Doc Martin (Part 17 — Spoilers)

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  • carol_averycarol_avery Posts: 232
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    NewPark wrote: »
    For a lot of reasons, I don't think Doc Martin will translate well to American media, but whatever it is, I doubt it will be schlock. It might even be interesting in its own right, who knows?

    Maybe it'll be Doc Martina?
  • BloodphobiaBloodphobia Posts: 448
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    Hello Lia Williams
  • carol_averycarol_avery Posts: 232
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    Hello Lia Williams

    while she could definitely pull it off, I do think the actors have to appeal and/or be American (and younger....) Maybe Mia Wasikowski?
  • BloodphobiaBloodphobia Posts: 448
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    Lia Williams is younger than Martin Clunes and looks much younger and she can do US accent. Older Doc Martina falls for 10 year younger teacher. They have baby with gestational carrier and donated eggs and teacher's sperm. Rinse and repeat
  • carol_averycarol_avery Posts: 232
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    Lia Williams is younger than Martin Clunes and looks much younger and she can do US accent. Older Doc Martina falls for 10 year younger teacher. They have baby with gestational carrier and donated eggs and teacher's sperm. Rinse and repeat

    Lia is 51 yr old.

    In any event, it needs to be an American version.... with american actress/actors IMHO to have any chance of being sucesfully Americanized
  • BloodphobiaBloodphobia Posts: 448
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    Mia Wasikowska is Australian. Would she have the doc role or the Louisa role?
  • carol_averycarol_avery Posts: 232
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    Mia Wasikowska is Australian. Would she have the doc role or the Louisa role?

    I was thinking Doc Martina.... any other actresses come to mind?
  • mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    Maybe it'll be Doc Martina?

    I really hope not!
  • ZarwenZarwen Posts: 249
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    I really hope not!

    Aw, why not, Mona? This idea is different enough not to suffer too much from comparison. I think the idea of a Doc Martina moving from LA to Portlandia would be hilarious! Make the boyfriend the weird one, and Doc Martina sets out to find a cure for what ails him! I would watch, at least for a few episodes anyway. :p
  • carol_averycarol_avery Posts: 232
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    Zarwen wrote: »
    Aw, why not, Mona? This idea is different enough not to suffer too much from comparison. I think the idea of a Doc Martina moving from LA to Portlandia would be hilarious! Make the boyfriend the weird one, and Doc Martina sets out to find a cure for what ails him! I would watch, at least for a few episodes anyway. :p

    maybe the love interest will be the stoner school teacher in Portlandia-like town. Doc Martina is confronted w/ medical marijuana issues among other items (like how pts pay for medical care)!
  • Ms_SarahMs_Sarah Posts: 301
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    Martin & Louisa's Emotional Tank

    We watched the marriage begin and then crumble in S6. If you had to briefly identify what you think was a vital component missing or absent in the marriage for Louisa, what would you identify that to be and would it be of pivotal importance to the marriage rebounding.

    My answer for Louisa: Emotional intimacy
    I believe this to be fundamental and would be pivotal to the marriage and/or their successful reconciliation.

    I'll let the Martin enthusaists chime in for him. If I had to identify what was important for him and/or somewhat lacking, my
    unstudied guess would be enouragement, acceptance, and patience. How would Martin answer? LOL - orderliness and structure.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    FWIW: This isn't an exercise in laying blame or taking critical aim. It was prompted by a genuine curiousity as to
    what was vitally lacking in the marriage for each of them and could it be the deal-breaker in any attempt at a successful reconciliation.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    Ms_Sarah wrote: »
    Martin & Louisa's Emotional Tank

    We watched the marriage begin and then crumble in S6. If you had to briefly identify what you think was a vital component missing or absent in the marriage for Louisa, what would you identify that to be and would it be of pivotal importance to the marriage rebounding.

    My answer for Louisa: Emotional intimacy
    I believe this to be fundamental and would be pivotal to the marriage and/or their successful reconciliation.

    I'll let the Martin enthusaists chime in for him. If I had to identify what was important for him and/or somewhat lacking, my
    unstudied guess would be enouragement, acceptance, and patience. How would Martin answer? LOL - orderliness and structure.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    FWIW: This isn't an exercise in laying blame or taking critical aim. It was prompted by a genuine curiousity as to
    what was vitally lacking in the marriage for each of them and could it be the deal-breaker in any attempt at a successful reconciliation.

    I completely agree, as to what is going on with Louisa.

