff now rather than waiting until June.
That's what I mean by planning. Not necessarily planning my life out, or making concrete decisions, but making sure I do a few things here and there between now and June so I have possible options.... rather than doing it the other way round and having to try and rush everything in May/June next year. I don't wanna think "well I can't do that because X" or "I can't do that because Y" -- well, not if I can achieve/solve X and Y before June. If I can't then it's fair enough, but if it's simple enough to "fix" then you know... makes sense to do it this year!
Bitchy perhaps, but still quite true
You choose to do an 'easy' course with few job prospects at the end of it, and unsurprisingly are now struggling to find a job.
Even if you do the PGCE it's unlikely to lead to a Secondary School job, as your degree isn't any use for it - but you would be fine for Primary School, where the degree subject doesn't matter.
A short term 'solution' would be to go and do TEFL in a foreign country, I know a number of people who have done that and had a great time and experience.
A school acquaintance of my daughter did a Criminology degree, then went off to New Zealand working on a sheep farm - but now works in a Prison, I don't know if her Criminology degree helped her or not?, but is it something you have considered?.
I don't think people can quite comment on my degree unless they've also done it. History and English* generally seem to have quite a good rep among the older generation, which I assume you are a member of, for example; but I do triple the amount of hours per week than anyone I know doing History. It's also the only course I know where we did 4x 3000 word essays and 4x 3 hour exams. Oh and my exams aren't "seen" either like the ones The Perfectly Amazing In Every Way history students do.
Your attempt at a patronising comment means I haven't bothered reading the rest of your post - so it looks like you've wasted some time
EDIT: I just read the rest of your post for shits and giggles and LOL I chose an "easy" course and am struggling to find a job?
Looks like you didn't even finish primary school. Read the post again, smartarse, because I have another year to go and aren't even looking to get a job yet. You were that busy with your head in your arse that you couldn't even read what was in front of you
P.S. If I remember rightly, you're the guy whose daughter also goes to my uni? I wonder if I've ever bumped in to Ms. Goodwin before. Hmmmmmm.
The problem is they are right, your degree course means that it's going to be a hard slog for you to get a job, because rightly or wrongly it is considered a 'soft' subject. You mock history, but it's still considered a solid classic subject and the skills required stand you in good stead for other jobs. Maybe you could use the transferable skills from your degree to help you in a job other than teaching?
No, I think you misunderstand the point of the thread. It isn't going to be hard for me to get a job because of my degree, there are two separate issues:
- It's going to be hard to get a job, period.
- And it's going to be hard to get a good job.
I don't feel like I am in any way, shape, or form disadvantaged by my degree whatsoever - if people think I am then that's good for them but I have absolutely no worries whatsoever about my degree. I'm not going to discuss it in great detail here but some of the people that taught me over the past two years have/had amazing careers; ones I would be more than happy to have myself and could only ever aspire to. And with all due respect, better careers than probably 90% of people on DS.
The only reason I mentioned my degree subject at all in this thread is because it is hard to get a teaching job (you know, the job I said I initially wanted to do) in my subject - actually scratch that - at my age range and subject. The two together = not many teaching jobs going.
So if you want you can ignore the part about my subject entirely - I don't think it makes any difference in the context of this thread. It was just their to add some oomph to my point about why I'm not 100% sure on teaching - I'm not 100% set on teaching because it is harder to get a job in FE and especially in subjects where the subject being taught isn't in demand.
I knew if I put "I'm not 100% sure on teaching" people would say "well teaching is one of those jobs where you NEED to be passionate about it" when I am passionate about it - the only thing holding me back is possibly not getting a job at the end of it. So I felt the need to add some context - the reason I am not 100% on teaching is because of the subject and age (sociology and FE).
That's only as far as teaching goes. Apart from that I do not feel my subject in any way disadvantages me, though perhaps others have their own opinion, I do not share them.
My friend who graduated last year in English Literature sells double glazing. A girl I know who did History of Art works as a nursery assistant. A girl I know who did Law works as a training supervisor for the council. None of their degrees are directly related to their jobs and to be honest, everyone knows this is how uni is these days (I assume people making silly comments are of a different generation where perhaps doing a certain course did = a certain job at the end of it).
There are very, VERY few undergrad courses that lead to a direct job in that area. I can only think of medicine, dentistry and veterinary medicine courses.
So people can keep their outdated views about hard and soft subjects to themselves because it makes no odds - I'm not necessarily looking for a job directly related to my degree and neither are 97% of university goers. I was asking about jobs and careers in general, of which there are millions.
I can't believe some people still think people who do English Literature go on to be authors/literature critics, or people who do art go on to be artists, or people who do music go on to play in an orchestra.
It hasn't been like that for at least the last 20 years.
This thread was about jobs/careers other than teaching - not about what subject I do. The only reason that was brought up *at all* was, well I already explained it in a paragraph up there. Go back and read it!
I've not once in this thread or anywhere else complained "oh noes, I won't be able to get a job with my degree!!!!111 I should have picked a proper subject! Woe is me!". I do not feel like that whatsoever. I just want suggestions and ideas and advice not some outdated opinions on my subject which I only mentioned for one reason, and it wasn't to complain that my subject = no jobs. There are millions of jobs I can do with my degree, I just need to get a more nuanced view so I can add a bit more direction to the next 9-10 months.
I'm sure some of the guest lecturers I've had over the years didn't feel disadvantaged by their subject choice (which is also mine). If they did I'm sure their 40k salary more than made up for it.
I'm not interested in social work unfortunately. I know someone doing it and it just isn't for me.
I'm not an overly caring person at all