As far as I'm aware, M was always male before Judi, Q was always older than Bond before Ben and Moneypenny was always white before Naomie.
How did the franchise suffer due to these changes?
Good point. Why then would the franchise suffer because Bond himself is black?
Although I think we need to see Moneypenny and Q more before we can judge, it did feel odd at first seeing a geeky Q
As I said as long a sit makes sense why not I love Doctor Who it's one of my all time favourite TV shows and if he regenerates black or female it won't bother me at all.
I've lived and breathed Doctor Who since 1973, if they cast a woman I wont watch it anymore, if they cast a black actor, I wouldn't like it at all.
I would have thought people would want the very best actor possible to play the part in the terms of shows I like I want the best not 2nd best because they happened to be white or black and if possible gender makes no difference either.
Its not just about acting ability. I think that Elba can act Brosnan under the table but Brosnan fitted the role better and I would choose him over Elba every time. I don't even like Craig's blond hair. Bond is white british with dark hair and should be cast accordingly imo.
Tell you what, lets talk about recasting Lt Uhura from Star Trek, the Will Smith character from the fresh prince of bell air, Benson, Red from Shawshank Redemption, Virgil Tibbs, John Coffey, Storm from X-Men with white actors for any sequel or remake, would that be ok?
Not Virgil Tibbs. You would have to be dense not to see why it's not a good idea to change his ethnicity to white if the time setting stays same in a remake. The change will kill the purpose of his existence.
The core of Tibbs's existence is his determination to do his job in spite of discrimination and prejudice around him. Without that core, Tibbs is just another police detective.
You can't say that about other characters like Red from Shawshank Redemption, Storm, Benson, the Will Smith character and Bond. All those can be open to any ethnicity. Not the case with Virgil Tibbs.
Good point. Why then would the franchise suffer because Bond himself is black?
Although I think we need to see Moneypenny and Q more before we can judge, it did feel odd at first seeing a geeky Q
Not Virgil Tibbs. You would have to be dense not to see why it's not a good idea to change his ethnicity to white if the time setting stays same in a remake. The change will kill the purpose of his existence.
The core of Tibbs's existence is his determination to do his job in spite of discrimination and prejudice around him. Without that core, Tibbs is just another police detective.
.
Why not, Tibbs could be played white Jewish, the Jews also suffer from race discrimination and prejudice.
How about having the sheriff and all the original white characters as black and have the prejudice reversed.
Whilst I would certainly be curious to see Elba as Bond, I don't agree with the blanket statements that "It's fiction, it doesn't matter"
I kind of agree with Pull2Open that the author's vision was of a Caucasian European, and that the 50 year history of the Bond franchise has established a deeply ingrained identity and iconic image for the character, so much so that even those stylised pop art images of a black tuxedo, black bowtie and dark hair, instantly evoke the (obviously white) character of James Bond
Why not, Tibbs could be played white Jewish, the Jews also suffer from race discrimination and prejudice.
I think the audience may struggle with the idea of an entire deep-south town discriminating against a white Jewish detective.
Edited: I didn't see your edit, sorry. It can be done, but that would be missing the point of the story (in both the novel and the film). Have we seen Bond struggling over being white in any of his stories? No? Then what's the problem?
If anything, Bond has an issue with the UK's social class system. He's seen as a thug by those in the circles he moved in - as a kid and as an adult - and because of that, he's a loner. It was his determination and some could argue, ruthlessness that got him where he is now. In that sense, Bond has that in common with working-class and/or non-white people.
I think there's less of a case against a black Dr Who because AFAIK the programs weren't based on pre-existing canon, and seeing as he's an alien there's no reason why he couldn't regenerate into a black humanoid, unless it's been stated there are no dark skinned Gallifreyans.
It's a made up character, it can be whatever colour it wants! If he were playing a historical figure, then it would be best that the actor represent the ethnicity of that figure (a black Genghis Khan would be a bit strange), but for a made up character it really doesn't matter.
You can't say he is white British as he's a alien who can change his appearance and that appearance doesn't even have to be human .
That says quite a lot about you really
I don't agree with you so you insult me with a passive aggressive slight. It was only a matter of time I suppose, I've seen you do it to so many others!
I think there's less of a case against a black Dr Who because AFAIK the programs weren't based on pre-existing canon, and seeing as he's an alien there's no reason why he couldn't regenerate into a black humanoid, unless it's been stated there are no dark skinned Gallifreyans.
Not if you're going to stay true to the character.
Daniel Radcliffe was cast as Harry Potter partly because he looked like Harry Potter.