    In the scene, just before Margaret arrives, she asks why he didn't tell her about his blood phobia's return. And says, "but I'm your wife..." To me, that presaged big trouble ahead, as it dawns on Louisa that he is still behind his defenses, and can't let her in. And then we have the scene in E7 -- where she brings him breakfast, and he rebuffs her offers of help, and basically, her plea for him to let her in.

    At the end of S4 and S5, we saw his defenses temporarily shattered, and a connection on an emotional level. I think Louisa saw these moments as a breakthrough. He regrouped with lightening speed after S4 ending; it took longer after the Castle Scene, but within a few months, the door had closed again.

    So we know, I think, that Louisa has learned her lesson -- another emotional plea is not going to win her back. She has to see some sustained evidence that he "gets it" and can actually change. I don't know if he understands yet what is required of him.

    As for Martin -- well, he seems prepared to put up with just about anything if he can just be with Louisa. It will be interesting to see if he can bring himself to find any flaw or ask for any changes.
  • BloodphobiaBloodphobia Posts: 448
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    I am being very basic. Security is missing for Louisa. She could never count on her parents or possibly any other man to provide physical and emotional security. We saw each of her parents fail her and Danny Steele to whom she had to explain that her life is in Port Wenn. This is where she feels secure with a village as her support system

    Martin has to provide that security by showing he cares for her and won't abandon her for his clocks or need for an intellectual life that excludes her. Louisa wants Martin to share everything with her to make her secure in his love for her. Her famous request that he ask her to marry him again the morning after says exactly what Louisa needs from the marriage. Endless reassurance that she is important in his life and that he needs her

    New Park is right. Martin is good at the grand gestures: impromptu engagement, renouncing London for Louisa and the baby, saving the baby from a kidnapper, saving Louisa from her medical crisis. But his follow through is horrible. He has to translate these big plays into daily ways to engage Louisa and assure her she is the center of his universe (IMHO this is what she wants).

    Martin spent most of Series 5 and 6 looking exasperated. He is trying his best and Louisa still won't stick around. He has to redefine his life to allow another person inside. He has lived a solitary life for -- at the least -- 45 years. Now he has a needy wife and child who want things from him that he may not even understand. James is easy because he can cover the physical demands of a baby as if he were caring for a patient. He understands that babies need emotional support, thus the reading and holding. Despite his precarious style in carrying James, he seems more connected to him than Louisa

    I'm not sure Martin yet knows what he needs from the marriage. He had little love in his life, presumably until Louisa, and may have thought all he needed was love. But how does that manifest itself? Is it physical intimacy? Daily gestures like Louisa making his first cup of coffee (or vice versa)? Each learning more about the other's interests and showing some willingness to at least talk about them?

    If the Port Gaverene beach picnic is a strategy to save their marriage, the marriage counselor should be fired faster than the sweaty nanny.
  • Ms_SarahMs_Sarah Posts: 301
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    NewPark wrote: »
    I completely agree, as to what is going on with Louisa.

    In the scene, just before Margaret arrives, she asks why he didn't tell her about his blood phobia's return. And says, "but I'm your wife..." To me, that presaged big trouble ahead, as it dawns on Louisa that he is still behind his defenses, and can't let her in. And then we have the scene in E7 -- where she brings him breakfast, and he rebuffs her offers of help, and basically, her plea for him to let her in.

    At the end of S4 and S5, we saw his defenses temporarily shattered, and a connection on an emotional level. I think Louisa saw these moments as a breakthrough. He regrouped with lightening speed after S4 ending; it took longer after the Castle Scene, but within a few months, the door had closed again.

    So we know, I think, that Louisa has learned her lesson -- another emotional plea is not going to win her back. She has to see some sustained evidence that he "gets it" and can actually change. I don't know if he understands yet what is required of him.

    As for Martin -- well, he seems prepared to put up with just about anything if he can just be with Louisa. It will be interesting to see if he can bring himself to find any flaw or ask for any changes.

    LOL, I wanted you, in particular, to answer for him! What is lacking in the marriage for Martin and how
    would he function better in the relationship. What would be required of Louisa in order to fill his "tank."

    Is it simply accepting him - flaws and all? Does he need encouragement? More respect? More order? I think Martin could be the ideal student for her. He did admit he needs her help. The problem with Louisa is that she needs to change her technique. The scene in the bed with lavender oil was sweet and I liked her approach. A little more of that - an ease of charm and gentle guidance
    in most situations would go a very long way in helping the man.

