While I completely understand where you're coming from I think this thread alone shows why proving a genetic link to homosexuality is important to so many - if there isn't a choice behind your sexuality then most of the arguments against homosexuality become nul and void.
I'm not sure which arguments you mean specifically so I don't know if I agree.
Is that not the whole debate???? Whether it's a choice or not!!!? And doesn't it being genetic confirms it's not a choice?
Are you having a serious discussion because I've just noticed you're disagreeing with whatever the other people are saying, no matter what they are saying!
This whole discussion about whether it's a choice or not is senseless because if my friends had a choice they would have choosen the way to not get disowned by their homophobic parents, shunned by our more narrow-minded friends and ridiculed at school. Just think about it.
Calm down you'll injure yourself ;-). It doesn't matter if its a choice or not. It would make no difference to most people with deeply held beliefs.
Calm down you'll injure yourself ;-). It doesn't matter if its a choice or not. It would make no difference to most people with deeply held beliefs.
Education would change and over time beliefs would too. In the 19th Century the majority of white British society saw black people as inferior who should be treated as slaves; now the minority are racist but the majority see everyone as equal. Things can change but it does take time.
The nature v nuture argument. Whether it is a choice and that homosexuals can be cured.
Proving it was natural wouldn't change the views of people who believe it can be changed based on religious beliefs. Various things are referred to as natural but discouraged in the Bible.
Education would change and over time beliefs would too. In the 19th Century the majority of white British society saw black people as inferior who should be treated as slaves; now the minority are racist but the majority see everyone as equal. Things can change but it does take time.
Religions don't change deeply held beliefs that frequently.
Calm down you'll injure yourself ;-). It doesn't matter if its a choice or not. It would make no difference to most people with deeply held beliefs.
Well considering the whole pretense of the discussion is whether gay people have a choice or not and someone like Evander has an uninformed view that they choose to do it and it can be fixed shows that there remains a large section of people who DO believe it's a choice. Therefore it's integral to the argument.
Also I'd just like to ask - what exactly are you debating 1Mickey? Because to me it seems like you're trolling - long fueling an argument that was inactive, disagreeing with whatever comment comes along in here, I have actually no idea what you are debating here or if there is even a debate here at all. I really do think you are disagreeing with people here for the sake of it.
Religions don't change deeply held beliefs that frequently.
The deep set religious people would not change their held belief, I agree. But I think society will change over time. Look at the HIV debate - EastEnders is a great example of this; Peggy would never be allowed to say to Mark what she said when first diagnosed now but people are now more educated and understanding of this. Education leads to Understanding leads to Change - but while the first is lacking the other two won't happen.
Well considering the whole pretense of the discussion is whether gay people have a choice or not and someone like Evander has an uninformed view that they choose to do it and it can be fixed shows that there remains a large section of people who DO believe it's a choice. Therefore it's integral to the argument.
Also I'd just like to ask - what exactly are you debating 1Mickey? Because to me it seems like you're trolling - long fueling an argument that was inactive, disagreeing with whatever comment comes along in here, I have actually no idea what you are debating here or if there is even a debate here at all. I really do think you are disagreeing with people here for the sake of it.
Oh here we go! Anyone who disagrees must be a troll .............
Well considering the whole pretense of the discussion is whether gay people have a choice or not and someone like Evander has an uninformed view that they choose to do it and it can be fixed shows that there remains a large section of people who DO believe it's a choice. Therefore it's integral to the argument.
Also I'd just like to ask - what exactly are you debating 1Mickey? Because to me it seems like you're trolling - long fueling an argument that was inactive, disagreeing with whatever comment comes along in here, I have actually no idea what you are debating here or if there is even a debate here at all. I really do think you are disagreeing with people here for the sake of it.
How is his viewpoint uninformed? Saying there is no choice is ALSO just a viewpoint. It is just as invalid as a group of anorexics pronouncing that X is fat, when they may not be.
How is his viewpoint uninformed? Saying there is no choice is ALSO just a viewpoint. It is just as invalid as a group of anorexics pronouncing that X is fat, when they may not be.
Well it's uninformed because gay people cannot be "fixed". There is nothing to fix.
The deep set religious people would not change their held belief, I agree. But I think society will change over time. Look at the HIV debate - EastEnders is a great example of this; Peggy would never be allowed to say to Mark what she said when first diagnosed now but people are now more educated and understanding of this. Education leads to Understanding leads to Change - but while the first is lacking the other two won't happen.
Society has already changed in that respect (in the west atleast). I don't see what's left.
What specific evidence are you looking for? That there isn't anything to fix?
The American Psychological Association in 1973 removed Homosexuality from it's list of diseases because it's not a disease. There isn't anything to treat.
What specific evidence are you looking for? That there isn't anything to fix?
The American Psychological Association in 1973 removed Homosexuality from it's list of diseases because it's not a disease. There isn't anything to treat.
Everyone called Jade Goody a racist with the whole Shilpa thing.. Maybe she just didnt like her, just cause she is indian doesnt make a difference!
Wasn't it the Indian based insults that made the difference?