But even then they could change him to black even if they just said a spell was cast on him changing his appearance and he couldn't change back.
Plus given what I've read about J.K. Rowling's views on equality and her dislike of bigotry I don't think she would care if in the future when the films are remade (and we know they will be sooner or later) if they cast a black kid into the part
A black and/or female Doctor, cool but Idris Elba as the next 007 feel wrong. Maybe if the next movie introduced us to other 00s including non-white ones (that's the right phrase to use, right ?!) I'd feel differently about him taking the 'top job', or maybe I just think Colin Salmon would be a better fit.
I don't have an problem with a non white playing the role. My only concern would be the tone of the film. I really like the tone of the Daniel Craig films and Elba would be great if his films were to carry on down that route. I'd hate to see him as a cheesy Moore or Brosnan style Bond, for that they might as well get Andi Peters.
Comments
Good point. Why then would the franchise suffer because Bond himself is black?
Although I think we need to see Moneypenny and Q more before we can judge, it did feel odd at first seeing a geeky Q
He is indeed fictional.
I don't think any of the books mention him being black.
I've lived and breathed Doctor Who since 1973, if they cast a woman I wont watch it anymore, if they cast a black actor, I wouldn't like it at all.
Its not just about acting ability. I think that Elba can act Brosnan under the table but Brosnan fitted the role better and I would choose him over Elba every time. I don't even like Craig's blond hair. Bond is white british with dark hair and should be cast accordingly imo.
Not Virgil Tibbs. You would have to be dense not to see why it's not a good idea to change his ethnicity to white if the time setting stays same in a remake. The change will kill the purpose of his existence.
The core of Tibbs's existence is his determination to do his job in spite of discrimination and prejudice around him. Without that core, Tibbs is just another police detective.
You can't say that about other characters like Red from Shawshank Redemption, Storm, Benson, the Will Smith character and Bond. All those can be open to any ethnicity. Not the case with Virgil Tibbs.
See post #246, the points do not hold water.
Whyever not? He's an alien shapeshifter!
Why?
You can't say he is white British as he's a alien who can change his appearance and that appearance doesn't even have to be human .
That says quite a lot about you really
Why not, Tibbs could be played white Jewish, the Jews also suffer from race discrimination and prejudice.
How about having the sheriff and all the original white characters as black and have the prejudice reversed.
I kind of agree with Pull2Open that the author's vision was of a Caucasian European, and that the 50 year history of the Bond franchise has established a deeply ingrained identity and iconic image for the character, so much so that even those stylised pop art images of a black tuxedo, black bowtie and dark hair, instantly evoke the (obviously white) character of James Bond
I think the audience may struggle with the idea of an entire deep-south town discriminating against a white Jewish detective.
Edited: I didn't see your edit, sorry. It can be done, but that would be missing the point of the story (in both the novel and the film). Have we seen Bond struggling over being white in any of his stories? No? Then what's the problem?
If anything, Bond has an issue with the UK's social class system. He's seen as a thug by those in the circles he moved in - as a kid and as an adult - and because of that, he's a loner. It was his determination and some could argue, ruthlessness that got him where he is now. In that sense, Bond has that in common with working-class and/or non-white people.
Not if you're going to stay true to the character.
Daniel Radcliffe was cast as Harry Potter partly because he looked like Harry Potter.
I don't agree with you so you insult me with a passive aggressive slight. It was only a matter of time I suppose, I've seen you do it to so many others!
There have been black Time Lords and they don't even have to look human this was once a choice a Time Lady had (some can choose their appearance) http://l7world.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Doctor%20Who%20Romana%20regeneration.jpg so if silver/blue skinned alien is possible then a black human should be.
Plus as said now it's possible for gender change in the last series The Master regenerated into a female form so that means so can The Doctor
Really, why?
My brother lives in Tennessee, and the attitude I have seen toward Jews is as shocking and blatant as it is toward blacks.
Unless he drops his trousers, most won't know he's Jewish. :kitty:
I kid.
But even then they could change him to black even if they just said a spell was cast on him changing his appearance and he couldn't change back.
Plus given what I've read about J.K. Rowling's views on equality and her dislike of bigotry I don't think she would care if in the future when the films are remade (and we know they will be sooner or later) if they cast a black kid into the part
Would Judd Hirsch, Eugene Levy, Adam Sandler or Ben Stiller need to drop their trousers?
Why have a short, ginger-haired bulky Daniel Craig, then?
That would be a really tenuous reason to cast a black actor as Harry Potter.
If J.K. Rowling says making Harry Potter black or whatever in a reboot/remake is okay with her, would you accept the change?