    For all that, I still can't sufficiently answer my own question - what was significant to Martin, what was vitally lacking in the marriage for him and would it be a game-changer.

    Btw: Thanks always, NewPark. I appreciate your insightfulness and always steady "hand" with these two characters. I was unfair to you in one of my posts when I wrongly characterized your answer....you are an esteemed presence (and a delight) on this board.
  • Ms_SarahMs_Sarah Posts: 301
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    Very insightful. Security is, at her core, an issue - along with her need for emotional
    intimacy (glaringly absent) and might be the game-changer.

    In general, physical intimacy is key for most guys. Martin, he's an odd one. You could be right - it could be as simple as daily gestures and sharing an interest or hobby; and, therein lies the key or the intimacy he needs.

    Btw: I miss the babies (I've changed my mind) and Buddy ;-)
    Can they do a show with just the babes and Buddy ?
  • carol_averycarol_avery Posts: 232
    Forum Member
    Ms_Sarah wrote: »
    Very insightful. Security is, at her core, an issue - along with her need for emotional
    intimacy (glaringly absent) and might be the game-changer.

    In general, physical intimacy is key for most guys. Martin, he's an odd one. You could be right - it could be as simple as daily gestures and sharing an interest or hobby; and, therein lies the key or the intimacy he needs.

    Btw: I miss the babies (I've changed my mind) and Buddy ;-)
    Can they do a show with just the babes and Buddy ?

    I think JH is going to have to LOVE dogs and this will drive DM crazy (crazier?)

    I disagree w/ L needing "security". She was brave enough to have the baby on her own. Brave and secure enough to return unmarried and pregnant to her village and to "face the music". Brave and secure enough to continue living there even though DM was involved with Edith. Secure enough to leave DM to go to Spain on holiday to think things through. She's not looking for security from DM, IMHO. She's looking for deep emotional romantic connection w/ DM (and has been satisfied w/ only getting those moments here and there) .
  • earlgrey152earlgrey152 Posts: 94
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    Martin needs Louisa to be clear, honest, and upfront with her requests and desires. She cannot rely on him to "guess" or to read an underlying meaning. He takes things at face value, and unless she communicates very clearly and directly, he's simply not going to get it.

    Case(s) in point (and I'm sure there are others):

    1) When she tries to get him to ask her out for drinks

    2) When she asks him if he's attending Joe's party at Carrie Wilson's hotel

    3) When she returns to Portwenn, pregnant, and says that she doesn't expect any support from him (this is a big one, IMO, as she wanted him to *want* to be involved, but couldn't bring herself to ask, due to fear of rejection)

    4) When she reveals that she did want a fancy honeymoon, but didn't even bother mentioning it until they are lost in a forest/wood

    5) When she asks him to be more sociable at the school concert in S6E2, without specifying whom she would actually want to invite (certainly not Dennis the trustee with a drinking problem)

    It will likely feel clumsy and forced for Louisa to be so direct in her communication, as she is used to relying on social cues and would likely think (even subconsciously) that if Martin truly loved her, he would just inherently "know" what she needed.

    Instead, she'll have to say things like, "I need to hear you say "I love you" at least once a day", and "When we are at a social event, I need you to smile, and not point out anyone's physical maladies", and "I like it when you hold my hand while we are walking. Please do that more often".

    I honestly believe that if Martin has clear communication from Louisa, he would absolutely do what she asks. He adores her, but he finds her befuddling at best and incomprehensible at worst.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    Ms_Sarah wrote: »
    LOL, I wanted you, in particular, to answer for him! What is lacking in the marriage for Martin and how
    would he function better in the relationship. What would be required of Louisa in order to fill his "tank."

    Is it simply accepting him - flaws and all? Does he need encouragement? More respect? More order? I think Martin could be the ideal student for her. He did admit he needs her help. The problem with Louisa is that she needs to change her technique. The scene in the bed with lavender oil was sweet and I liked her approach. A little more of that - an ease of charm and gentle guidance
    in most situations would go a very long way in helping the man.

    For all that, I still can't sufficiently answer my own question - what was significant to Martin, what was vitally lacking in the marriage for him and would it be a game-changer.

    Btw: Thanks always, NewPark. I appreciate your insightfulness and always steady "hand" with these two characters. I was unfair to you in one of my posts when I wrongly characterized your answer....you are an esteemed presence (and a delight) on this board.

    Thanks, Ms_Sarah.

    I don't think anything would be a deal-breaker for Martin, where Louisa is concerned. I think he would doggedly hang in under almost any circumstances, because he is so besotted with her.

