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Advice about shared housing
My daughter is at uni away from home and shares a house with three other girls, three weeks ago one of the girls caused a chip pan fire in the middle of the night, everyone got out safely but the kitchen is condemned including the boiler which provides hot water and heating , and the cooker is not working or washing machine, the landlord has done nothing, he says he's waiting for the insurance and the letting agent are saying "speak to the landlord" In the mean time she is in a freezing house, with no working kitchen or hot water, if any DS users could help re her rights would be appreciated
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Leaving the tenants without heating and cooking facilities for three weeks in the depths of winter is unacceptable as this would be classed as an emergency I think. For non-urgent repairs 2 to 4 weeks wait is acceptable. The girls should phone a local Shelter advisor (see last para below) or visit a local CAB immediately (taking all the relevant documentation and details of any conversations and especially pictures) and not wait any longer for the landlord/letting agent.
Read carefully and thoroughly through this section about repairs in private lets from Shelter which will advise you of your daughter's and her co-tenants rights and how to go about reporting to the landlord and if necessary contacting the local council: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/repairs_in_private_lets
Additionally it is worth noting that landlords have extra legal responsibilities in shared housing, and more so if the property is licensed as a House of Multiple Occupation (HMO). Two of those responsibilities are that 'there are adequate cooking and washing facilities' and 'communal areas and shared facilities are clean and in good repair': http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting/about_private_renting/shared_houses_and_flats. Your daughter or one of the others can check with the local council to see if the property is licensed as an HMO.
You didn't mention in your OP whether smoke detectors were fitted. If not this could be a breach of fire and safety regs. The escape route and fire doors may also be relevant. Make sure that one of the girls buys a fire blanket to keep in the kitchen in case of chip pan fires, and all of them know how to use it: http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_st?fst=as%3Aoff&keywords=kitchen+fire+blanket&qid=1422935331&rh=n%3A79903031%2Ck%3Akitchen+fire+blanket&sort=popularity-rank
Also I would advise your daughter and her friends to read all Shelter's advice about private renting via the private renting homepage, and here you can search for advice in your daughter's local area: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting
The landlord hasn't left them without heat of other facilities, there was a fire, fortunately the girls weren't hurt.
Although a careless avoidable accident the girls have effectively made/left themselves homeless, that is not the fault of the LL.
While he should carry insurance for such occurrence he may well be waiting for insurance to kick in, to get there act together.
He should not be taking any more rent from the girls, neither should anyone be living in the property without the basic facilities.
But he is not responsible for re-homing them.
He may in fact have a claim against the girls, not for putting right but for lost income and any further inconvenience.
Housing law may take a different view for HA and local housing tenants.
Even if the property wasn't registered as a HMO and should have been, as serious as that is, ( and would more then likely negate any claim he may have had and that might include his building insurance ), and the LL would face criminal charges, they can't make the LL put things right in an instance but neither should anyone be living in the property or rent taken under such circumstances.
Even to minimal HMO standard, it would not have prevented the fire.
LL should be talking to his insurers, the girls should be looking elsewhere.
Three weeks after a kitchen fire for most people is not always an instant fix, there will be other fire damage, including if fire brigade was called and smoke damage.
And if the property isn't HMO, they can't live there anyway until the property is brought up to spec', then re-let.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/responsibility_for_repairs/repairs_in_rented_homes_-_whos_responsible_for_what
Despite the first quote I would have thought there was a requirement that the property has to meet minimum regulations even if the tenant has to pay for it.
Thanks for the info. I see that I made a mistake and therefore I'm very sorry alimi. I think it's the first time we've had a fire caused by the tenants, and I stupidly always tend to side with the tenants, as it's usually the landlord who hasn't carried out repairs.
Hopefully if the girls have gone for professional free advice today, the advisor will have already told them how things lie, and if they read the Shelter stuff they will be more aware of what to do in future, but I apologise and have made note of your link c4rv and won't make the same mistake again.
Although others have given some good advice regarding professional help, one other avenue is going through the University's Student Accommodation Office for help.
Was the house through them, i.e. on their approved Landlord List, because if so, that may give them more leverage in getting things done? The SAO may also be able to help your daughter in temporary accommodation until the repairs have been done.