Their general dislike of one another is normal, they simply didn't get on, not everyone does. The racism came from the form of attack Jade and her friends chose.
Yup, unfortunately these facts are totally ignored for a nice bit of bigotry.
And what facts was the decision based upon? There would have been a time when nobody would believe that there was a "psycho" gene. It is not just a matter of having the gene, you also have to be "turned".
And what facts was the decision based upon? There would have been a time when nobody would believe that there was a "psycho" gene. It is not just a matter of having the gene, you also have to be "turned".
"Lesbian, gay and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder."
And what facts was the decision based upon? There would have been a time when nobody would believe that there was a "psycho" gene. It is not just a matter of having the gene, you also have to be "turned".
What's the point in even talking to you? Even if it was 100% proven that there is a gay gene and that those who have it will 100% turn out to be gay, you would still find a way to dispute homosexuality and blame anyone that is for it on this supposed gay mafia that you keep referring back to.
I notice my question to you a few pages back has been conveniently ignored.
That old saying comes to mind, the inmates are running the asylum !. Let me break it down for you, that oppressive male dominating the female is why you and I are able to have life and type to one another. When homosexuals through their behaviour can biologically have children come back to me and we'll continue this conversation. All t that you typed is an emotional rant, but you and I know deep down not even you believe what your saying.
Homosexuals using arguments like animals are found to be gay is hilarious. Did they speak to a dog while it was humping a cuddly toy... Animals are animals ... Scientists know how animals think now? I'm sure the animals are saying leave us out of your madness.
If you can read minds then maybe you should be out putting your talents to good use rather than spending all your time posting arrogant provocative shite on an internet forum.
Some people are predatory in their behaviour like the heterosexual men you describe pushing women to have sex with them but that has nothing to do with sexuality, it's to do with their character.
Some gay people choose not to practice their sexuality and live as heterosexuals because they are scared of the consequences of being openly gay in a homophobia society.
This is more or less what I was getting at.
Ok I get you now. I was reponding to the point that people do not choose to be gay and I was highlighting that in my experiences, some gay men have tried to persuade me into a relationship or a one off but as another poster alluded to that as I know I'm not gay, I didn't take up the offers etc etc.
Re your latter point, yes I think that does happen too.
Comments
I'm not sure which arguments you mean specifically so I don't know if I agree.
Calm down you'll injure yourself ;-). It doesn't matter if its a choice or not. It would make no difference to most people with deeply held beliefs.
Education would change and over time beliefs would too. In the 19th Century the majority of white British society saw black people as inferior who should be treated as slaves; now the minority are racist but the majority see everyone as equal. Things can change but it does take time.
Proving it was natural wouldn't change the views of people who believe it can be changed based on religious beliefs. Various things are referred to as natural but discouraged in the Bible.
Religions don't change deeply held beliefs that frequently.
Well considering the whole pretense of the discussion is whether gay people have a choice or not and someone like Evander has an uninformed view that they choose to do it and it can be fixed shows that there remains a large section of people who DO believe it's a choice. Therefore it's integral to the argument.
Also I'd just like to ask - what exactly are you debating 1Mickey? Because to me it seems like you're trolling - long fueling an argument that was inactive, disagreeing with whatever comment comes along in here, I have actually no idea what you are debating here or if there is even a debate here at all. I really do think you are disagreeing with people here for the sake of it.
The deep set religious people would not change their held belief, I agree. But I think society will change over time. Look at the HIV debate - EastEnders is a great example of this; Peggy would never be allowed to say to Mark what she said when first diagnosed now but people are now more educated and understanding of this. Education leads to Understanding leads to Change - but while the first is lacking the other two won't happen.
Oh here we go! Anyone who disagrees must be a troll .............
Society has already changed in that respect (in the west atleast). I don't see what's left.
He mentioned he's a Christian, not that it was a secret.
The American Psychological Association in 1973 removed Homosexuality from it's list of diseases because it's not a disease. There isn't anything to treat.
http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx
Yup, unfortunately these facts are totally ignored for a nice bit of bigotry.
Everyone called Jade Goody a racist with the whole Shilpa thing.. Maybe she just didnt like her, just cause she is indian doesnt make a difference!
Wasn't it the Indian based insults that made the difference?
Their general dislike of one another is normal, they simply didn't get on, not everyone does. The racism came from the form of attack Jade and her friends chose.
Great point.
It's from the link I put in my post.
What's the point in even talking to you? Even if it was 100% proven that there is a gay gene and that those who have it will 100% turn out to be gay, you would still find a way to dispute homosexuality and blame anyone that is for it on this supposed gay mafia that you keep referring back to.
I notice my question to you a few pages back has been conveniently ignored.
If you can read minds then maybe you should be out putting your talents to good use rather than spending all your time posting arrogant provocative shite on an internet forum.
Ok I get you now. I was reponding to the point that people do not choose to be gay and I was highlighting that in my experiences, some gay men have tried to persuade me into a relationship or a one off but as another poster alluded to that as I know I'm not gay, I didn't take up the offers etc etc.
Re your latter point, yes I think that does happen too.