    That said, his functioning in their marriage clearly deteriorated over time. We can go with Aunt Ruth's explanation that he "shut down" presumably b/c his neuroses caused him to sabotage something he really wanted, as surgery. Or, possibly, in addition, he shut down because he couldn't cope with losing control of his environment; sharing his space, which became noiser and much less orderly. And he didn't know how to bring himself to express this to Louisa. She was preoccupied and gave off confusing signals and he felt lost and perhaps anxious.

    Anyway, I think he would function better if a) Louisa expressed herself clearly, calmly and directly. He's pretty literal minded. b) If he was able to articulate his own needs and feelings more directly. That means Louisa staying calm and not taking things personally or otherwise increasing his anxiety level when he does try to break radio silence.

    Remember when his awful mom showed up? He clearly did not want to let her in, yet was quite passive about this with Louisa. She couldn't have known how hateful the woman was, yet he never told her, or indicated how much her presence was upsetting to him. She's only slightly more of a mind-reader than he is, so he needs to let her in on some stuff.

    BTW, I do think Louisa could have pressed harder, and earlier, for him to figure out what was behind his funk. She was busy, and I think she genuinely respects his boundaries and tries generally not to press him emotionally.

    (I can hear the protests now: what?! This about a woman who pressed him to attend social events and story hours that he hated? etc. But I think there's a difference between asking for some behaviors and getting into his emotional space.)
  • Ms_SarahMs_Sarah Posts: 301
    Forum Member
    I think JH is going to have to LOVE dogs and this will drive DM crazy (crazier?)

    I disagree w/ L needing "security". She was brave enough to have the baby on her own. Brave and secure enough to return unmarried and pregnant to her village and to "face the music". Brave and secure enough to continue living there even though DM was involved with Edith. Secure enough to leave DM to go to Spain on holiday to think things through. She's not looking for security from DM, IMHO. She's looking for deep emotional romantic connection w/ DM (and has been satisfied w/ only getting those moments here and there) .

    Bphobia makes a good point about her past. In this instance, one could interchange the word stability for security. I don't know that I agree at all that she is endlessly seeking his love and attention, etc. She couldn't rely on the people she needed the most. As a result, she strived to become independent and self-reliant. Louisa is still, in some sense, that fragile young girl that wanted a stable (as in secure) family.

    You're spot on, Carol. She was focused and determined to raise the baby with or without him and dare I say rather content and happy! (ducks)
  • Ms_SarahMs_Sarah Posts: 301
    Forum Member
    Martin needs Louisa to be clear, honest, and upfront with her requests and desires. She cannot rely on him to "guess" or to read an underlying meaning. He takes things at face value, and unless she communicates very clearly and directly, he's simply not going to get it.

    Case(s) in point (and I'm sure there are others):

    1) When she tries to get him to ask her out for drinks

    2) When she asks him if he's attending Joe's party at Carrie Wilson's hotel

    3) When she returns to Portwenn, pregnant, and says that she doesn't expect any support from him (this is a big one, IMO, as she wanted him to *want* to be involved, but couldn't bring herself to ask, due to fear of rejection)

    4) When she reveals that she did want a fancy honeymoon, but didn't even bother mentioning it until they are lost in a forest/wood

    5) When she asks him to be more sociable at the school concert in S6E2, without specifying whom she would actually want to invite (certainly not Dennis the trustee with a drinking problem)

    It will likely feel clumsy and forced for Louisa to be so direct in her communication, as she is used to relying on social cues and would likely think (even subconsciously) that if Martin truly loved her, he would just inherently "know" what she needed.

    Instead, she'll have to say things like, "I need to hear you say "I love you" at least once a day", and "When we are at a social event, I need you to smile, and not point out anyone's physical maladies", and "I like it when you hold my hand while we are walking. Please do that more often".

    I honestly believe that if Martin has clear communication from Louisa, he would absolutely do what she asks. He adores her, but he finds her befuddling at best and incomprehensible at worst.

    Our poor Martin and he does need her direction, I agree.
    I love the hypothetical conversation. Now that is a scene I would
    love to watch. Too funny
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    We heard a while ago that Peter Kronk would appear as a young student "shadowing" DM, or some such. Today the first pictures appeared of a young man that some are sure is in fact Peter. I have high hopes for him -- he was pretty intuitive about Louisa and Martin before.
  • Ms_SarahMs_Sarah Posts: 301
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    NewPark wrote: »
    Thanks, Ms_Sarah.