Thanks, have told her to ask at uni today, things have got worse, she arrived back there today to find decorators in and one of them told her they have found asbestos, the letting agent have said that he should provide her with a bed and breakfast as he didn't give notice of the work being done but he is apparently on holiday and not answering his phone
Oh lordy, that's all they need is asbestos. I hope the SAO at the University can help her find something temporary in their accommodation, as usually there are odd spare places available at this time of the academic year, due to fall-outs over the Christmas holidays.
The way you do your research is as good as anyone I have ever know on most forums.
Nothing wrong with your info,--- just mostly not applicable in this case.
Watch for the gaps in people's threads, not that it does me any good, I'm constantly falling through them.
It would appear you didn't have all the information to hand anyway, the LL far from doing nothing is doing things.
And now Asbestos ,--good grief.
And yet the original thread was all about the LL doing nothing.
No wonder good LLs baton down the hatches.
And why a decorator would tell a tenant they had found asbestos is beyond me, the LL, should shoot him first then deal with the asbestos.
Of course it could be the LL is not happy to have the girls back and is trying it on with his own little scare tactics.
Be that as it may, if there is asbestos or a hint of it why would your daughter wish to live there, as a parent why would you want her living in such a property?
Had to smile tho', the LL has no doubt submitted his insurance claim and he's gone on holiday.
It's not an experience she is likely to forget in a hurry.
Do you know if the property was let through the university, they MAY be able to assist. Also did she have any insurance as it quite possible for the landlord to attempt to reclaim his losses from your daughter and fellow house mates. I assume joint tenancy so they will all be liable for the damages.
Property was let through private letting agency and uni are not being much help, Shelter have said he could take all the girls to court and that they have to ensure they keep up their rental payments as it is possible he will try to force them out, he may also be able to get them out anyway by going to court and saying he needs the property vacated to do the repairs. All the other girls have gone back to parents but my daughter works part time to afford rent etc so could lose her job, Sorting out a B and B is probably our only option tonight
Yes fire was three weeks ago and yesterday she found out about the asbestos when she went back after a couple of days back with me as she had to get back to work and uni, workmen had been sent in, not sure whether by the landlord or insurance company and they told her, to be fair to the landlord we think the asbestos is above the kitchen ceiling which would not have been disturbed had there not been a fire, just worried that she could end up liable for a whole heap of damages.
Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful she is alive and well, it makes me shudder to think what could have happened
Yes I thing we can all understand your relief.
Yes the LL may well pursue for any loss of income, and that issue may come back and bite the girls.
Should the LL take this action, while he may not have known, a word about the asbestos may make him reconsider.
But now LL does know, to bring it up to HMO standard, the asbestos needs removing.
Do you want your daughter,--does your daughter want to live in a property knowing the possibility asbestos exists?
Having said that I'm sure there are rules about renting a property with known asbestos.
Yes Shelter said the girls could be held liable but a word about the asbestos may make him back off so your advice is sound and fingers crossed that is the case, my daughter is not the lead tenant and all the girls have been home with parents for most of the time unless they have to pop back for uni but have gone straight back, so makes communication difficult but the main tenant said the insurance company have declared it uninhabitable, problem is my silly teen was messaging me this morning and I thought she was with the friend I thought she was staying with last night then she let slip she was back there and I suspect she went back there last night, as she doesn't finish work til 3 am
The house is on three floors with the lower ground open plan and containing main living room, kitchen and one of the bedrooms, the landlord had someone install a fire door a couple of weeks before the fire and one of the girls heard him say to the fitter that pre installing that the girls would never get out if there was a fire but my daughter heard that second hand from one of the other girls to be fair to him so I'm not sure how true that is
No she's away at Uni, she has been home when she can, if no work and Uni and she still has her bedroom here, cleans out the whole cupboard when she's here lol, I swear she knows when I've done a food shop and is suddenly on the bus, or should I say three buses, four hours home, problem is she is on a zero hours contract and needs the money to afford to supplement her living costs and rent, the other girls can afford not to work so it hasn't been a problem as they are in their third year so most work is done independently, on the plus side she spent all day in the library completing her first semesters work and has found a friend to kip down with tonight
If it is 3 buses and 4 hours home i think that will be difficult for them to manage twice a day