    I don't think anything would be a deal-breaker for Martin, where Louisa is concerned. I think he would doggedly hang in under almost any circumstances, because he is so besotted with her.

    That said, his functioning in their marriage clearly deteriorated over time. We can go with Aunt Ruth's explanation that he "shut down" presumably b/c his neuroses caused him to sabotage something he really wanted, as surgery. Or, possibly, in addition, he shut down because he couldn't cope with losing control of his environment; sharing his space, which became noiser and much less orderly. And he didn't know how to bring himself to express this to Louisa. She was preoccupied and gave off confusing signals and he felt lost and perhaps anxious.

    Anyway, I think he would function better if a) Louisa expressed herself clearly, calmly and directly. He's pretty literal minded. b) If he was able to articulate his own needs and feelings more directly. That means Louisa staying calm and not taking things personally or otherwise increasing his anxiety level when he does try to break radio silence.

    Remember when his awful mom showed up? He clearly did not want to let her in, yet was quite passive about this with Louisa. She couldn't have known how hateful the woman was, yet he never told her, or indicated how much her presence was upsetting to him. She's only slightly more of a mind-reader than he is, so he needs to let her in on some stuff.

    BTW, I do think Louisa could have pressed harder, and earlier, for him to figure out what was behind his funk. She was busy, and I think she genuinely respects his boundaries and tries generally not to press him emotionally.

    (I can hear the protests now: what?! This about a woman who pressed him to attend social events and story hours that he hated? etc. But I think there's a difference between asking for some behaviors and getting into his emotional space.)

    Good point. Louisa does (at times) over-react. That said...

    They have had a combative relationship and their both very opinionated. He was never shy with her when he threw a "punch" or a dig at her. He can say the most insulting things to her and with a straight face ! She is in the habit of reacting and becoming defensive. She needs to develop a thicker skin and practice patience. He needs to check the overbearing behavior and insulting barbs. Martin may have difficulty telling her what he needs but, in the past, never held back from telling her anything about anything !! He was very vocal and made no excuses for it.

    None of the above is going to happen because that would be a different show. Martin can't change (cough). She has to accept the quirky and tightly-wound Martin. She has to grow a thicker skin (she has, to some degree). These two need to grow up and do the work. Argh.

    Random thought: I have trouble accepting the theory (Ruth's) that he doesn't believe he deserves her.

    Random thought No. 2: I think the wounded Martin of S6 is/was a very different Martin of past seasons. My point? Eh - I just say random things sometimes; probably have grown too weary (lazy) to make any correlation to the above messages.
    That's why we need you. :cool:
  • Ms_SarahMs_Sarah Posts: 301
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    I'm not reading spoilers...

    Are folks here (anyone) happy reading the spoiler. Good? Bad?
  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    Ms_Sarah wrote: »
    Bphobia makes a good point about her past. In this instance, one could interchange the word stability for security. I don't know that I agree at all that she is endlessly seeking his love and attention, etc. She couldn't rely on the people she needed the most. As a result, she strived to become independent and self-reliant. Louisa is still, in some sense, that fragile young girl that wanted a stable (as in secure) family.

    You're spot on, Carol. She was focused and determined to raise the baby with or without him and dare I say rather content and happy! (ducks)

    This is such a foreign concept to me. He seems to be such a reclusive with a nasty personality...despite the fact Louisa found something attractive about him.....she was worried, but convinced that when she showed up 6 months pregnant that he, in his lonely desperation, would take her back. She had no clue about being a single Mom...and continued her guilessness regarding it well into Series 6. Then.....here is Edith...the monkey wrench of all monkey wrenches.....right into her plans. Thus began the dance that was S5 and the descent which was series 6. Normal people can't play that "Guess what I REALLY want game!"

    Louisa needs to tell him clearly what she wants....which she tried to do when she asked him to go for a long weekend...very true, although his mental illness kept him from going. But the "Guess what I really want" game has to go...in every aspect.

    I can't help but feel that DM seriously needs to do some individual work and psychotherapy. If they are just pursuing marriage counseling I'm very disappointed, because that's just barking up the wrong tree in this situation. It's been quiet in PI, so lots of indoor action is going on. Who knows what they are cooking up.
  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    Ms_Sarah wrote: »
    I'm not reading spoilers...

    Are folks here (anyone) happy reading the spoiler. Good? Bad?

    Extremely interesting...probably good. Big blast from the past. You'll like it.
This discussion has been closed.